Helicopter questions.

newmug

Hi folks. I have a few questions on helicopters, just thought I'd throw them out there, so here goes:

1) Whats the helicopter equivalent of a PPL?
2) Where's the best place to do it?
3) How much does it cost (ballpark)?
4) Can you legally land a helicopter anywhere?
5) Where can you buy one? Any good websites?
6) Can you buy helicopter kits?


Any info appreciated - Thanks, Newmug

phonypony

1- PPL(H)
2-USA for cost, can be done in Weston
3-15K++
4-As long as you have the landowners permission and its safe
5-Rotars'R'us
6-Kit to build a heli or a PPL starter kit?

newmug

I meant a kit to build one, just to keep costs down. Is there such a thing?

Now that you mention it, whats a PPL starter kit?

phonypony

Yeah there are kits and plans available for lots of nice machines, it would be a real labour of love though and from what I understand the majority just give up. I've certainly seen a few 'partially built' classifieds.. It may be cheaper and less of a nightmare to just buy a share in a nice helicopter with a certificate of airworthiness.

In terms of PPL starter kits there are plenty available from the usual suppliers, pooleys, flightstore, ASA, AFE, etc, they just have the 'essential' bits you might need to during PPL training.

TW Mr Tayto

newmug wrote: »

I meant a kit to build one, just to keep costs down. Is there such a thing?

Old saying: if it flies floats or something a little less PG beginning with F, it's cheaper to rent it...

The biggest advantage to ownership is availability (or so I've heard)
You can buy kits though, see Rotorway - probably the most famous.
Building a kit would help you understand how the helicopter works, but it's a double edged sword... The thing is you DON'T know how it works, so mistakes could be made. Besides that, the cheapest kit-builds are most likely single seater, not very good for learning.


To answer your other questions.

1) Whats the helicopter equivalent of a PPL?
PPL(H), exactly the same thing.

2) Where's the best place to do it?
Anywhere. Skywest Aviation have bases in Weston, Cork and Newcastle Co. Wicklow. HeliFlite have a base in Weston. Both fly on R44s. HeliFlite has 1 R44RavenI SkyWest have two R44RavenII s. Anyone will tell you that it's important that you get along with the people in the school - so go and visit both. Some schools will just close the office if there is no work (administrative or flying) to be done, so a phone call to arrange a time might work best. I got my PPL with with SkyWest, and found them brilliant. Someone coming from HeliFlite may say the same about that school, although I've never met anyone trained by them (to be clear I'm NOT saying they're useless, I've just never met anyone trained by them!)

I'd be VERY VERY wary of going to the US to do your license. The european aviation authority (JAA) will be changing to EASA (a new body) soon. I've heard that they will be trying to oust American licenses. I know that without proof, you might not believe me; but I've met two pilots who got their CPL in America, but the IAA failed to recognize them.

3) How much does it cost (ballpark)?
Genuinely depends on your aptitude, and frequency. Usually €25,000-€28,000

4) Can you legally land a helicopter anywhere?
I've been looking through S.I. 72 for a bit, and can find no definition of an off site landing (only those which refer to an aerodrome). When I actually look at the definition of aerodrome I find this:

“aerodrome” means a defined area on land or water (including any buildings, installations and equipment) intended to be used either wholly or in part for the arrival, departure and surface movement of aircraft and also includes an area, whether on land or water or on a building or other structure or elsewhere, intended for use for landing or taking off by aircraft capable of descending or climbing vertically;

But then my back yard could be an aerodrome...

Then looking through S.I. 61 of 2006 Part IV

(3)(b) Only a helicopter operated in Performance Class 1 shall be permitted to operate from elevated heliports in congested areas.

But during training you'll be flying class 3.

“Performance Class 3” means, in relation to a helicopter, performance such that, in the case of power unit failure at any point in the flight profile, a forced landing must be performed;

Sorry I'm not much help here, but it's good enough to answer your question with "not the ones you'll be flying"

5) Where can you buy one? Any good websites?
There are plenty, a google search would be best. With limited experience it'd be better to get in touch with someone, or discuss it with one of the schools when you call them/ go to see them.


Good luck, it's the most fun you can possibly have!
PM me with any questions if you want.

eatmyshorts

Helicopters??...A million parts all spinning and moving in unison...they're the work of the Devil!

newmug

Getting great info here, thanks folks! What I had in mind was to get my PPLh, and get a gyrocopter! Possibly a kit one at that! Anyone have any experience of these?

TW Mr Tayto

A gyroplane/gyrocopter is a separate license.

See here:

http://www.gyroflying.com/flight-training.php

newmug

God it all seems so heavily regulated! I thought a gyro would fall into the category of helicopter, and the only reason I was thinking of one of them was to keep costs down! I'm a total newbie to all this though, so I appreciate all your advice and help folks:)

But it seems you'd need a bit of a landing strip for a gyro. I need something that can take off and land vertically. Back to helicopter idea so.

trad

6. http://www.tactools.org/a-chopper-is-born-build-yourself-a-helicopter/

TW Mr Tayto

newmug wrote: »

God it all seems so heavily regulated! I thought a gyro would fall into the category of helicopter, and the only reason I was thinking of one of them was to keep costs down! I'm a total newbie to all this though, so I appreciate all your advice and help folks:)

But it seems you'd need a bit of a landing strip for a gyro. I need something that can take off and land vertically. Back to helicopter idea so.

They're actually quite different.
Gyrocopters fly on a principle known as "autorotation". It works because of the rush of air under (or through) the rotor disk. The moving air spins the blades. In a helicopter we only do this if we have (or are practicing) an engine failure - all other times, the engine drives the rotor. A gyro also has a propeller to drive it forward, where as helicopters use the main rotor disk (on top).

The controls are very different too, a helicopter has a control called a collective. This collective is on the left hand side of the pilot (looks like a handbreak). The collective is used to control the lift (*see point below if you're interested). A gyro will not have a collective - just a throttle.

For each new type of helicopter (like the difference between a punto or a golf in car terms) you'll need a type rating. A type rating is a sort of add-on to your license allowing you to fly that kind of helicopter. So even if gyrocopters were classed as helicopters, you'd ned to do more training in order to fly one. Type ratings are usually only 5 flying hours, 5 ground school hours and a test. There are some small exceptions (such as, your first turbine helicopter)


* It actually creates what is known as total rotor thrust. The TRT is used for both climbing and going forward. These two factors of lift and thrust as they are known in the fixed wing world are somewhat combined in a helicopter.



EDIT:
Just seen your man in the pic you posted holding what looks like a collective - a google search turned up that some of them DO have collectives, but they are the more complex ones.

TW Mr Tayto

trad wrote: »

6. http://www.tactools.org/a-chopper-is-born-build-yourself-a-helicopter/

I've been looking for that for a while! Thanks

newmug

I'd love a go in one of these. What are they called? (Sorry about the bad pic, its from the show "Skippy")

TW Mr Tayto

newmug wrote: »

I'd love a go in one of these. What are they called? (Sorry about the bad pic, its from the show "Skippy")

http://www.peterstoys.com/Bell47.htm

It's a bell47

FarmerGreen

You sound a bit fearless mate.
Have a go with the Microsoft Fright Simulator and see how many times you stuff it in.
Its realistic enough to get the hang of it.
Have a read of this...
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/faa-h-8083-21.pdf
Then go have a trial lesson in a Hughes 500.
Its only about 500 € an an hour, more than twice the price of an R22, but err, well, safer.

They are a bit tricky... http://youtu.be/uI4d5AeAi7g
So youve got to have an instructor, good old Dennis from Skyline at Booker
http://youtu.be/gwZILBd-mNI
He was doing so well before that.

Dont be a dick ..http://youtu.be/P7G1E357aw0

Delancey

TW Mr Tayto wrote: »

http://www.peterstoys.com/Bell47.htm

It's a bell47

A very , very old design at this stage - doubt if many ( if indeed any ) are still flying - used in the Korean War 1950-1953.

Jesus Nut

(Bell 47)-There are still a fair few around and flying, but in Ireland there is only 1 that still flys and it is based in County Galway. Slowest machine ever but a beauty

jmayo

FarmerGreen wrote: »

You sound a bit fearless mate.
Have a go with the Microsoft Fright Simulator and see how many times you stuff it in.
Its realistic enough to get the hang of it.
Have a read of this...
http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraft/media/faa-h-8083-21.pdf
Then go have a trial lesson in a Hughes 500.
Its only about 500 € an an hour, more than twice the price of an R22, but err, well, safer.

They are a bit tricky... http://youtu.be/uI4d5AeAi7g
So youve got to have an instructor, good old Dennis from Skyline at Booker
http://youtu.be/gwZILBd-mNI
He was doing so well before that.

Dont be a dick ..http://youtu.be/P7G1E357aw0

Ah if you are going to be doing loops then get yourself a MBB BO-105 like the Red Bull Helicopter.
Shure you can double as an air ambulance on your days off.

BTW why do you think a Hughes 500 is safer than a R22 ?
The R22 is one of the most used training aircraft and AFAIK has a decent enough safety record.

FarmerGreen

Oh Christ.

Palmy

To learn to fly you will prob do it in a R22 which is around €340hr,forget about learning in a R44 your looking at about €550+ an hour,(unless you have deep pockets that is).A hughs 500 would run more like €850-€1000hr.
Trust me you will need deep pockets,it will cost you twice what a fixed wing licence costs.I did 35hrs of training in the R22 and 300cbi and just couldn't afford to carry on training.Think long and hard before departing with your money.

Palmy

To train to get a job you would be looking at least €80+.The only real idea would be go to Bristow Academy in the U.S and do the Jaa course and hope to get directly employed by Bristow in the U.K after completing the course.

garfieldsghost

Jesus Nut wrote: »

(Bell 47)-There are still a fair few around and flying, but in Ireland there is only 1 that still flys and it is based in County Galway. Slowest machine ever but a beauty

There's also one based in County Cavan... my father knows the owner so we dropped in (literally) to have have a look once or twice. Lovely machine.

Stovepipe

Hi there
Go down to Paddy Reilly's gyro school at Limetree Airfield, near Portarlington in Co. Laois. He'll tell you realistic prices and what you need to do to get a PPL (G). Even a basic heli PPL is twice the price of a fixed-wing PPL and much more expensive to keep up.

regards
Stovepipe