Bringing in foreign registered cars

skinny90

im not sure if this was mentioned before so sorry if it was, but why do people bring in foreign registered cars?seen about three or four today,one guy was driving infront of us tried overtaking the car infront of him at least 5 times and narrowly missed two or three uncomming cars because he had to drive fully on the other side to see if it was clear.and so it really got me thinking....
is it worth it?
for the sake of the drivers safty and other drivers would it not make logical and financial sense to sell the car before they leave ther country and buy one here?

TeddyTedson

It's a strange one. I don't know why they allow it

kylith

I'd imagine that it's because when someone's moving to a different country they tend to want to bring a lot of stuff with them, clothes, books, etc, so it makes sense to bring their car. It should be re-registered in Ireland within a few months.

They could be tourists. Or they could be tax dodgers. More likely Option No. 2 I'd imagine.

skinny90

tourists i can understand or even students but alot of cases i think its genuinely people who have moved from countries mainly eastern eu states to here.i see alot of them have irish plates too.can you imagine the effort of trying to sell them in ireland

kylith

So they drive them for a few years, then sell them for scrap.

Conall Cernach

The cost of buying a car in Ireland is far more than buying one practically any other part of Europe so I imagine that the driver of the foreign registered car is trying to save a few bob.

skinny90

even with vrt?

mathepac

If they've owned and used the car in their home country before moving here, there is no VRT due

--Kaiser--

mathepac wrote: »

If they've owned and used the car in their home country before moving here, there is no VRT due

Never heard that, how do you prove it?

44leto

Buying a second hand or new car in the north, bringing it down and paying the VRT, the savings are quite substantial. I would have done it myself if I knew more about cars and I if I was in a position to buy a new car.

Plus you get all the bells and whistles as standard in the UK while you pay extra here. But I haven't seen the details but the budget is trying to stop people from doing that.

Animord

kylith wrote: »

I'd imagine that it's because when someone's moving to a different country they tend to want to bring a lot of stuff with them, clothes, books, etc, so it makes sense to bring their car. It should be re-registered in Ireland within a few months.

24 hours actually, I know - I got done for it and had to spend a lot of time sweet talking myself out of a fine.

Guy:Incognito

Conall Cernach wrote: »

The cost of buying a car in Ireland is far more than buying one practically any other part of Europe so I imagine that the driver of the foreign registered car is trying to save a few bob.

That really isnt true. 2nd hand cars in places like Germany and Holland are mad money.


Not all foreign registered cars are left hand drive either. Sure theres a country just above us there that drives on the left too.

skinny90

to my knowledge you must have an address in the north if you going to save money on vrt,and i think (dont quote me on this)its one car per person,government clamped down on this about 3-4 years ago.regarding foreign countries i was about central europe but mainly eastern europe on mainly cars brought in.seems to be most popular(to me anyways)

--Kaiser--

skinny90 wrote: »

for the sake of the drivers safty and other drivers would it not make logical and financial sense to sell the car before they leave ther country and buy one here?

I drive a Japanese car, though it's fully registered here.
Japanese cars are often in much better state than similar Irish cars, they don't use salt on their roads so they have little to no rust. The Japanese version of the NCT is extremely stringent so they are generally kept in good nick.
(They drive on the same side of the road too)

Schism

In some cases a car enthusiast might be looking for a certain model of car, unable to find it in Ireland they have to import. Rarer than some of the other reasons here but still a reason.

skinny90

Schism wrote: »

In some cases a car enthusiast might be looking for a certain model of car, unable to find it in Ireland they have to import. Rarer than some of the other reasons here but still a reason.

ya i suppose,my experience this morning of a guy nearly hitting the two cars was'nt a car enthusiast with his polish/lithuanian toyota carina

mathepac

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Never heard that, how do you prove it?

In the case of someone moving to Ireland permanently, Customs ask to see bank statements, payslips, utility bills, vehicle registration documents, invoices, etc, etc. at the point of entry. The car must be re-registered here within a specified time and cannot be sold for at least 12 months

Sonnenblumen

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I drive a Japanese car, though it's fully registered here.
Japanese cars are often in much better state than similar Irish cars, they don't use salt on their roads so they have little to no rust. The Japanese version of the NCT is extremely stringent so they are generally kept in good nick.
(They drive on the same side of the road too)

Read in the newspaper today that secondhand Japanese cars are being checked for radiation before being exported:eek:

Another item to watch out in the unscrupulous trade of secondhand imports!

Beware warm seats!!:D

Damokc

Didn't read most of the replies but is the OPs gripe with LEFT HAND DRIVE cars more than foreign cars? My dream is to own a Lancia Delta Integrale HF before I die. All LHD bar a handful that were changed over in the factory but are worth less because of this as they're not 100% original.

subway

Animord wrote: »

24 hours actually, I know - I got done for it and had to spend a lot of time sweet talking myself out of a fine.

It's a lot longer now that it's outsorced.

My only other comment is that the thread title needs to be changed to lhd from foreign as the thread is all over the place

skinny90

Damokc wrote: »

Didn't read most of the replies but is the OPs gripe with LEFT HAND DRIVE cars more than foreign cars? My dream is to own a Lancia Delta Integrale HF before I die. All LHD bar a handful that were changed over in the factory but are worth less because of this as they're not 100% original.

yes sorry i got carried away,it is,i just dont understand why people bring them over with them with all the hassle of
a) trying to overtake-its bad enough with the state of most the roads
b)putting their own lives aswell as others in danger in doing so
c)getting it registered and then if possibly havn to sell it in the future

is it just me or would it not make sense to sell the car and then move to another county and buy one when get over here

biko

From After Hours

CiniO

skinny90 wrote: »

im not sure if this was mentioned before so sorry if it was, but why do people bring in foreign registered cars?seen about three or four today,one guy was driving infront of us tried overtaking the car infront of him at least 5 times and narrowly missed two or three uncomming cars because he had to drive fully on the other side to see if it was clear.and so it really got me thinking....
is it worth it?
for the sake of the drivers safty and other drivers would it not make logical and financial sense to sell the car before they leave ther country and buy one here?

Skinny90 - I'll answer few of your question in this thread.
I assume you are concerned about cars from Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, etc..... They are all mostly LHD.

1. People bring them here, as for many it's easier. If you are moving to Ireland, you want to take a bit of your stuff with you, which 15kg limit in ryanair is not suitable. Car's boot is way large. You can bring your stuff, and you can have a car straight away, without all the hassle of buying one, which usually isn't easy. You need to shop around, see few cars, pay Irish insurance and tax which is usually big problem. I remember buying my first car in Ireland was a joke. I lived in very rural area, without any car and no buses as well. Me and my girlfriend went to the town in a bus with few advertisments in hand, and had to choose something. In the end it wasn't a best choice, but there was nothing we could do, as we didn't have any other mean of transport to travel to see any other cars. If we brought a car from Poland with us, it would be way easier.

2. Cost. Insurance and tax in Ireland are among the most expensive in EU. For someone who is coming here from Eastern Europe, to pay annual tax and insurance on Irish car, could be a half year salary from their home country. If someone is coming here just to look for a job, that's surely something they can't afford. Cost of maintinging a car in Poland f.e. is way lower. Insurance might be as low as €75 per year. No road tax.


3. To overtake with LHD in Ireland you need to keep way bigger distance to the car in front of you, to see and do it safely. Usually drivers don't know it, and you are right that they endanger themselves, and others on the road. The same problem exists in Eastern European countries, where especially over Christmas or summer holidays, there's good few cars from UK and Ireland. Like in Poland people living in UK and Ireland drive home to Poland in their RHD cars for holidays. Very often it endangers traffic, as they overtake dangerously, by not having a proper view.
Even more - in Poland it's forbidden to register an RHD car, so only RHD cars are visitors, or people who live there and imported car from UK or Ireland and drive it with valid UK or Irish Insurance and MOT/NCT. However even though there isn't any legal limit how long you can drive in foreign car, the cost of driving Irish or UK registered car in Poland is huge comparing to one registered locally, so barely anyone does that.

4. You can drive very safely LHD car in Ireland, and vice versa, but some people are just not responsible enough.

CiniO

skinny90 wrote: »

.can you imagine the effort of trying to sell them in ireland

There's actually a quite big demend on RHD cars in Ireland now, from people who are leaving Ireland and moving to the Continent.

CiniO

Conall Cernach wrote: »

The cost of buying a car in Ireland is far more than buying one practically any other part of Europe so I imagine that the driver of the foreign registered car is trying to save a few bob.

If it comes to brand new car - probably you are right.
When it comes to second hand - especially something like 8 years old or over it's different. Cars like this, in Ireland very often cost only fraction of what they are worth on the Continent.

CiniO

skinny90 wrote: »

ya i suppose,my experience this morning of a guy nearly hitting the two cars was'nt a car enthusiast with his polish/lithuanian toyota carina

You should have reported him.
I've heard (and seen) so many bad things about Polish drivers on Irish road, and I strongly believe most of this is unfortunately true.
Driving ethique in Poland is way worse than in Ireland - so I believe that drivers from Poland might be seen in Ireland as dangerous.

Mike 1972

I live in NI and bought a car in the Republic (Not sure if its still the case but at the time if one was VRT exempt it worked out a good bit cheaper to do so)

At the time I was saving nearly three grand (Sterling) but subsequently discovered two snags.

1) Many manufacturers assign totally different model numbers to cars sold in the Republic (even though they are completly identical to their UK equivalents in every other respect*) Many insurance companies on seeing a model number thats not on their list say "computer says no" and assume your vehicle doesnt actually exist. This limits ones choice of insurance companies thereby leaving one open to being seriously ripped off.
2) If one has to go to a (NI) dealer to get any work on your car they (at best) realise your car is an import model, decide you are the scum of the earth and (allegedly) exploit an opportunity to rip one off. at worst they can invent all manner of non existant problems with ordering parts etc.

* There may be slight technical differences nowadays over the prominance given to imperial/metric units in speedometer displays.

CiniO wrote: »

Driving ethique in Poland is way worse than in Ireland.

Have you ever actually been to Poland ?

CiniO

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Have you ever actually been to Poland ?

A few times

In total would be probably about 25 years

keithclancy

Moved to Holland with my Irish car, it was fantastic being able to load up the car with the seats down and drive everything over.

Steering wheel on the wrong side isn't really an issue, just don't go if its not safe.

Same when I drive back to Ireland now in my Dutch car, its no more dangerous than a RHD.

Only pain in the arse is Multistory car parks and Maccy Dees drive thru.

I can jump from a LHD into a RHD and it makes no difference to me now.

The only thing that catches me out is remembering over here its always give way to the right when theres no signage, even at t-junctions and then in Ireland have to remember that the major road gets priority.

Saying that, Ireland is DIRT cheap for owning a car compared to here, roadtax on the Octavia was around 520 a year, here its over 1200 a year

eth0

I have two LHD cars, both imported from Holland. Sometimes you can't get stuck behind someone cause you can't see but its not a big deal. I actually prefer LHD now but don't mind RHD either, doesn't get long to get used to when driving one again

mcwhirter

Mainland Europeans think we drive on the wrong side of the road. Do they feel the same when we do the same driving in their countries?

mcwhirter

keithclancy wrote: »

Moved to Holland with my Irish car, it was fantastic being able to load up the car with the seats down and drive everything over.

Steering wheel on the wrong side isn't really an issue, just don't go if its not safe.

Same when I drive back to Ireland now in my Dutch car, its no more dangerous than a RHD.

Only pain in the arse is Multistory car parks and Maccy Dees drive thru.

I can jump from a LHD into a RHD and it makes no difference to me now.

The only thing that catches me out is remembering over here its always give way to the right when theres no signage, even at t-junctions and then in Ireland have to remember that the major road gets priority.

Saying that, Ireland is DIRT cheap for owning a car compared to here, roadtax on the Octavia was around 520 a year, here its over 1200 a year

1220/year for tax on a octavia, its mad. Speed cameras originated from the Netherlands too, thought it was bad here!!

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Only pain in the arse is Multistory car parks and Maccy Dees drive thru.

Once I got a serious pain in my back after trying to bend to reach my bigmac from the left window in RHD car in Poland.
After that next time I just reversed all way through the mcdonalds drive-through lane to get my burger from my side... Can't say the guys over the counter weren't laughing.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Saying that, Ireland is DIRT cheap for owning a car compared to here, roadtax on the Octavia was around 520 a year, here its over 1200 a year

All right.
So probably Ireland is second most expensive in EU (motortax) just after Netherland.

Yawlboy

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Never heard that, how do you prove it?

If you can prove you have owned a car in a foreign country (where you have been living) for 6 months you can import it VRT free. However you have to keep it here for 12 months before you can sell it. I know that because we did it.

Mike 1972

LIGHTNING wrote: »

He is Polish

Obviously would have to bow to his wider experience then.

The impression I got my couple of visits were that driving standards were not noticibly worse (although I did witness one lunatic cycling on a motorway hard shoulder on a frosty night). However the speed limits on non-mtorway roads were set ridiculously low (even accounting for many of the roads not being particularly great) with the result that everybody completly ignored them unless there were police or signs warning about "fotoradar" around.

When It came to driving in inclement/extreme weather they knew what they were at.

However in normal weather I suppose any gap in driving standards could possibly be down to widespread private car ownership being a fairly recent phenomonen and consequently maybe not many highly experienced drivers around ???

IIRC the Polish driving test, and equivalent of the NCT/MOT are more stringent though and my stories about test amnesties and unaccompanied drivers on second provisionals aroused much amusment.

CiniO

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Obviously would have to bow to his wider experience then.



The impression I got my couple of visits were that driving standards were not noticibly worse (although I did witness one lunatic cycling on a motorway hard shoulder on a frosty night).

Maybe it's not a driving standards are worse. But there is definitely more drivers (than in Ireland) who completely don't give a hell about any regulations, and drive like complete lunatics. It's mostly due to penalties for road traffic offences being relatively low, and chances of getting a driving ban are very little, unless you do drink driving. You would never loose your licence for speeding or dangerous overtaking like in Ireland, even if speeding would be like doing 200km/h in 50km/h zone.
There is penalty points system in place, but it's not such severe as in Ireland (your points get erased after a year instead of 3 years). And even if you exceed penalty points limit, you don't get driving ban, but just have to pass your driving test again to keep your licence. (which sometimes is actually not easy, as examiner knows that you are passing because you exceeded points, and usually makes everything he can to fail you).

However the speed limits on non-mtorway roads were set ridiculously low (even accounting for many of the roads not being particularly great) with the result that everybody completly ignored them unless there were police or signs warning about "fotoradar" around.

Normal speed limit on non-motorway roads outside built up area is 90km/h. There are however plenty of additional speed limits, before any junctions, dangerous bends, hills, etc, usually down to 70km/h, or sometimes even less. Additionally the same like in Ireland, you are passing through towns and villages, and limit goes down to 50km/h there.
And you are absolutely right that people completely ignore this speed limits, but that leads to dangerous situations of people trying to keep a speed of about 120 - 140km/h on normal 1x1 road overtaking dangerously very often and sometimes pushing oncoming cars to the hard shoulder.
Tailgating is as well very popular, for some unknown reason to me. Probably because so many people do it, they consider it's nothing wrong. I don't know really - I never could understand this phenomen.

When It came to driving in inclement/extreme weather they knew what they were at.

If you are talking about winter conditions - yes definitely they know more than Irish drivers, mostly due to fact that there are severe winters in Poland almost every year, and driving on snow and ice isn't anything new to Polish drivers.
However driving in heavy rain is definitely something Irish drivers do better.

However in normal weather I suppose any gap in driving standards could possibly be down to widespread private car ownership being a fairly recent phenomonen and consequently maybe not many highly experienced drivers around ???

I wouldn't say it's a fairly recent phenomonen.
Obviously there was increase in number of private cars over last 7 years since importing second hand cars from western europe became cheap due to hefty import duty being abolished after Poland joined EU, but I don't think there is more inexperienced drivers in Poland than in Ireland.
Surely in Ireland 10 - 15 years ago, there weren't so many people driving as there are now anyway.

I think that change of political system in 1989 had a big effect on what's happening on the roads.
In beginning of 90's there vast majority of Polish society was still very poor after communism, and they were usually driving fiat 126, which would be relatively slow car.
On the other hand, there were some people who in new system got rich very quickly, and they could afford new nice fast cars, and they as well could afford to pay all the penalties for speeding, etc, even if they had to pay them everyday. After penalty points system was introduced, they could always give a bribe to policman, not to include points in the penalty.
Those people started driving like mad, without any consideration for any rules, between ordinary people driving normally in their old slow cars.
It's just they were doing it, because they could easily afford it.
Years passed by, and more and more people could afford newer, better and faster cars, so more and more started driving like mad.
At some stage police were unable to do anything, as there was too many drivers breaking rules of the road, comparing to number of police force.
I think the peak time was about 1997, and since then it's getting better and better.
Speeding, overtaking where forbidden (continuous line, etc), and tailgating are probably the most common offences on Polish roads. And even though since end of 90's situation improved really a lot, is still improving, and number of drivers who drive without any consideration for rules of the road had fallen significently, I think there still at least 5 times more of that kind of drivers in Poland than in Ireland, who drive like maniacs.

Say in Poland 5 in 100 drivers will drive like mad, while in Ireland it would be only 1 in 100.
That really makes a difference, even though in both countries vast majority of drivers drive OK.

IIRC the Polish driving test, and equivalent of the NCT/MOT are more stringent though and my stories about test amnesties and unaccompanied drivers on second provisionals aroused much amusment.

Driving test most likely is stricter in Poland than in Ireland. Or at least that's my view after I've seen people in Ireland driving after passing the test, and they actually couldn't really drive. I don't believe these drivers would pass a driving test in Poland with such skills.

But car tests is completely different story to Irish NCT. Even though test requirement are similar, half of those things are not really checked on the test in practice. I recall myself being told by tester who was just stamping my yearly cert, that I have a oil leak, and he advices to fix it. But the test was passed.
Things like passing the test on a car which really shouldn't pass, in exchange for double test fee, is not uncommon (or at least was few years ago - I'm not sure how does it look now).

Mike 1972

CiniO wrote: »

Normal speed limit on non-motorway roads outside built up area is 90km/h. There are however plenty of additional speed limits, before any junctions, dangerous bends, hills, etc, usually down to 70km/h, or sometimes even less. Additionally the same like in Ireland, you are passing through towns and villages, and limit goes down to 50km/h there.
And you are absolutely right that people completely ignore this speed limits, but that leads to dangerous situations of people trying to keep a speed of about 120 - 140km/h on normal 1x1 road.

Most of the speed limits I encountered were either 70km/h or 40km/h most of the drivers seemed to be exceeding this by 20-25 Km/h although doing so while illegal did not seem (in good weather) to be particularly dangerous as the speed limits seemed to be a tad over-conservative. On the other hand the did seem to be making more of an effort to reflect the actual quality of the roads in setting these limits unlike in Ireland where 80/100 km limits set by route classification with little consideration of the appropriateness to the actual road in question seem to be the order of the day.

As for the cars people were mainly driving secondhand German imports although a suprising number of pre-1989 Fiat design ripoffs were still knocking about. I believe the drink driving laws are pretty strict but enforcment can be patchy aside from that.

Anyway I fear we are drifting ever so slightly O/T here...................

CiniO

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Most of the speed limits I encountered were either 70km/h or 40km/h most of the drivers seemed to be exceeding this by 20-25 Km/h although doing so while illegal did not seem (in good weather) to be particularly dangerous as the speed limits seemed to be a tad over-conservative.

I think you might have understood it wrong, as in opposition to Irish rules - where every speed limit is shown on traffic sign, in Poland only special speed limits are shown on traffic signs. (the ones you mentioned 70km/h or 40km/h, etc). That limit applies only to nearest junction or "end of limit" sign - whichever comes first, and then limit comes back to regular 90km/h which is standard for that kind of road. However there is no sign indicating 90. It's up to every driver to know general speed limit on that kind of road.

On the other hand the did seem to be making more of an effort to reflect the actual quality of the roads in setting these limits unlike in Ireland where 80/100 km limits set by route classification with little consideration of the appropriateness to the actual road in question seem to be the order of the day.

That's true, and I must admit I was completely shocked when I first came to Ireland and saw something like that:





When I showed this picture on some Polish motor discussion forum, guys couldn't believe it, and said it must be fake. They thought it was originally 30km/h and maybe someone spray-painted it to make it 80.

As for the cars people were mainly driving secondhand German imports although a suprising number of pre-1989 Fiat design ripoffs were still knocking about.

When have you been there?
Over my last few visits, I see less and less of them ;(

I believe the drink driving laws are pretty strict but enforcment can be patchy aside from that.

Over about 200,000 km which I've driven in Poland, I was brethylised at least 50 times.
In Ireland over about 250,000km I've driven, I was brethylised once.
So I'd say rather in Ireland enforcement is poor, unfortunately.