Homelessness

Red21

I've a few questions with reguards to homeless people in Ireland and what they are entitled to, maybe someone here is in the know.
Do they collect some form of social welfare or do you need an address to collect all forms of social welfare?

If ever you watch a t.v documentry about homelessness you'll see interviews with people on the streets and the explanation as to how they ended up like this is always very uninformative, they may say "I split from my partner" or "I had some mental health issues" considering that people not working qualify for SW and can also qualify for such things as rent allowence. How do things get so bad for these people?

If a person lost their job for whatever reason and suddenly couldn't return to their house/flat what options are available to them? or does this depend on where they actually are city/town etc?

CDfm

A homeless man is entitled to hostel accomadation which is fairly basic.

The HSE pays for it

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Find_a_Service/LHO/Dublin_West/Social_Inclusion/Homeless_Services_in_Dublin_West.html

Think like his cohabitants might be junkies , released prisoners etc.

Emergency beds are provided by charities but are in short supply like this

http://www.ucdsvp.com/activities/backlane-homeless-shelter

They are also entitled to recieve supplementary welfare payment

My understanding is that homeless women can go to a womens shelter claiming DV etc but that is anecdotal.

The reality is the type of accomadation available to homesless men is in short supply and very rough and ready.

I worked in this area for a few years...........

Hostels are funded by the HSE, Local Authorities and fund raising by the charities concerned.
I would say the majority of Homeless people have alcohol or drug abuse issues.
Some of the hostels are fine, others are run down kips

http://www.homelessagency.ie/

CDfm

Deleted User wrote: »

I worked in this area for a few years...........

You don't see many homeless women, the delivery system seems to be somewhat different ? Is it ?

you're right the majority would be men, I think in the region of 70% ( not sure of the exact percentage as it's a few years since I worked in that area)
it was quite common for men to end up Homeless, after splitting from their wife/partner, losing their house, turning to drink, and not have the same social skills as women.

CDfm

Isn't it also true to say that some men have already become homeless and the drink issue is irrelevant or a result of their circumstances as opposed to being the cause of it.

The system does not distinguish between a single seperated man and other homeless men.

You don't have refuges for men as an example.

later12

I think CDFm addressed most of your questions quite well, this has been my own experience.

I used to be involved with a charity that worked with homeless men in Dublin (sorry, I know nothing about homeless services for women so can't speak about their situation).

Addiction is only one reason why men can end up homeless to begin with, and if they don't have addiction problems going into some of these hostels they are likely to have them on the way out.

Anyone who is not already addicted might be tempted to turn to drugs and alcohol whilst living on the street. However, I don't think it's productive to cast all men together - particularly addicts and non addicts - into the same shelter.

I have seen healthy, fit looking young chaps walk in the door of one particular homeless refuge for men in Dublin, vulnerable from their psychological distress or their family situations, and sit down in a TV room next to young guys of the same age with serious, chronic heroin and drink addiction.

What do policy makers think is a realistic outcome for that young guy? Unless a dramatic intervention is made, he will come out the same as the addicts with whom he shares a living space for 12 or 14 hours in the day.

In my opinion, homeless refuges as they stand are a double edged sword.

On the one hand, they slash the numbers of people physically sleeping on the streets.

On the other hand, their crude dismissal of homeless people into one enormous cohort, failing to differentiate between types of homeless individuals may compound individual cases by introducing them to unhelpful influences and habits.

As for the state of the homeless shelters themselves, I've seen places I wouldn't leave my dog. You had to repeatedly warn residents not to walk anywhere in their bare feet for fear of stepping on infected needles.

The OP is correct that the same services that apply to housed social welfare recipients wouldotherwise apply to homeless people, had they not become homeless.

But homelessness is almost always a symptom of a deeper problem. These problems can begin with the individual (addiction, mental health problems, family difficulties) but can also arise due to poor social welfare services. One such problem which I've seen more than once can be refusal of a Community Welfare Officer to approve rent assistance for a social welfare claimant. And sometimes such claimants just have nowhere else to go.

With the social welfare budget constantly under fire, I can only imagine that diminishing social services are going to be an increasingly serious contributor to a rising incidence of homelessness.

HovaBaby

I was homeless before, I was 20 years old and just had to leave the family house, where my Dad was living, had to because of the situation. We were both badly depressed at the time and where arguing all the time, I went to court a couple of times. I kicked a door and my Dad would ring the gardai. Was annoying.

Anyway, I was in 2 hostels in Cork, the Simon and St Vincents. The Simon seemed shabby alright, but not too bad. The floors looked clean and there was food provided, plus a nice outdoor area. I found St Vincents alright too, the hallways were cleaned regularly and the place wasn't rundown. I think it was a bit better than the Simon. Having said that, that was back in 2002 during the boom, I am not sure if they are worse now, though heroin has become more a problem in Cork.

Regards social welfare payments, if you live in a homeless shelter that constitutes you're address and you can thus recieve the dole.

later12

Glad to hear you're back on your feet.

Can I ask, how did you eventually move out of sheltered accommodation?

In Dublin there's a Homeless Person's Unit that can help in finding a place. I presume there is an equivalent in Cork city, or how did you manage?

CDfm

I have seen this report on women & housing

http://www.womensaid.ie/download/pdf/housing_policy_practice_women.pdf

Its also an area where the practice is complicated.

Where would a homeless girl go ?

Morag

Homeless girls and women do end up on the streets and in squats and it's not always related to domestic abuse.

There are even couples who sleep rough together but women on the streets can be at higher risk then men and often will work harder to get themselves off it.

CDfm

Sharrow wrote: »

Homeless girls and women do end up on the streets and in squats and it's not always related to domestic abuse.

Good point.

There are even couples who sleep rough together but women on the streets can be at higher risk then men and often will work harder to get themselves off it.

By higher risk , do you mean sexually vulnerable ?

I meant that the services for women and girls do not seem as obvious and a vulnerable person might hop from vulnerable position to vulnerable position and make bad choices.

Couples -are there services.

Morag

There are services but a couple who are co dependant and co enabling addiction will spend money on the addiction and not on rent and so end up on the street and they can not stay together in hostels.

Women who are on the street will often end up raped or having to trade their body for protection or substances if they are addicts and will in most cases ended up pregnant and can end up in specific sheltered housing once their far enough along but they have to choose to stay there.

CDfm

Sharrow wrote: »

There are services but a couple who are co dependant and co enabling addiction will spend money on the addiction and not on rent and so end up on the street and they can not stay together in hostels.

OK -it makes sense

Women who are on the street will often end up raped or having to trade their body for protection or substances if they are addicts and will in most cases ended up pregnant and can end up in specific sheltered housing once their far enough along but they have to choose to stay there.

What are the emergency accomadation options for women ?

Say a young one no money finds herself on the streets , what can she expect ?

I know for men that it is very rough and a friend of ours ex-boyfriend ended up in a mens hostel this year. She tried to help him and there was work and we arranged shared accomadation for him but he was fairly traumatised & I dont know if he had used drugs before but they became an issue.

ElleEm

There are a variety of homeless hostels for women, men and children.

They can usually access an emergency hostel fairly easily, then the staff in that place will aim to identify their needs and refer them onto somewhere more suitable. For example, a woman who is homeless due to domestic violence will be referred to a service that caters for her, a man who is an alcoholic may be referred to a place that caters for him, women/men with mental health issues will get referred to somewhere that cater for them, and so on.

There is a huge shortage of beds, and there are often waiting lists, which mean people stay in unsuitable accommodation for longer than appropriate, just because they are the ones available.

I worked in a homeless service for years, it was supposed to be a nightly service for ABSOLUTE emergencies, but you would often have people stay there on and off for years.

There has been a restructuring in the homeless services provided in Ireland over the last year or so, and the aim is to eradicate longterm homelessness, so hopefully that makes a difference.

Morag

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=1302

Emergency beds

There are around 100 emergency beds for women in Dublin, according to Roughan MacNamara, Focus Ireland's public awareness officer. "Nearly half of these beds are taken up long-term. It is estimated that there could be 1,000 homeless women in the Dublin region".

Recent statistics from the ESRI have shown the growth since 1983 when just 39 women with 93 children were homeless in Dublin. By 1999 where there were 540 families with 990 children homeless in Dublin. According to the ESRI, a large number of the current homeless are single mothers with children.

One area where women are at a slight advantage is in obtaining local authority housing. With nearly 50,000 people on housing lists nationwide, it is a very slight advantage, but nevertheless a woman with children who is out of a home remains a priority housing case. Unfortunately, even when a woman and her children get allocated a house, they still may not be able to move in.

Ciaran Stenson, who runs a drop-in centre and coffee shop for the homeless in Temple Bar, explains why: "When I first started working in this area, local communities had nothing to do with housing policy", he says. "But some communities were dumped on by the corporation and became ravaged by people dealing drugs and doing drugs. Around six years ago, some communities started to react against this and demanded a say in who got housed in their area. It is a good idea but now it has gone to the other extreme".

As a result of anti-drugs vigilantism in the 1980s and early 1990s, the corporation has been forced to work alongside local community groups when placing people in local authority housing. Agreed policies against 'anti-social behaviour' effectively mean that local residents have a veto on who can move into their area.

Criminals

When applied to known and convicted criminals, such policies seem a fair way for neighbourhoods to protect themselves against undesirable elements. However, innocent women have often been refused houses by residents on the grounds of rumour and association.

"There is a very strong anti-social policy which means that if you want a house, you have to go in front of the local resident's committee", Ciaran Stenson explains. "If you have any blemish on your record, there is literally no chance of your getting a house. We see whole families being tarred with the same brush. A lot of women who come to us with a couple of kids have a partner who is in jail for drug offences. They are labelled as being anti-social as well, even though these women were not even dealing in drugs".

"The men are paying their debt to society, but in the meantime, the women and kids can not get re-housed", he continues. "There's no requirement to prove a bad reputation - a lot of it is rumour and innuendo. A convicted murderer coming out of prison could get a house because their offence did not take place on a Corporation estate. But if people say you have sold drugs, you've got very little chance of getting a house".

A life crisis

For those who are homeless, something terrible has usually occurred in their life to force them to take to the streets. However, unlike most homeless men, a woman often has the added difficulties of minding children. The women I spoke to in the Focus Ireland coffee shop all agreed that while they hated living in a hostel and being homeless, they would be able to deal with it, were it not for their children.

"What I can't deal with is putting my kids through this", explained one young mother, echoing the feelings of many.

There's a women's only hostel on abbey street and they charge a token fee per night of between 1 - 2 euros. But there is alway a high demand for the beds and when it's full it's full. Pretty much the same as the men's hostels.

With all those Nama properties sitting empty and the government having permitted the sale of co council social housing stocks there needs to be some joined up thinking done and swiftly, for the sake of everyone who finds themselves with out a permanent place to live.

CDfm

Sharrow wrote: »

There's a women's only hostel on abbey street and they charge a token fee per night of between 1 - 2 euros. But there is alway a high demand for the beds and when it's full it's full. Pretty much the same as the men's hostels.

I was talking to a guy in Ranelagh one Saturday night when we were out and he said needed 15 euro for a hostel.

1 to 2 euro seems very cheap.

ElleEm

CDfm wrote: »

I was talking to a guy in Ranelagh one Saturday night when we were out and he said needed 15 euro for a hostel.

1 to 2 euro seems very cheap.

Homeless hostels ARE cheap. They really only charge a token fee. It is usually around a fiver, but depending on the place, and the numbers for the night, they'll let you away without paying.

The guy was either begging, or looking to stay in a hostel hostel, not HOMELESS hostel.

CDfm

The 16 to 18 year old's in betweeners -that must be difficult.

ElleEm wrote: »

Homeless hostels ARE cheap. They really only charge a token fee. It is usually around a fiver, but depending on the place, and the numbers for the night, they'll let you away without paying.

The guy was either begging, or looking to stay in a hostel hostel, not HOMELESS hostel.

But he was homeless and to me seemed more than a little frightened.

ElleEm wrote: »

There are a variety of homeless hostels for women, men and children.

They can usually access an emergency hostel fairly easily, then the staff in that place will aim to identify their needs and refer them onto somewhere more suitable. For example, a woman who is homeless due to domestic violence will be referred to a service that caters for her, a man who is an alcoholic may be referred to a place that caters for him, women/men with mental health issues will get referred to somewhere that cater for them, and so on.

There has been a restructuring in the homeless services provided in Ireland over the last year or so, and the aim is to eradicate longterm homelessness, so hopefully that makes a difference.

There is not a men's refuge and I have posted elsewhere the LGBT services are non existant.

So it seems to me that there are huge gaps in the services available.

EDIT

A life crisis

For those who are homeless, something terrible has usually occurred in their life to force them to take to the streets. However, unlike most homeless men, a woman often has the added difficulties of minding children. The women I spoke to in the Focus Ireland coffee shop all agreed that while they hated living in a hostel and being homeless, they would be able to deal with it, were it not for their children.

"What I can't deal with is putting my kids through this", explained one young mother, echoing the feelings of many.

An ordinary man with kids and a life crisis will have the added complication of loosing contact and there are no facilities or am I missing something.

Not all homeless men are alcholics, drug addicts or criminals.

ElleEm

CDfm wrote: »

The 16 to 18 year old's in betweeners -that must be difficult.

A person under 18 is considered a child, so can access the children's emergency services. They are way more accessible as a vulnerable child who is at risk will almost always have a social worker, if not, they have easy access to one.

CDfm wrote: »

But he was homeless and to me seemed more than a little frightened.

I don't doubt that, but what I do doubt is that a homeless hostel was charging him €15.

CDfm wrote: »

There is not a men's refuge and I have posted elsewhere the LGBT services are non existant.

So it seems to me that there are huge gaps in the services available.

Oh there are huge gaps alright. I have never heard of an LGBT specific service but I know there is a need. I have seen terrible bullying of members of the LGBT community in homeless services.

ElleEm

CDfm wrote: »

EDIT


An ordinary man with kids and a life crisis will have the added complication of loosing contact and there are no facilities or am I missing something.

Not all homeless men are alcholics, drug addicts or criminals.

There are limited facilities for homeless couples with/ without children but AFAIK they are very limited.

There are services specific to alcholics/ drug addicts or men with mental health issues but not all services are specific. It just so happens that a lot of people who are homeless have these issues, and the specific services have a small number of vacancies so the "ordinary man" will be mixed in with these service users.

charlemont

ElleEm wrote: »

Homeless hostels ARE cheap. They really only charge a token fee. It is usually around a fiver, but depending on the place, and the numbers for the night, they'll let you away without paying.

The guy was either begging, or looking to stay in a hostel hostel, not HOMELESS hostel.

Think its over €8 now for the Simon in Cork.

HovaBaby, Fair play to you for getting out of it but I know that hostel St Vincent's my friend stayed there few times around 2002 and 2003 so I probably know you.

CDfm

ElleEm wrote: »

and the specific services have a small number of vacancies so the "ordinary man" will be mixed in with these service users.

I am thinking here , a man with children , who becomes homeless with a relationship breakdown or abuse and lacks any resources will go in with these service users and will be treated the same way as them.

So there is a huge gap there.

http://news.ie.msn.com/traditional-marital-unit-in-decline

One in three Irish families no longer fits in with the model of a married couple, both of whom are in their first marriage.

This is one of many findings to emerge from a detailed statistical study of the structure of Irish families by the ESRI in collaboration with UCD.

The report found that alternative family structures are dominated by cohabiting couples and lone mothers. Together with first-time marriages, these four family types account for 92 per cent of families.

Of the 1.15 million children living in Ireland, 75 per cent live with two married parents, 18 per cent with a lone parent and 6 per cent with cohabiting parents.

The research also turns some old notions on their head. For example, the tradition of the male as the head of the house - and presumably better educated and qualified - no longer holds true.

In fact, among younger couples, women are increasingly better educated and more likely to be the higher earner.

The results of the findings are likely to have implications for future governmental policies affecting working mothers, work-life balance, the new rights and obligations of co-habitants.

Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald said the report provided a valuable insight into contemporary Irish family life.

"Understanding the modern family is critical if we are to design and deliver quality services for families and children in Ireland, which is a priority for my Department," she said.

There is a bit of a gap here alright as she does not mention fathers anywhere.

Not seeking to move the focus of the thread from Homelessness, it seems that as a group there is another gap that is not easily classified.

Morag

any parent who has kids and custody and has become homeless will access the same services and will usually end up trying to create a family life living out of a hostel or a low end B&B. Both of which have to be vacated early in the morning with the kids going to school and can not be re entered until after 7pm and there are no cooking facilities.

So you see parents with children this sort of situation with their kids in libraries trying to get home work done and using drop in centre cafe's to try and get dinner.

CDfm

I am also thinking "non custodial parents" here and the lack of facilities for men. The McDonald's Dad's etc.

There are times I wonder if those who decide on policy live in the same world as the rest of us.

If I was a policymaker I would like to think I would have the vision to ask these questions on the what we do not know as opposed to getting the answers on what we already know.

HovaBaby

later10 wrote: »

Glad to hear you're back on your feet.

Can I ask, how did you eventually move out of sheltered accommodation?

In Dublin there's a Homeless Person's Unit that can help in finding a place. I presume there is an equivalent in Cork city, or how did you manage?

My probation officer helped me get a place. I don't want to mention the place, as I feel if someone read this thread they could identify be based upon my past posts.

CDfm

Good on ya HovaBaby for getting in there and getting on track.

Interesting that the probation service helped you.

There are a multiplicity of agencies , services and supports, financial or otherwise available .

I wonder is it possible to list them and who they serve ?

Lots of people just would not know where to look or their entitlements.

The Homeless Agency produce a fairly detailed list of services

http://www.casemanagementguidebook.ie/Case-Management-Listings/Accommodation---Homelessness.aspx