Summer rugby?

durkadurka

Thought this was worthy of debate.....


Top English and French clubs ponder switching the domestic season to the summer
By Paul Ackford

A powerful group of the bigger English and French clubs are considering a move to summer rugby to minimise the disruption caused when their top players are absent on international duty.

The switch to a season starting in March and ending in November was debated during a number of meetings held following the recent Rugby World Cup in New Zealand.

“It was an idea which received support,” confirmed a Premiership club chairman who attended the discussions.

“The clubs stated that they never wanted to play important domestic fixtures during a World Cup again because, without their star performers, it was too damaging in terms of results and attendances. Some went further than that and included the Six Nations as a concern. Summer rugby was seen as a possible solution to the problem.”

The initiative has been on the back burner for a while but appears to be gaining support as the clubs seek to exert greater control over their own futures.

“We have talked about this at board level as part of the normal planning process,” said Mark McCafferty, chief executive of Premier Rugby, the body who represents the interests of England’s senior professional clubs.

“It opens up the possibility of the better weather, a different type of rugby and the ability to expand the crowds. But we need everybody to participate in the debate because you’ve got the June internationals and Lions tours which occur in that period. So it’s not a solution we can implement by ourselves.

"These things do take several years in their gestation, but there will come a point when an opportunity presents itself and you’ve got to be ready for that.”

However, some clubs are apprehensive about such a seismic shift to a sport which, at domestic level at least, is still struggling to establish itself financially.

Leicester have experienced supporters cancelling their season tickets this season and club officials are trying to establish whether the cause is the squeeze on leisure spending brought on by a worsening economic situation, or whether it is a reaction to the constant tinkering with kick-off times to accommodate television schedules.

“There is a strong belief in the importance of generating good habits around watching rugby, which involves staging games on regular days and at regular times around which people can plan,” one club owner said. “Summer rugby is something we have no experience of, and that is an issue.”

CIARAN_BOYLE

Increased competition with the GAA would a concern here in Ireland.

I don't really follow RL but didn't they only change to summer rugby a few years back? Did that have a major effect on their attendances and revenues?

I doubt we will see it happen to be honest. Although if it did I imagine that SA would be more interested in SA teams competiting in European competitions.

irishbucsfan

Really can't see it happening tbh.

thomond2006

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Increased competition with the GAA would a concern here in Ireland.

That would cause a big problem alright.

tolosenc

Playing games in the south of France in July and August? Are they mad?

CatFromHue

If the English and Welsh got rid of the LV=Cup then they'd have 4 less games to play per season. There still would have been games during the World Cup just none in September.

In the football the Eircom league changed to a summer format but that's a completely stand alone tournament. In rugby there would have to be changes to the domestic leagues, Hec Cup, 6 Nations, June tours, and November Internationals. The benefit of changing to a Feb-Oct season may end up not being much. Games will have to kick off later due to the temp, I'm not sure what the story with temp in France would be, people will be going away on holiday so this will affect crowds during July and August, and there will be no more Mini rugby at halftime as the clubs will be on their summer break. No More Mini's!!! What are we to do at half time without them?

An interesting fact is that the optimum temperature to run a marathon in is 11 deg C. Going above or below this will affect your performance.

Brendan97

if there was a rwc on some year, it would take away all the good players from the clubs in the crucial stages of the competitions. it would leave a player with the dillema -
club-qualify for HC or win league but miss out on international rugby
country-risk qualification to european competitions, get relegated or lose out on the league

muscleshirt

not a runner in ireland...not a hope of fielding under age rugby in summer with gaelic football and hurling

Zuffer

Terrible idea come up with by someone who is bad at maths.

The bottom line is that a full set of internationals (12, more in a WC year), league (22+, more for the French), HC (6-9) plus a proper break and pre-season adds up to more than 52 weekends. There is no schedule that allows a first choice international to play each of those games and get in a proper off season break - a break that every expert and player says is necessary for player welfare.

So, there has to be compromise somewhere. Right now, each league is doing it in different ways:
- The Irish do it by reducing the number of league (Pro12) games for their internationals, playing maybe 8-12 of the 22 league games.
- The French manage by trimming a little from each. They play one or two less internationals, they send reserve squads to some away games, especially in the HC, they have a shorter off season, with Top 14 continuing to June.
- The English 'manage' by having no one in charge and no defined rules resulting in constant club v country warfare. (Yes, I know some agreements have been put in place recently, but it sounds like the clubs want to tear it up again).

At least Ireland has a clearly defined priority of matches for its players.

daveharnett

durkadurka wrote: »

A powerful group of the bigger English and French clubs are considering a move to summer rugby to minimise the disruption caused when their top players are absent on international duty.

Domestic (and Heineken) competitions run roughly September to May inclusive. 9 Months a year.

Between hosting visiting SH tours, world cups, 6 Nations and summer tours, international rugby is played virtually year round.

Given that both hemispheres play the game, there is just no way to avoid lots and lots of overlapping schedules. Given that the amateur/youth game will still need to shut down in the summer for lots of practical reasons anyway, I don't see any benefit in moving the professional domestic season out of step.

jimbomalley

After another rubbish 6 nations game I thought this may be worth rehashing. It will never happen imo but would love to see the 6 nations moved to the summer to improve the quality of the game up north. We will never overcome the southern hemisphere dominance of the game until we can at least begin to play some semblance of this game I love and that means dry pitches (for the most part anyway...summer doesnt always = nice weather I know) to create the conditions anyway for fast ball

themont85

jimbomalley wrote: »

After another rubbish 6 nations game I thought this may be worth rehashing. It will never happen imo but would love to see the 6 nations moved to the summer to improve the quality of the game up north. We will never overcome the southern hemisphere dominance of the game until we can at least begin to play some semblance of this game I love and that means dry pitches (for the most part anyway...summer doesnt always = nice weather I know) to create the conditions anyway for fast ball

Yea New Zealand is dead dry in winter

jimbomalley

themont85 wrote: »

Yea New Zealand is dead dry in winter

Yes, thats exactly what I just said, New Zealand play great rugby coz it never rains.

Tigerandahalf

No guarantee of a dry summer. Our recent summers have been wetter than our winters.
Problem is you have clubs run by business people only interested in making money.
Must admit though the game today was another borefest.
Maybe it is time to reduce the playing numbers to 14. More space for fast players and skill. It will be interesting to see how successful the 7s competition becomes. Much more attractive on the eye.

backgreen

i always thought 10s rather than 7s would be more benefical to the developing rugby nations would make the transition easier to the 15s game

irishbucsfan

jimbomalley wrote: »

Yes, thats exactly what I just said, New Zealand play great rugby coz it never rains.

Couldn't be further from the truth! :pac:

CatFromHue

Nz has a different climate than Ireland. It's in general better and warmer (in general much nicer to be honest) but it's average rainfall/precipitation is much higher than Ireland (and far far far higher if you're from the west coast of the South Island!!)

Check out the stats from Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Climate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cork_(city)#Climate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellington#Climate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland#Climate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokitika#Climate

Zuffer

I think amateur rugby could benefit from a summer season. This winter, from November to February, the ground was almost always wet and muddy. This makes for bad games, and it also makes it harder to train. In general, pitches and training grounds are going to be in better condition in the summer.

Beery Eyed

Zuffer wrote: »

I think amateur rugby could benefit from a summer season. This winter, from November to February, the ground was almost always wet and muddy. This makes for bad games, and it also makes it harder to train. In general, pitches and training grounds are going to be in better condition in the summer.

Completely agree. Amateur rugby would be a much more attractive proposition if it wasn't played in constant quagmires & dark, cold conditions.

Even though it still rains a lot during the summer, there are nice long evenings and generally warmer conditions which would make evening training sessions & Friday night games much more attractive.

Personally I'm not sure if the top level of the game will change its season given that there are so many powerful stakeholders involved. However for the other levels below I think it makes perfect sense to consider the move. Skill levels are higher, fitness improves due to more open games & as a spectacle the game overall benefits a lot from the improved conditions.

I've played in Oz & SA during their winters and honestly it's a lot hotter than our summers so we've nothing to worry about on that front. The best thing of all about the nice conditions in those places was the enjoyment supporters could have at even mediocre levels of games. The clubs would have BBQ's & people would stay around all day for games. Matches would start early with the under age teams kicking things off, and finish in the late afternoon with the senior team. The standard of players was no better than junior rugby in Ireland, but the atmosphere during the day was great and the games were more open & exciting to watch.

backgreen

it would finish rugby in rural ireland,not a hope of competing with the GAA,

CatFromHue

People tend to go on holiday during the Summer months and students go home/abroad too so personal wise the move could make fielding teams in July/August messy.

awec

Wouldn't pitches be rock hard in summer time?

irishbucsfan

awec wrote: »

Wouldn't pitches be rock hard in summer time?

In a sunny climate yes. In Ireland... no!

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In a sunny climate yes. In Ireland... no!

I dunno, the ground can get pretty firm even in Ireland.

Beery Eyed

awec wrote: »

I dunno, the ground can get pretty firm even in Ireland.

I think that's precisely what we're looking for, no? In comparison to parts of Oz & SA during their winter, our pitches are more than soft enough during the summer. Players adapt quick enough anyway & to be honest it's a case of "harden up" if someone starts complaining about the ground being too firm.

With regard to people going on holidays during the summer & players not being available, etc. People go on holidays/work trips & have other commitments all year round. Also, as someone who has been involved with arranging a Junior club team for a couple of years in the past I can vouch for the fact that lads will have no shortage of excuses for missing training/games when it doesn't suit them, or sometimes just because it's too cold/miserable out.

On the other hand I've also been involved in arranging a team abroad that plays summer rugby (Canada) & I never even had to pick up the phone to round lads up for training/matches. When 6 o'clock hit they were only too happy to get out of their office & have a run around in the sun for an hour or two.

Beery Eyed

Another alternative to moving to a fully summer based season for the amateur game would be to implement a winter break and just avoid the particularly bad period around December/January. It would avoid a large amount of the cancelled & rescheduled matches that usually happen around that time, as well as providing more games when the conditions are better.

This option would keep the rugby season along the same general lines as it is now, but it would take into account the obvious difficulty of playing the game in the deep of winter.

In general there is far too often an attitude of resistance to change within the game in Britain & Ireland. Just because it was done like that previously should not be a good enough reason to avoid changing it for the better. The game has moved on drastically in the last 20 years & it is the countries that have embraced change that have moved ahead of the rest. Where we see obvious issues we should try to look at alternative options.

Swiwi

jimbomalley wrote: »

Yes, thats exactly what I just said, New Zealand play great rugby coz it never rains.

No it just pours!

jimbomalley

Swiwi wrote: »

No it just pours!

Oh ive been and have enjoyed plenty of your all too familiar weather!! Whats your thoughts Swiwi as to improving the game in Ireland/Europe (apart from wholesale employment of Southern Hemisphere coaches.....oh wait, already done)

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

I dunno, the ground can get pretty firm even in Ireland.

Yep, our local pitch its not only rock hard for the majority of june july august, but if games were played in it the grass would never get a chance to regrow.

Also think of the injuries in an amateur game on a warm hard ground.

Swiwi

jimbomalley wrote: »

Oh ive been and have enjoyed plenty of your all too familiar weather!! Whats your thoughts Swiwi as to improving the game in Ireland/Europe (apart from wholesale employment of Southern Hemisphere coaches.....oh wait, already done)

I do think there needs to be some change in philosophy, and an acceptance that the SH generally wins more than it loses, and therefore must be doing something right. This was best illustrated for me when Scotland played Ireland, and Scotland were awarded penalty advantage 5m from the Irish line. Any of the SH sides (esp NZ & Aust) would have pressed for the try, but Scotland resorted to yet another Garryowen, and settled for the 3 points when Kearney or whoever it was safely caught the ball.

I have been once again struck by how much faster the game is in the SH after watching the first few weeks of Super Rugby. I know you can't compare 6N internationals with a club competition, and the weather is currently better down south as we head into autumn there, but when I watched England squander 2 clear-cut try-scoring chances in the weekend, I just think the simple things like draw & pass are done better in the SH. I think too much emphasis is put on things like the scrum, which although it can spectacularly bring success such as Eng v Aus in RWC 2007, is not the be all and end all.

I do think Eng is the one exception in terms of philosophy, in that despite the fact they don't have the most enterprising backs, they do always possess a pack which can seriously threaten the SH sides, and does give them significant victories, albeit on a relatively infrequent basis.

I would like to see Ireland concentrate more on a SH style of gameplan, as I dont think Ireland generally produces the forwards to outmuscle Aus/NZ in the style of Eng or SA, but it may need a NZ coach for this, and I guess an element of risk.

I think the public settles for too much mediocrity from the Irish rugby team, I can't see how DK could be considered for continuation, and I think players like Earls would be told in NZ "you botched 2 tries there, mate, we'll pick you again when you can show how to link properly".

Ireland should be able to target a top 6 ranking, and a consistent top 2 finish in the 6N, but that requires self-belief, which I just don't think exists.

I hope Ireland get the best man for the job, but the IRFU is (in)famous for its politics, so we'll see. Fingers crossed...

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

I would like to see Ireland concentrate more on a SH style of gameplan, as I dont think Ireland generally produces the forwards to outmuscle Aus/NZ in the style of Eng or SA, but it may need a NZ coach for this, and I guess an element of risk.

As a former back I'll always favour scintillating backline moves over anything else, and I'd love to see Ireland play this way, but I don't think that means Ireland can't produce a pack up there with the best. Munster dominated Europe behind their (predominantly Irish) pack just 5-6 years ago. Leinster over the last few years should be the protoype. They won games in France (and elsewhere in Europe) on the back of a big pack performance (albeit with a little help on one occasion from BBBT), and although the Schmidt-inspired back play will be how that team will be remembered, it was a very good group of forwards. Look at the team that started that game v Clermont:

R Kearney, Nacewa, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald, J Sexton, Boss, Healy, Strauss, Ross, Cullen, Thorn, O'Brien, Jennings, Heaslip.

OK the backline is better, but people forget that was one of the best packs in Europe at the time. Leinster in those few years found a perfect balance, and there's no reason why Ireland can't.

Swiwi

Tox56 wrote: »

As a former back I'll always favour scintillating backline moves over anything else, and I'd love to see Ireland play this way, but I don't think that means Ireland can't produce a pack up there with the best. Munster dominated Europe behind their (predominantly Irish) pack just 5-6 years ago. Leinster over the last few years should be the protoype. They won games in France (and elsewhere in Europe) on the back of a big pack performance (albeit with a little help on one occasion from BBBT), and although the Schmidt-inspired back play will be how that team will be remembered, it was a very good group of forwards. Look at the team that started that game v Clermont:

R Kearney, Nacewa, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Fitzgerald, J Sexton, Boss, Healy, Strauss, Ross, Cullen, Thorn, O'Brien, Jennings, Heaslip.

OK the backline is better, but people forget that was one of the best packs in Europe at the time. Leinster in those few years found a perfect balance, and there's no reason why Ireland can't.

Yeah I agree, but I dont mean choosing 8 behemoths like SA and Eng tend to produce. I can never remember NZ trying to outmuscle SA, it just doesn't work, so we rely on other skills. In saying that, John Hart went thru a phase of choosing light mobile loosies, best typified by Taine Randell, and that backfired spectacularly in '99, and there was hints of that v Eng last year, so you do need some bulk in the forwards, but in NZ at least, you have to be able to catch, pass & run, you just wont get selected if you can scrum and no more.

jimbomalley

Jesus if deccie gets re hired I am giving up on the nayional team....its bloody mental that there's stilll a fear of that happening. Loving watching the super 15 highlights at the moment. The pace of the game down south is so much quicker and a lot of it stems from quick ruck ball - something that only england are providing for their backs with their two nippy scrum halves. The weather definitely doesnt help though with what is done next and is making for poor viewing. Agree with all you said swiwi, the game looks so simple when it is played well and players are awareof whats happening around them...on the positive side though our provinces are at least attempting to emulate your game, maybe some day the national team can do the same

Swiwi

jimbomalley wrote: »

Jesus if deccie gets re hired I am giving up on the nayional team....its bloody mental that there's stilll a fear of that happening. Loving watching the super 15 highlights at the moment. The pace of the game down south is so much quicker and a lot of it stems from quick ruck ball - something that only england are providing for their backs with their two nippy scrum halves. The weather definitely doesnt help though with what is done next and is making for poor viewing. Agree with all you said swiwi, the game looks so simple when it is played well and players are awareof whats happening around them...on the positive side though our provinces are at least attempting to emulate your game, maybe some day the national team can do the same

I can't get over this "his future all depends on X game", as if a 1-point victory keeps him the job, and 1-point loss sees him on his bike. The 6N has been disappointing, I think the selections are generally OK, and there is no doubt the players are trying hard, but it hasn't really clicked, bar the first 40 v Wales. I cant really see much progress since the GS, and I think fresh ideas are needed.

.ak

Swiwi wrote: »

I can't get over this "his future all depends on X game", as if a 1-point victory keeps him the job, and 1-point loss sees him on his bike. The 6N has been disappointing, I think the selections are generally OK, and there is no doubt the players are trying hard, but it hasn't really clicked, bar the first 40 v Wales. I cant really see much progress since the GS, and I think fresh ideas are needed.

You're completely right and most of the posters here would agree with you, however the 'his future depends on X game' is more a testament that the IRFU/media are willing to forgive and forget if he gets an odd result. Sure, how else would he still be in the job other than all these false dawns and one off games?

Beery Eyed

Just to try and bring this back to the topic at hand though. Do you agree that playing the game in better conditions from an early age benefits the skill levels & fitness of players?

It’s all well and good to look at the senior setup and say that we should play a better brand of flowing rugby, but if we want that to happen then we have to put the structures in place which reward that game. Currently the conditions for a large portion of the season in Ireland don’t do this. Throughout all age levels there is an emphasis on “keep it simple” rugby. In other words short, crash balls, no attempted offloads, no long passes, kick for territory & take points where available. I’m not being overly negative, but this is the reality when conditions are poor, and for good reason. Attempting a free-flowing, expansive game in a downpour on a muddy pitch would be suicidal.

On the flip side, when you get down to games at the beginning or the end of the season, when the sun is out & the pitches are decent, it’s a completely different game. The only pity for me is that we actually pack up the season just as it’s starting to come into perfect conditions for open, expansive rugby.

Swiwi

Beery Eyed wrote: »

Just to try and bring this back to the topic at hand though. Do you agree that playing the game in better conditions from an early age benefits the skill levels & fitness of players?

It’s all well and good to look at the senior setup and say that we should play a better brand of flowing rugby, but if we want that to happen then we have to put the structures in place which reward that game. Currently the conditions for a large portion of the season in Ireland don’t do this. Throughout all age levels there is an emphasis on “keep it simple” rugby. In other words short, crash balls, no attempted offloads, no long passes, kick for territory & take points where available. I’m not being overly negative, but this is the reality when conditions are poor, and for good reason. Attempting a free-flowing, expansive game in a downpour on a muddy pitch would be suicidal.

On the flip side, when you get down to games at the beginning or the end of the season, when the sun is out & the pitches are decent, it’s a completely different game. The only pity for me is that we actually pack up the season just as it’s starting to come into perfect conditions for open, expansive rugby.

I agree that all the touch rugby (tag rugby) on the beach in a NZ summer, rounded off with a BBQ and a few beers might add to the passing skills...

...as people say though changing the rugby season in Ireland would clash with GAA etc.

Snickers Man

Thought I would bump this one back up because it is likely to be a topic that will be raised again soon.

The generally good standard of open rugby seen at the world cup just passed was due, at least in part, to the unusually mild weather that prevailed for most of the tournament. In a typical winter climate of driving wind and rain, oozing mud and freezing fingers it is more likely to find a game dominated by kicking and driving than by scintillating handling.

So, the idealists will think, why not shift the season so that rugby is played closer to the summer months so that we can avail of such beneficial conditions?

There are more hard-headed reasons too which have caused the money men in the game, ie the owners of French and English clubs, to consider a shift in the season. They want to align the rugby calendars of the northern and southern hemispheres more closely to increase the frequency of competition between the big teams, north and south, level the playing field and generate greater interest from emerging markets, especially in the US and the wealthier parts of Asia.

So what do we think?

Reasons pro change: as stated above, greater co-ordination between the seasons of rugby playing nations, better conditions producing a better game, more comfortable viewing conditions for people attending games.

Reasons against: IT'S A ****ING STUPID IDEA!!!!!!

To take our own parochial interests into account, it would mean that all our major ball sports (Gaelic football, Hurling, soccer and rugby) not to mention other summer pursuits such as horse racing, cricket, sailing, golf, athletics etc etc would all be telescoped into an increasingly tight window.

Of course the problems of a small nation of four million people don't amount to a hill of beans in the crazy world of the bean counters so let's speak in more general terms.

Sports like rugby were invented to give us something to do in our miserable winters. What the hell are we, and by we I mean Europeans, supposed to do if it gets moved? Hibernate?

More importantly, from a financial point of view, do the moneybags sponsors really want rugby moved away from winter? Do they want their entire marketing "window" telescoped into a few months in the middle of the year with no exposure at either end?

Of course they don't. Move rugby from winter to summer and you create a vacuum in the marketing market (sic) which will be filled by some other attraction. What that could be, I really don't know but rest assured something will be found to fill the gap. That something may or may not be another ball sport. It could be anything. How many times have you heard it said that the biggest competition to many sports nowadays is XBox or Playstation?

Rugby during the summer would only intensify competition between all existing ball sports (and others) for a limited budget that would inevitably cause some sports to fall by the wayside. And I'm not just talking in a parochial Irish context here. Sports like cricket, tennis and even golf would be squeezed by the need to attract bums on to seats where they were quite happy to sit when there wasn't a rugby match played elsewhere. And of course rugby would suffer similarly by those whose love of the game is additional to but not on a par with their enthusiasm for a more traditional summer pursuit.

On a personal level I just hate the notion that our miserable winters could be shorn of one of the few things that makes them bearable. So, personally, I think that anybody seriously suggesting a summer move should be dressed in an orange jump suit and handed over to ISIS, or be beaten to death with hammers.

Harsh? Maybe, but then as the great General Patton used to say to his soldiers after haranguing them at length about what was expected from them: "Okay you sons of bitches. Now you know how I feel!"

Not an inch!!! Or a minute!!

errlloyd

I wonder how much money it'd save rugby clubs in floodlight usage alone.

I'm a big fan of summer rugby as a concept. Eddie O Sullivan had a piece recently about realigning NH leagues so they no longer run concurrently and instead one after the other. I think this would be a good chance to do that. 6 nations, with the early rounds of the domestic league run at the same time (like the wc this year it gives the young guys a shot at the start of the season), domestic league all wrapped up within say 24 weeks of the 6n ending. Then a 10 week format for the eercc, then the autumn internationals and winter.

aimee1

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I don't really follow RL but didn't they only change to summer rugby a few years back? Did that have a major effect on their attendances and revenues?

super league in england changed to summer season 20 years ago and the grand final crowds have grown from 60000 [2001] to about 75000 [2015]

Any games Ive seen on BBC are fairly well attended. They also do the magic weekend with all 12 teams involved over one weekend and they have taken it to edinburgh, manchester, newcastle, cardiff in an attempt to increase interest and they get crowds of about 30-35k

Losty Dublin

aimee1 wrote: »

super league in england changed to summer season 20 years ago and the grand final crowds have grown from 60000 [2001] to about 75000 [2015]

Any games Ive seen on BBC are fairly well attended. They also do the magic weekend with all 12 teams involved over one weekend and they have taken it to edinburgh, manchester, newcastle, cardiff in an attempt to increase interest and they get crowds of about 30-35k

Superleague Rugby had investment and TV exposure from Sky Sports to help it along as well.

its_phil

I'd love to move it to the summer months but the GAA and the lack of domestic competition from other sports allows rugby more column lines than it probably should have mean I think we'd be a small fish in a big pond.

CatFromHue

If we moved to a Summer based season we'd get warmer weather but I'm not so sure if we'd get that much more of a drier season.

Just looking at the climate data for Dublin on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Climate

Sep to May (incl) = average monthly rainfall in mm is 59.93 or total 539.4
Feb to Oct (incl) = average monthly rainfall in mm is 57.08 or total 513.7

With the lowest rainfall being in Feb, April, July, and March.

The average number of rainy days don't really change throughout the year either.

pickarooney

I think the good weather=good rugby idea is way overstated.
Toulon play a fairly turgid brand of power rugby and do so in a climate with minimal rainfall. Conditions are ideal for expansive, passing rugby for the majority of the season but this has no impact on how they play the game. It's not specific to Toulon but common throughout the south of France. Arguably the teams who play the most free flowing rugby are those on the Atlantic coast where wind and rain are much more common.
Although anyone watching UBB this year would see even they seem to have abandoned the beautiful game.

bilston

I'm just thinking aloud here so go easy on me...

Has continuous seasons ever been considered? By that I mean a 12 month long season with maybe a month off here and there? What would be better on the players bodies? 10 weeks off once each year or 3 breaks of 3 or 4 weeks at a time?

The Lost Sheep

Snickers Man wrote: »

Thought I would bump this one back up because it is likely to be a topic that will be raised again soon.

The generally good standard of open rugby seen at the world cup just passed was due, at least in part, to the unusually mild weather that prevailed for most of the tournament. In a typical winter climate of driving wind and rain, oozing mud and freezing fingers it is more likely to find a game dominated by kicking and driving than by scintillating handling.

So, the idealists will think, why not shift the season so that rugby is played closer to the summer months so that we can avail of such beneficial conditions?

There are more hard-headed reasons too which have caused the money men in the game, ie the owners of French and English clubs, to consider a shift in the season. They want to align the rugby calendars of the northern and southern hemispheres more closely to increase the frequency of competition between the big teams, north and south, level the playing field and generate greater interest from emerging markets, especially in the US and the wealthier parts of Asia.

So what do we think?

Reasons pro change: as stated above, greater co-ordination between the seasons of rugby playing nations, better conditions producing a better game, more comfortable viewing conditions for people attending games.

Reasons against: IT'S A ****ING STUPID IDEA!!!!!!

To take our own parochial interests into account, it would mean that all our major ball sports (Gaelic football, Hurling, soccer and rugby) not to mention other summer pursuits such as horse racing, cricket, sailing, golf, athletics etc etc would all be telescoped into an increasingly tight window.

Of course the problems of a small nation of four million people don't amount to a hill of beans in the crazy world of the bean counters so let's speak in more general terms.

Sports like rugby were invented to give us something to do in our miserable winters. What the hell are we, and by we I mean Europeans, supposed to do if it gets moved? Hibernate?

More importantly, from a financial point of view, do the moneybags sponsors really want rugby moved away from winter? Do they want their entire marketing "window" telescoped into a few months in the middle of the year with no exposure at either end?

Of course they don't. Move rugby from winter to summer and you create a vacuum in the marketing market (sic) which will be filled by some other attraction. What that could be, I really don't know but rest assured something will be found to fill the gap. That something may or may not be another ball sport. It could be anything. How many times have you heard it said that the biggest competition to many sports nowadays is XBox or Playstation?

Rugby during the summer would only intensify competition between all existing ball sports (and others) for a limited budget that would inevitably cause some sports to fall by the wayside. And I'm not just talking in a parochial Irish context here. Sports like cricket, tennis and even golf would be squeezed by the need to attract bums on to seats where they were quite happy to sit when there wasn't a rugby match played elsewhere. And of course rugby would suffer similarly by those whose love of the game is additional to but not on a par with their enthusiasm for a more traditional summer pursuit.

On a personal level I just hate the notion that our miserable winters could be shorn of one of the few things that makes them bearable. So, personally, I think that anybody seriously suggesting a summer move should be dressed in an orange jump suit and handed over to ISIS, or be beaten to death with hammers.

Harsh? Maybe, but then as the great General Patton used to say to his soldiers after haranguing them at length about what was expected from them: "Okay you sons of bitches. Now you know how I feel!"

Not an inch!!! Or a minute!!

I don't think it should be moved as we would lose out on players in a lot of the country due to the GAA. We have enough issues with competing with GAA in April/May/September/October so why make things harder for ourselves by competing with the GAA during its core part of the season?
Weather would be better but we would lose out on players and gaining new players.

CIARAN_BOYLE

bilston wrote: »

I'm just thinking aloud here so go easy on me...

Has continuous seasons ever been considered? By that I mean a 12 month long season with maybe a month off here and there? What would be better on the players bodies? 10 weeks off once each year or 3 breaks of 3 or 4 weeks at a time?

Coniditioning would suffer, not being able to do preseasons would be a major problem.

tigerboon

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I don't think it should be moved as we would lose out on players in a lot of the country due to the GAA. We have enough issues with competing with GAA in April/May/September/October so why make things harder for ourselves by competing with the GAA during its core part of the season?
Weather would be better but we would lose out on players and gaining new players.

Outside Dublin you might only have 3-4 rugby clubs in a county. They may have players from up to 7 or 8 towns playing for them. At underage most lads will play GAA as well. They more than likely go to school and know their GAA team mates well whereas they may play rugby with a couple of their friends/schoolmates. if you force a 10-12 year old to chose between the two there is only going to be one outcome. As things stand, there is very little overlap in the playing seasons of each. Another thing is summer holiday season where underage GAA teams are decimated for about a month

The Lost Sheep

tigerboon wrote: »

Outside Dublin you might only have 3-4 rugby clubs in a county. They may have players from up to 7 or 8 towns playing for them. At underage most lads will play GAA as well. They more than likely go to school and know their GAA team mates well whereas they may play rugby with a couple of their friends/schoolmates. if you force a 10-12 year old to chose between the two there is only going to be one outcome. As things stand, there is very little overlap in the playing seasons of each. Another thing is summer holiday season where underage GAA teams are decimated for about a month

What counties only have 3-4 clubs? Which clubs have teams from7/8 towns playing for them?
Summer rugby wont happen as there isn't a need for it. There is considerable overlap at under 16/minor GAA and rugby grades. Not as much overlap with under 14 gaa and rugby in terms of when games are clashing in where im based and clubs im involved in anyway...

Snickers Man

The issue is a bit bigger than rugby v GAA. Obviously, Ireland couldn't move its rugby season unilaterally. It would have to be done in conjunction with the other countries in Europe.

Obviously, there are major pitfalls at a local level. It would clash horrendously with GAA and, less problematically, with soccer.

I don't think the LoI's move to summer bothered the GAA unduly. They regard domestic Irish soccer with as much disdain as do most Irish soccer fans. Rugby would be a different matter given a) the similarity between the games and b) the raised profile of rugby in recent years. A professional game involving local Irish teams playing against other professional outfits from other countries would be an act of war and the GAA would respond in kind.

There would be vicious competition for sponsors, an end to any "detente" regarding facilities sharing and possibly even the resuscitation of the Ban, albeit in a more subtle fashion.

No sane Irish rugby fan would welcome summer rugby because of the domestic discord it would cause but how would we argue against it if the other European unions, or more likely the powerful English and French clubs pushed for it? How could we convince them that it's a bad idea for them too?

Beery Eyed

I'm all for summer rugby, having played a few seasons of it in Canada & also playing in Oz for a while (which is nearly equivalent of our summers for large parts of the season! ha)

However, as people have mentioned before there are so many other determining factors involved that I have accepted it will probably never happen in Ireland, at least not as a wholesale move.

I do think that we could shift some levels of the game towards the summer months though, and cut out the typically worst months of the year to play.

For instance, it was a lot easier to keep lads involved & energised at club level when training wasn't constantly a battle with the elements & invariably in total darkness. Coming home from training while it's still bright was an unusual, but welcome change while I was playing in Ontario. There were no cancellations for training or matches due to the weather. Instead, we were able to plan beers & bbq's for supporters & players after the games, and even if it rained it wasn't freezing cold & stayed bright late into the evening.

On the pro level I'd also like to see an additional series of games at the start of the summer, when the tours are on, involving the fringe players & academy guys who aren't involved at international or U20 level. It could be a small interpro series of 3 games, but it would provide some good, competitive gametime, in good conditions, for the guys who want to put their hand up for more games next season. It's not quite the Currie Cup or ITM, but it could be a start. When you think about it, the internationals are playing games all year, and then go off to play a summer tour. Whereas a lot of these guys are stuck on the bench, looking for games in the Pro12 & could take the chance to play open, expansive rugby at the end of the year to show that they're good enough to start the following season.