Pop-up Shops!

YouBuyLocal

Hi All,

Has anyone set up a pop-up shop before? Are there any restrictions? I am wondering if the council manage them or do individual landlords? If landlords allow people to set up pop-up shops for a day at a time, say if five people set up a pop-up shop in a week it would be one each day? Is there still planning involved? If I want to distribute veg out of one would the local veg shop object, even if it was just for a day? Anyone ever distributed food out of a pop-up shop?

Very strange question I know, but I am working on a potentially innovative solution to a couple of problems.

Thanks,
C

Nuttzz

Once planning is in place that the pop shop can be anything it wants to be, the council wont give a monkeys so long as 1. it is within planning guidelines, 2. they are getting their rates

YouBuyLocal

Thanks for the response but what does

within planning guidelines

mean exactly? Do they care if you are competing with other shops?

neris

the only people who care if your competiting with similar businesses will be landlords who own shopping centres or a number of units with a business similar to yours already in place. As was said all councils want is their rates

YouBuyLocal

Cool, thanks

Chet Zar

Always wonder why we aren't seeing more of this, especially with the umpteen empty units around every town centre in the country? Surely landlords would be glad of some rent and activity, rather than a premises just lying empty and doing nothing for nobody?

YouBuyLocal

I reckon someone might be able to come up with a plan to put them to use, maybe this could be the thread where people throw out ideas!

I have one, but I'll let someone else go first

P.S. I reckon there could be a lot done because of communitications. Now you can plan for them, like have a platform showing what pop-up shops are going to be where on any given day/week, so they are known before "popping up"

YouBuyLocal

communitications?

Nuttzz

YouBuyLocal wrote: »

Thanks for the response but what does mean exactly? Do they care if you are competing with other shops?

As in if you are selling hot food/cafe you need planning permission for that however if you are selling staples or printer cartridges you just need standard retail planning permission for that

YouBuyLocal

Yes, I would expect cooked food to be regulated, but what about raw food like veg and meat? Can you deliver boxes of ice-packed meat and distribute?

Say pay for a box of meat online (yes, people do this!) and I want to collect it in a central location rather than get it delivered. Could a pop-up shop be used as a cashless shop where everything is pre-purchased? Kind of like Argos

Nuttzz

I cant see an issue with that if they are consumed off the premises?

What is the life span of this pop up shop, I'm thinking that you can always apply for temporary change of use if it comes to that

YouBuyLocal

Answer: About a day, the object would be that the shop would be rented out for a week and five different producers would use it one day per week.

Ok, I am just going to throw it all out there because I am never one for holding in an idea. I think for proper innovation ideas need to be shared in order to be refined and perfected... or debunked if necessary.

Probably won't get responses anyha.

Consumers buy veg & meat boxes from an online store, then producers deliver those custom boxes each morning. All payments are online and the consumer decides which day they'd like to collect. Cashless shop is manned by one person at a time at €10 per hour for 12 hours per day, 10am-10pm.

Estimated (Over-estimated) cost of running cashless shop is approximately €1200 per week all costs included if you want to have it open all day long, which you probably don't. On back-of-the-napkin estimates, boxes sell at:
€10(expl: veg - one weeks worth, two people)
€20(expl: veg & preserves/condiments)
€40(expl: veg, dairy & preserves/condiments)
€80(expl: veg, dairy, meat & preserves/condiments)
€120(expl: veg, dairy, meat & preserves/condiments, etc - family of 4)
€160(expl: veg, dairy, meat & preserves/condiments, etc - large family)

Average sales at a market in one day are €340 for a producer according to Bord Bia. If I'm a small producer I could deliver 50 boxes of fresh veg (one weeks worth for two people) and get 500 squids, 10% of which would go to the shop, 10% cost of online sales, 20% for van delivery in the morning(over-estimating at €100) and 10% contingency.

Can I get 50 customers to buy my veg online and pick it up every week? That is 50 households with two people in an area of 20,000 houses, say a town like Cavan town, and that is way about what a producer normally would get.

€300 and none of the headaches of organising a stall at a market.

If you get 50 households in the are out of 20,000 every day to buy weekly veg boxes then you get €250 for the shop.

If you get 100 households per week to buy boxes at €20, 100 households at €40, 50 at €80 (same % cost of sale, delivery and contingency) 30 at €120 and 20 at €160 then altogether you get another €1680, well covering cost of the shop by €930.

That is 550 households out of 20,000. Is that possible? Bord Bia says 12% of the population buys at farmers markets and that is only 2.75% of households right there.

Everything can be run using online software including sales, inventory systems, marketing, branding, social media, etc, etc...

From the consumers perspective:

1) Convenience, pre-bought, drop in with collection number received in an e-mail or just ID or credit card or what ever, point is no cash, find my box or let person manning shop and pick it up straight away, easy-peasy.

2) Top quality produce - Seasonal food, you choose what you like and don't like based on the producer's online inventory system - as consumers buy it and he marks it down it becomes less available and more in demand

3) lower prices due to efficiency savings in distribution, only stock in the shop is already bought, no waste on their part.

4) Choice - If a producer is crap/unreliable/puts bad veg in my box, I can go with a better one, lots of choice

5) More choice - none of the limitations of supermarket choice, ever wanted an unusual vegetable or condiment but couldn't get it because of lack of demand? Well the producer can make it or grow it and only distribute it if you ask, no head-ache of delivering products that don't sell

6) Quality/safety/healthy - Fresh picked veg straight from a farm which is absolutely & unambiguously traceable and fully certified and compliant with health regs. All certs, awards and networks or organisations that I am a member of are displayed publically on my profile, so no need to worry for the consumer like they might at a market

7) If two or more producers (e.g. dairy & veg) I can get a mixed box (meat, veg, dairy, etc) packed in ice-boxes.

That is idealistic, but if anyone has any solid contradictions, places where I am completely off the ball, please let me know.

RATM

Sounds like a good idea YouBuyLocal. Part of the deal could be that the person manning the shop also sells products to passers-by- you don't want to be telling walk-in customers that the veg boxes they see are only for sale online.

Provided you're confident that you can get 50 families into this then it could be successful.

However one thing to consider is that you're competing with Farmer's Markets. You've got to ask yourself if one of the main reasons people go to such markets is to meet the producers themselves, have a bit of craic with them. For some people at least this is part of the experience. For this bunch of people you're taking away the unique shopping experience and therefore you may never see their custom. But you could be a very attractive prospect for families who do not like supermarket fruit & veg and would like a quick and convenient service to bypass the multiples.

YouBuyLocal

RATM wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea YouBuyLocal. Part of the deal could be that the person manning the shop also sells products to passers-by- you don't want to be telling walk-in customers that the veg boxes they see are only for sale online.

Provided you're confident that you can get 50 families into this then it could be successful.

However one thing to consider is that you're competing with Farmer's Markets. You've got to ask yourself if one of the main reasons people go to such markets is to meet the producers themselves, have a bit of craic with them. For some people at least this is part of the experience. For this bunch of people you're taking away the unique shopping experience and therefore you may never see their custom. But you could be a very attractive prospect for families who do not like supermarket fruit & veg and would like a quick and convenient service to bypass the multiples.

I think you are correct about the farmers market goers but I don't see it as competing with them per say. I see it competing against the multiples on the basis of convenience.

I am working with a Tipperary organic beef producer who has been selling online for 8 years to devise the system. We have the software people and some 30 signed up producers, we just need to develop the platform and get the orders, as if it were that simple:P He believes he can get down to supermarket prices if he delivers 50 boxes and that is high quality organic beef at regular supermarket beef prices. The quantity would be around €45 worth of beef in a good butcher. So we believe you could get a box of meat, condiments, dairy, fruit/veg for two people for a week for €80 if 50 people buy them and collect them in the same day.

The food would not be on display. It has to be boxed and sealed, so passers by would very quickly see it wasn't a normal shop.

But lets say I can't make it one day after ordering the box, then I can call or text on the system to release it and if it gets sold then I get credit. The list of contents of the box would be on the outside.

The box must be paid for with a deposit. Deposit is returned on return of box, as these would have to be special ice boxes with compartments.

The shop owner could sell anything they like after that. If they want to sell bananas or chocolate or bread once he is reasonably confident of the footfall he can up sell them as much as he likes.

Any that feels like picking this apart and telling me I'm a utopian fool please feel free, but I'd love a proper analysis if anyone was interested in giving it some thought.

And you need 500 households involved each week at different levels of purchases to make it viable, not 50

antoinolachtnai

You are talking a big concept here. I basically think it is a good concept, but you will need a good bit of scale and marketing to make it work. You are going directly against the traditional model of how fresh goods are sold, i.e., by the customer examining the goods before purchase.

I don't think using the retail premises as a delivery point is such a good idea. You really need to deliver closer to home or office if you ask me.

The retail presence and marketing/communications would have to be very good to get the mainstream on board to buy. If you were not a delivery point, the sensible thing would seem to be to have a very high end retail location with an awful lot of footfall. You would also have to have a way to let customers experience the product.

YouBuyLocal

True, not experiencing the product is a big minus. Many customers won't go for it due to the lack of control and the lack of tactile

BUT, it is not fundamental. The relationship and trust a consumer has with the producer can replace that, potentially. There a lot of things that trust is based upon, the certifications, branding, familiarity with the real person through online video and blogs, recipes, farm tourism and other on-farm activities such as courses classes, etc.

Remember, we are only talking about 500 households in each 50 towns in Ireland, that is 25,000 households supplied by 500 producers out of 1.4m households. That has got to be feasible!?! And if the model is proved then it can only go up from there and expanded into other jurisdictions. We're never gonna get the mass-market but more than one system can exist simultaneously. The pieces fit, the software can be developed, the producers can be convinced, its just the consumers that we need to organise.

But this is an advanced stage, we are going to work through existing infrastructure until the software is developed to manage the inventory & sales platform.

Tangled

I like the idea of it. One thing for me is that the pick up point would have to be somewhere I could swing by easily on my way home from work, park at the door no hassle and run in to collect it. If I have to go in to a town centre, find parking etc then forget about it, would prefer a delivery service.

I like the thinking behind it though, and wish you luck with it.

YouBuyLocal

Tangled wrote: »

I like the idea of it. One thing for me is that the pick up point would have to be somewhere I could swing by easily on my way home from work, park at the door no hassle and run in to collect it. If I have to go in to a town centre, find parking etc then forget about it, would prefer a delivery service.

I like the thinking behind it though, and wish you luck with it.

Farmigo.com

Yes, rent would be lower outside of town as well, and there are reasons why Tesco, Supervalu and the like fight for the major routes into towns.

But here is the thing, pick-up locations can be anywhere.

1) Schools
2) Business Parks
3) Commercial parks outside towns (lots of empty ones in most towns now)
4) In towns

You decide where you want your box to go. If you don't drive and live in a town then you can get it on the main street. If you do drive and work out of town then you can pick up at a commercial depot out side. Quick 'n easy, quicker 'n a supermarket!

One stipulation is that you have to agree with the producer, he has to confirm the order. If he only has 5 customers at that particular depot then he ain't dropping your box off there. So you have to find a different producer that does.

Another issue is that you don't get your cleaning equipment, tooth brushes, washing up powder and all the other nice stuff we get in supermarkets, but they aren't things we get every week are they?

I mean you can get soap local easy enough, lots of elegant artisan soap producers around Ireland.

Thanks for the response, its all running around my head and I'll love to get some objective feedback

antoinolachtnai

There are really two networks of locations you are talking about, sales and distribution. These are different. For the sales, I think the closest comparator would be mobile phone shops. They are well located and only exist to market and sell. Once you have the phone, you mostly deal with the contact centre.

I would aim for home or office delivery.

Most customers will want produce from more than one producer. So you need a central facility to make up the boxes.

You need to focus on the most affluent areas. It is basically a product for the affluent in the early years. Blackrock, Ranelagh and Dundrum are the sorts of place you would be targeting.

If you has the opportunity to sell non-perishables, this is much easier than selling perishables.

There are a few operations a bit like this in the US and also in London and a few have built up some scale.

YouBuyLocal

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

There are really two networks of locations you are talking about, sales and distribution. These are different. For the sales, I think the closest comparator would be mobile phone shops. They are well located and only exist to market and sell. Once you have the phone, you mostly deal with the contact centre.

I would aim for home or office delivery.

Most customers will want produce from more than one producer. So you need a central facility to make up the boxes.

You need to focus on the most affluent areas. It is basically a product for the affluent in the early years. Blackrock, Ranelagh and Dundrum are the sorts of place you would be targeting.

If you has the opportunity to sell non-perishables, this is much easier than selling perishables.

There are a few operations a bit like this in the US and also in London and a few have built up some scale.

We are developing the software, not the distribution network. We are working with a producer who is setting up the central order processing & distribution system for 25 producers around the country.

We want to create the inventory & ecommerce platform and consumer interface, kind of like Amazon. So we would not be concentrating on anywhere in particular.

As far as this being primarily for affluent areas, I don't believe so. The growth of GIY Ireland hasn't been particularly to do with affluence. If we can reduce prices through efficiency savings then I see no problem in developing the system for the mass-market, with a lot of affiliate marketing.

Also, people are always predicting what the "mass-market" will like. Yeah you're right, there is a perception out there that farmers markets are expensive, but not among regular goers. I get my veg from a lad that sells out of a van n Cavan and he is literally half the price of the Supermarkets, with a close relationship with producers. He sells high volume and the fact that he may pay a little less tax can't account for the price different.

I think new forms of affiliate marketing and group deals can break the perception of this being an affluent person's market.