Skiing

Lithinous

Are there any skiing courses that run during the year that a transition year student could do?

I would prefer if I got a qualification at the end but if I don't no worries. Skiing is still skiing!!

Thanks.

btw I didn't know where to post this so I put it here and in Transition Year

opinion guy

Various courses here:

http://www.basi.org.uk/index.aspx


Can you actually do this kind of thing during transition year ? Man school is way cooler than I remember it....

Fattes

Lithinous

Or you could do it through the Irish system which has identical recognition to BASI and actually has better excemptions in Switzerland.

www.iasisnowsports.ie/

Lithinous

Thanks. It looks like I missed the Level 1 in Kilternan. Also the BASI Level 1 is in England. A bit of an effort to go for artificial snow.

Is there any way that I could do Level 1 and maybe 2 in a course on real snow under 8 weeks.

Fattes

There will be another level 1 coming around in July at kilternan.

As for the 8 week option, you have tons of Gap courses. Warren Smith is one of the better ones and they run them during the summer in Switzerland and in Verbier during the winter.

There are a few of them on in other locations like Andorra etc,

opinion guy

Hmmm there is someplace in Canada does really hardcore backcountry/survival training for like 8 weeks at a go. I forget the name of the place though - might be very hardcore anyhow - don't know if they would take someone so young!
Oh costs a fortune also.

But I mean I guess what you want is some qualification that will allow you to work in ski resorts in years to come sort of thing. Fattes can probably tell you more about this, but my understanding is that the different countries are very political about recognising each others qualifications. So what you really need is to do your homework on all that kind of thing. It might be a case of picking the countries you are more interested in working in later on and targeting their training system. Learning the language probably necessary too.

thebigmc

I've been looking into instructing courses myself recently, they are expensive for definite. But you can get loads of options for gap year 10 week courses where you will have a BASI level 2 qualification at the end.

I was looking at this one as I'm going to be working nearby this season, but its a crazy price in my opinion.
http://www.peakleaders.com/courses/morzine-ski-snowboard-instructor-course/
Might be tough convincing the teachers to let you off school for 10 weeks too...

http://www.natives.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21293
Heres a really good thread about the different options for getting qualified.

Maybe there would be a possibility to do a one week BASI level 1 course for a week in the snow, then try to get some hours instructing experience or shadowing in Kilternan. You need 35 hours and a first aid course to get the level 1 qualification I think.

Lithinous

Thanks guys. I talked to my TY coordinator and the max I could go for is 3 weeks (2 weeks is fine) but I would have to learn French. I have figured that I'll leave the qualification until next time. I went to Warren Smith in the 2010 summer with my dad. I want to do his course when I older. Probably after the Leaving Cert.

I am going to try to organise a group of about 5 guys in my school to go skiing.

Any advice? I think that we might end up having to do a language course. Does any one know of a good course for French and more importantly skiing?

If there aren't any where should we go for a week of skiing?

:DSry I'm so excited.

Fattes are you fattes13 from youtube? I watched your videos of Kilternan when I was thinking of going there. Unfortunately my coach is in Italy so it's off until 2012.

opinion guy

Who's Warren Smith ?

Found his website. Meh. Any good ? Seems like an impersonator of Ali Ross to me.

Lithinous

Yeah. Warren Smith is good. I had no idea about Ali Ross so I can't really compare.

robinph

thebigmc wrote: »

I've been looking into instructing courses myself recently, they are expensive for definite. But you can get loads of options for gap year 10 week courses where you will have a BASI level 2 qualification at the end.

I was looking at this one as I'm going to be working nearby this season, but its a crazy price in my opinion.
http://www.peakleaders.com/courses/morzine-ski-snowboard-instructor-course/
Might be tough convincing the teachers to let you off school for 10 weeks too...

http://www.natives.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21293
Heres a really good thread about the different options for getting qualified.

Maybe there would be a possibility to do a one week BASI level 1 course for a week in the snow, then try to get some hours instructing experience or shadowing in Kilternan. You need 35 hours and a first aid course to get the level 1 qualification I think.

I did the Peak Leaders course in New Zealand a few years back, was the same price but well worth it I thought. The advantage of doing it in New Zealand is that you won't be needing time off from your course as it fits into the summer break for those studenty types.

Lithinous

Warren Smith has a GAP year program in Saas-Fee during the summer too.

Fattes

then try to get some hours instructing experience or shadowing in Kilternan.

Easier said than done shadowing would be easy enough if you asked the right people but the teaching not so much.

Lithinous;Yep thats me, videos are old and could do with some updating.

opinion guy; Wazza is top drawer and not because of him but his staff are incredible! Rob is on of the top instructors you will ever have and he has Andy Bennet on his coaching staff now.

Always find the Ali Ross comparisons interesting look at his home page he has a lovely A frame in his skiing which BASI say is very wrong

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

Always find the Ali Ross comparisons interesting look at his home page he has a lovely A frame in his skiing which BASI say is very wrong

Who has an A frame ? Sorry sentence confuses me

Fattes

Ali Ross skis with an A Frame! It is basically when you drop your knee on to the inside of the turn and it produces an A shape with the bottom of your legs.

When you ski with one you lose allot of the power transition to the ski. It tends to be a bad habit people use to compensate or older skiers who learned to ski on old straight skis carry over into their technique.

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

Ali Ross skis with an A Frame! It is basically when you drop your knee on to the inside of the turn and it produces an A shape with the bottom of your legs.

When you ski with one you lose allot of the power transition to the ski. It tends to be a bad habit people use to compensate or older skiers who learned to ski on old straight skis carry over into their technique.

Ok will respond to this in a minute but first, do please tell me what he shoudl be doing ?

By the way I wasn't bashing the wazze guy - I don't know anything about him - I was merely commenting that his business model appears to be the same as Ali Ross's. I mean the way he takes on clients, the way he attempts to explain biomechanics in the video (which does seem poor to me to be honest)

Fattes

biomechanics in the video (which does seem poor to me to be honest)

^ Not knocking him obviously! He works on the principal of as simple as possible.But hey I am sure when you produce your ISTD license you can contradict him :rolleyes:

He is the technique advisor for Daily mail ski and board mag and Fall Line.

Warren has one of the best reputations in the Business right now and huge commercial success and a massive amount of repeat business. The academy is one of only a handful of business allowed to run ISIA training for BASI. He has also been granted a Swiss Ski school license which is a first in the Valais without a Swiss born head of ski school.

The acadamy runs course in America, Japan Switzerland and the UK.

A Frames are probably one of the biggest No No's in the BASI teaching manual, to be honest it is going to happen from time to time particularly withe racers at hight speed But it should not be happening on every turn.

A Frame advice
http://www.epicski.com/t/50205/best-way-to-eliminate-a-frame-skiing

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

^ Not knocking him obviously! He works on the principal of as simple as possible.But hey I am sure when you produce your ISTD license you can contradict him :rolleyes:

I don't have such a licence but I do know some stuff about some things, like practical biomechanics.


Ali Ross doesn't ski with an A frame nor does he teach an A frame technique. Very exactly the opposite in fact.

Fattes

As to what he should be doing Knees should be equal distance apart and over the skis. Not tipped on to the inside of the ski.

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

As to what he should be doing Knees should be equal distance apart and over the skis. Not tipped on to the inside of the ski.

How does one angulate into a turn without having the knees move to the inside of the ski ?

Fattes

Thats Ali in the red jacket on his home page dropping his knee

http://www.alirossskiingclinics.com/

I have skied with Ali and he is a great guy but he has a tendency to drop his knee! He even uses the hand on the Knee exercise which exaggerates the motion of dropping the knee in. (The exercise has its benefits but causes bad muscle memory)


Ali is an incredible guy but there are others like Mark Jones, Sean Langmuir and Warren, doing it bigger and better than Ali is.

Things move on techniques change and people take your business model and do it better.

Fattes

How does one angulate into a turn without having the knees move to the inside of the ski ?

You initiate your turn with your hips angulating (Has nothing to do with your knees) you use your body and the hips across the skis and the inclination that is the bit you use the Knee for comes after.

Knees should be solid over the skis pushing the pressure down through the skis sweet spot. If you drop your knee in especially on the outside ski it will cause it to break away and lose grip.

The knees should not come together get closer through the turn they should stay separated and over your skis compare the photo below to the one on Ali's home page. If you look at the photo he has on the home page the skis are not following the same line, the outside ski is on a wider arc than the inside ski

http://youcanski.com/gallery/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/greg-sequence-1485-1500.jpg

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

Thats Ali in the red jacket on his home page dropping his knee

http://www.alirossskiingclinics.com/

Stationary photo. No good for analysis.

I have skied with Ali and he is a great guy but he has a tendency to drop his knee! He even uses the hand on the Knee exercise which exaggerates the motion of dropping the knee in. (The exercise has its benefits but causes bad muscle memory)

He also states that its just an stretching exercise for warming up.

Ali is an incredible guy but there are others like Mark Jones, Sean Langmuir and Warren, doing it bigger and better than Ali is.

Things move on techniques change and people take your business model and do it better.

Well I don't know the other guys and can't comment.

Fattes wrote: »

You initiate your turn with your hips angulating (Has nothing to do with your knees) you use your body and the hips across the skis and the inclination that is the bit you use the Knee for comes after.

I did not say you initiate the turn with your knees. Agree with you - hips angulating. What I am saying is that its impossible to go into strong angulation without bringing your knee over the inside edge of the ski eventually.
Exhibit A: http://www.google.ie/search?q=ski+racer+turning&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=hRi&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=9Zj7ToOUIcqEhQeE653SAQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=599

Knees should be solid over the skis pushing the pressure down through the skis sweet spot. If you drop your knee in especially on the outside ski it will cause it to break away and lose grip.

Again if you are angulating hard you have to drop the knee.

The knees should not come together get closer through the turn they should stay separated and over your skis compare the photo below to the one on Ali's home page. If you look at the photo he has on the home page the skis are not following the same line, the outside ski is on a wider arc than the inside ski

http://youcanski.com/gallery/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/greg-sequence-1485-1500.jpg

That may be his habit, what being almost 70 and all, but its not what he teaches. If you think it is - maybe you should go back to him!

For the record: he emphasizes always having weight on both feet. He emphasizes angulation. He uses the knee push in as a stretching exercise. He does not teach to bring the knees together and will often correct people who ski with feet together. He does use the push-in-the-knee exercise as an active stretch however.

Fattes

Apply your biomechanics knowledge to the photos of Shred and Bode! Look at what their hips do to compensate for the angle of their knees. Also see above comment about racers.I have all ready highlighted they do it.

Stationary photo is perfect for analysis all you are missing is context but here are some more of Ali doing the same thing!

http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/087/Purple/0a/bb/64/mzl.fnxmjjgj.320x480-75.jpg

http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/080/Purple/44/58/5a/mzl.mucvgico.320x480-75.jpg

If you tip your knee inside the arc of your ski you are going to be unbalanced and loose the grip on the ski the ski will not follow a clean arc tail following tip. (Another one of Ali's fav phrases.Over the edge is fine but not inside it A framing your knee will be inside the ski as in the photos of Ali and the racers.

Difference is the racers are traveling t + 80KPH and compensating by twisting their hips. Not ideal but it works

Visual learners will here Ali say one thing and do another following his actions not his words.

Just to give you context I am an instructor with a full Alpine race qualification. Ali is a great guy but times have moved on and people are doing it better.

Witnessed Peter Lunn ski at 4 years ago in Murren aged 93 technically it was terrible but he looked fantastic and was having fun.

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

Apply your biomechanics knowledge to the photos of Shred and Bode! Look at what their hips do to compensate for the angle of their knees. Also see above comment about racers.I have all ready highlighted they do it.

Stationary photo is perfect for analysis all you are missing is context but here are some more of Ali doing the same thing!

http://a1.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/087/Purple/0a/bb/64/mzl.fnxmjjgj.320x480-75.jpg

http://a3.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/080/Purple/44/58/5a/mzl.mucvgico.320x480-75.jpg

If you tip your knee inside the arc of your ski you are going to be unbalanced and loose the grip on the ski the ski will not follow a clean arc tail following tip. (Another one of Ali's fav phrases.Over the edge is fine but not inside it A framing your knee will be inside the ski as in the photos of Ali and the racers.

You are ignoring angular momentum pushing the person out of the curve.

Difference is the racers are traveling t + 80KPH and compensating by twisting their hips. Not ideal but it works

Well that is the point. He himself will say you need speed to angulate. If its not ideal - at 80kph+ what is the alternative ?

Visual learners will here Ali say one thing and do another following his actions not his words.

He talks alot about the difference between seeing and feeling.

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

He even uses the hand on the Knee exercise which exaggerates the motion of dropping the knee in. (The exercise has its benefits but causes bad muscle memory)

opinion guy wrote: »

He also states that its just an stretching exercise for warming up.

He does use the push-in-the-knee exercise as an active stretch however.

Actually I must correct both myself and yourself.

He does not teach the hand on the knee exercise. He teaches the hand on the thigh exercise. Which has an entirely different effect. If you watch him do it his hand is most definitely on his thigh and not his knee. For some reason I didn't get that the first time I went. But when I did wow subsequently it makes a big difference.

How many times were you with him ? If only once - I highly recommend going again. The higher level stuff he teaches massively builds on the first level stuff and it all comes together in a way I can't easily put into words.


Edit:
Found this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/snowandski/8914901/Ski-tuition-how-to-escape-from-the-skiing-plateau.html

The first exercise is simple, and is aimed at getting the ski off its flat sole and on to its edge. On gentle, wide terrain, you set off on a traverse. All you have to do is press the thigh of the uphill leg progressively inwards as you move through the turn, allowing the ski to do its work.

Fattes

opinion guy; Perhaps you should better form your opinions!!!

I normally get the opportunity to ski with him once a year at different industry events. You may need to be sure of my qualifications and as you have all ready highlighted if you don't know who the other guys I referenced above are you may want to educate yourself a little more.

I was once quite flatteringly compared to Ali by a wonderful Scottish gentleman I had the opportunity to ski with in Canada, i was quite embarrassed at the time as I am sure my standard was not in keeping with the compliment back then.

Ali mainly caters to Intermediate to advanced recreational skiers, he does not offer services for instructors/athletes as allot of the other guys i referenced do.

His methods have not changed much over the years and are perfect for a particular demographic of skiers. The point you are missing is that he has fallen behind. He is by no means the best on the market right now but that is not to say there is anything wrong with his product.

As for the exercise I was referring to the one where he has students place both their fists between their knees.

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

As for the exercise I was referring to the one where he has students place both their fists between their knees.

!!
Never even heard of that exercise and certainly not from Ross.

Look I'm not questioning your qual's or experience, but I am still waiting for you to tell me how you are supposed to take a turn at 80kph without rolling you knee over the outside of the ski ? (genuinely I'd like to know so i can try it)

Fattes

but I am still waiting for you to tell me how you are supposed to take a turn at 80kph without rolling you knee over the outside of the ski ? (genuinely I'd like to know so i can try it)

You are not that was the original point normal recreational skiers should be able to do it but once you go above the 70/80KPH threshold racers compensate with twisting the hips etc.

Normal rec skiers should not need to do it with the speed and the centrifugal and centripetal forces they experience should not require a need to a frame

opinion guy

Fattes wrote: »

You are not that was the original point normal recreational skiers should be able to do it but once you go above the 70/80KPH threshold racers compensate with twisting the hips etc.

Normal rec skiers should not need to do it with the speed and the centrifugal and centripetal forces they experience should not require a need to a frame

Lol....you and I have different definitions of 'recreational' it seems