Athletics Ireland - Lead Physiotherapist job

bat_573

http://hp.athleticsireland.ie/images/JD_LP_071211.pdf

Disappointing to read this. One of the main criteria seems to be a member of the Irish Society of Chartered Physiotherapists and the Sports and Exercise Medicine Group. Anyone sniff a cartel?

I think there was a thread on this board recently comparing physiotherapists and other therapists and the general consensus was that physiotherapists for the most part were inadequate when it came to treating sports injuries compared to other therapists.

Sad to see that Athletics Ireland is harbouring this kind of protectionism from physiotherapists and that the athletes will be the ones to suffer as a result of not being able to receive the best treatment through the 'system'.

Larry Brent

bat_573 wrote: »

I think there was a thread on this board recently comparing physiotherapists and other therapists and the general consensus was that physiotherapists for the most part were inadequate when it came to treating sports injuries compared to other therapists.

Did you read the roles/responsibilities? There's a lot more to the job than 'treating sports injuries'. Perhaps Chareterd Phsyiotherapists are well placed to fulfil all of those roles? As well as being regulated and insured. Looking at the selection criteria, I imagine the successful candidate will be more than adequate at treating sports injuries anyhow.

bat_573 wrote: »

the athletes will be the ones to suffer as a result of not being able to receive the best treatment through the 'system'.

I'd very much doubt that. If there is a treatment out there that is best for the individual athlete and the Chartered Physiotherapist can't provide, I'm sure the successful candidate would be able to refer/advise the athlete to that treatment (once it's safe, insured, regulated and apparently effective).

thirtyfoot

An elite HP unit should take heed of a discussion of a messageboard that doesn't allow elitism or medical discussion and is the domain of recreational road runners? I hope they don't. Cartel? Seriously. Apparently AAI were also involved in putting the bombs of the basement of the Twin Towers too.

I have met as many physical therapists who are jokers and spoofers as physios, same as any profession. If there is a doubt, I'd prefer they go down the route they are. I read that spec and went that's good, step in right direction.

ecoli

Just re-read that thread and to me many of the posters seemed to be advocating more a caveat emptor approach (let the buyer beware). I have had bad physio's and bad therapists and i would resonate KC and tRR advice in that doesn't matter which field they practice in the important factors are

A) Experience in the sport they are treating
Good reputation in treating injuries specific to the sport

Also this is a standard for Most NGB organizations across all sports in many countries.

I am with Larry and Thirtyfoot here in thinking that this application process should bring a qualified and suitable candidate that will benefit the athletes and in no way harm there chances at receiving the best care possible during injury

Krusty_Clown

bat_573 wrote: »

I think there was a thread on this board recently comparing physiotherapists and other therapists and the general consensus was that physiotherapists for the most part were inadequate when it came to treating sports injuries compared to other therapists.

I don't think there was consensus to that affect at all. AAI know what they need (a specific set of qualifications), and have called it out in the specification. They're looking for a candidate with a degree and a masters (which I presume you can only get in the field of physiotherapy) so has nothing in common with a cartel.

RacoonQueen

Physio's are the only one who can get state registration. I see your point that a physio might not necessarily be the best person for the job, but most major sporting bodies won't consider anyone other than a physio, unfortunately.

It's a shame, especially seeing as we also have a sports rehabilitation degree and an athletic training and therapy degree running in state institutions, things like that aren't helping them improve their job prospects, of which there are very few in this country anyway.

Given the selection criteria I'm sure they won't end up with the sort of physio we'd get in you average private practice anyway.

bat_573

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Physio's are the only one who can get state registration. I see your point that a physio might not necessarily be the best person for the job, but most major sporting bodies won't consider anyone other than a physio, unfortunately.

It's a shame, especially seeing as we also have a sports rehabilitation degree and an athletic training and therapy degree running in state institutions, things like that aren't helping them improve their job prospects, of which there are very few in this country anyway

That's the point I'm making. For example why are physios the only ones who can get state registration? On what basis do they see themselves as being the best to treat sports injuries?

In my experience most physios tend to put all other therapists down (athletic/physical etc) by saying things along the lines of they are "not properly qualified" or "they are not chartered" etc. If that's not some form of protectionism/cartel then what is it?

Most elite athletes prefer to see therapists who use manual therapy more because they find that type of treatment much more effective for soft tissue problems than hooking them up to stim machines and prescribing rehab exercises (which is what 90%+ of physios do).

Apologies to the very small percentage of good physios out there.

RacoonQueen

bat_573 wrote: »

That's the point I'm making. For example why are physios the only ones who can get state registration? On what basis do they see themselves as being the best to treat sports injuries?

It's the same in the UK re: state registration, even though sports therapy degrees and sports rehab degrees are very common over there. Graduates from both those programmes are believed to be better qualified to treat sports injuries than physios(funnily enough) because their knowledge of the musculoskeletal system, in general, is better than physios. Graduates of both those programmes are hired by professional clubs and physio clinics actually. There's no real job prospects for people with similar qualifications in Ireland if they don't have a physio degree.

Sports therapists and GSR's have been fighting for years in the UK to get registration with the health professions council, I think one of them is now eligible for it there.

When you read the profile for degree programmes like that, they say ''a lot of our graduates go on to study physiotherapy'' - and people do that just so they can get a job in private practice, when they have no interest in working in a hospital setting.

bat_573 wrote: »

In my experience most physios tend to put all other therapists down (athletic/physical etc) by saying things along the lines of they are "not properly qualified" or "they are not chartered" etc. If that's not some form of protectionism/cartel then what is it?

Yeah I've seen that a lot and this is very unprofessional. The Physio Company's website underlines this, it's very unprofessional to put other therapists down when you have no real experience with what they do when chatting to someone, but to do it in writing and put it on your website, numerous times, is completely out of order. Especially given the reputation the physio company have, even amongst physios.

A Physio isn't actually meant to be 'chartered' until they have 3(?) years post-grad experience in a hospital, or at least that's how it used to be. Now they all seem to be 'chartered' as soon as they graduate.

edit: There's a lot of great physio's working in hospitals, so it's unfair to say there's a small % of good physios, it's just that some in private practice(the ones we'd talk about on here) seem to be more interested in treating two people at once and such like. People will only talk about the negative experiences, such as being stuck on to a machine for 30 minutes, and will rarely talk about the physio who stayed with them putting them through the motions for 30 minutes.

Clearlier

bat_573 wrote: »

That's the point I'm making. For example why are physios the only ones who can get state registration? On what basis do they see themselves as being the best to treat sports injuries?

In my experience most physios tend to put all other therapists down (athletic/physical etc) by saying things along the lines of they are "not properly qualified" or "they are not chartered" etc. If that's not some form of protectionism/cartel then what is it?

Most elite athletes prefer to see therapists who use manual therapy more because they find that type of treatment much more effective for soft tissue problems than hooking them up to stim machines and prescribing rehab exercises (which is what 90%+ of physios do).

Apologies to the very small percentage of good physios out there.

It's not strictly a cartel but it's similar to barristers, solicitors, doctors and any 'profession' you care to name in that entry is restricted.

Physios are not the only group who can get state registration, plenty of professions have similar structures. Assuming that you're referring to physical therapists not being allowed to register I don't know the ins and outs but I can't imagine that there's anything that makes them inherently unsuited to defining themselves as a profession, it just hasn't been done yet. It's not that long since anybody could claim to be anything.

Your experience of physios is remarkably different to mine. I think that I've seen about a dozen different ones of varying quality and the only machines I remember being used are a hand held ultrasound device to help promote healing after heavy work on an injured area, a scanner to show me that I wasn't using my core muscles and a 'gait analysis' pad from a guy who appeared to know his physio (judging by his assessment) but who hadn't a notion about orthotics. I don't even know what the 'stim' machine is.

Leaving aside that most physios work in hospital settings I don't believe that 90% of sports physios are poor although I'd be disappointed if only 90% believed in prescribing rehab exercises. Anyone not prescribing exercises when they could be beneficial is just trying to get you to come back and see them as often as possible.

batmanandrobin

As a Chartered Physiotherapist, I feel some discussions on the Health Sciences forum and in places such as here paint the majority of Chartered Physiotherapists with the one brush.
I left Uni over 3 years ago and have never used a TENS, ultrasound, interferential or laser machine. I also don't buy into dry needling or acupuncture.
My philosophy is a hands on approach with a balance of soft tissue work, stretching, strengthening and collaboration with performance coaches to correct technique and improve performance while alleviating pain and correcting arthrokinematics and improving sensorimotor system function.
I sought out other bodies of work with may be frowned upon by other Chartered physiotherapists but may be accepted by other therapists. I have combined all my training and experience into a holistic care package.
The shortest any of my treatment sessions are is one hour and often they last anywhere up to 3 hours. During all that time I never leave the room unless I absolutely have to.
I think its disgraceful that both chartered and non chartered physical rehabilitators resent each other so much. I think there is much to be learned from each other but I think there needs to be a large attitude adjustment from both parties and I think it is the public at large who are suffering.
While this comment has been largely off topic, I apologize. Getting back to the OP's statement, why shouldn't the AAI elect to only offer the position to chartered physiotherapists? Should they alienate medical practitioners in favor of TCM practitioners? I think they reserve the right to seek whom THEY believe to be suitably qualified individuals. I know they wouldn't hire me because of my LIMITED experience but yet they could hire someone with 20 years experience who believes ultrasound and frictions with Maitland manipulations are the only way to treat sports injuries.

My apologies again for this post becoming a rant but the frustration of all the bickering between "professionals" has just turned my stomach. I would welcome with open arms a forum where all physical rehabilitators could put forth treatment techniques, ideas, anecdotal stories of exercises or soft tissue work that has benefitted the patient, could be shared and tried by other therapists. I might be day dreaming but the sooner politics and money stop getting in the way of patient care, the happier all of us will be!