Drink driving causing death. No jail time.

Pique

I just saw this on the paper this morning. Sorry if these discussions aren't allowed, in which case please close with my apologies, but this has to be a joke, right ?

A drunk man who drove 7km in the wrong direction down a dual carriageway and killed a man returning from his fiancee's birthday party avoided jail after a judge said he thought alcohol wasn't the cause of the accident.

Civil engineer Ronan Cunningham (29), of Enniskeen, Kingscourt, Co Cavan, pleaded guilty at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court to dangerous driving causing the death of Emanuel Mendez (23) on October 10, 2010, at Rathcoole, on the N7 Naas dual carriageway.

Cunningham also pleaded guilty to driving while under the influence of alcohol on the same date.

Judge Martin Nolan sentenced Cunningham to five years in prison, which he suspended in full on condition that he is of good behaviour for that period. He also disqualified him from driving for five years.

Prosecution counsel Melanie Greally told Judge Nolan that Cunningham had been attending a darts tournament at the Citywest Hotel on the night of the accident.

Cunningham, who had consumed "about eight pints", had booked a room in the hotel but "could offer no reason" why he decided to drive back to Cavan at 1am.

He ended up driving south on the N7 until he came off at the Kill slip road before driving back down onto the dual carriageway in the wrong direction.

The court heard Mr Mendez and his fiancee Latoya Scott were returning from a dinner celebrating Ms Scott's birthday and were travelling in the outer lane in the direction of Naas when, according to Ms Scott, all she could remember was seeing a flash of light and feeling the impact, which sent their car spinning out of control.

Ms Scott managed to free herself but her fiance, who was revived momentarily at the scene, was trapped and had to be cut from the wreckage.

He was taken to hospital where he later died.

Ms Scott said in her victim-impact statement that her fiance's death had left her completely devastated. She said: "My whole life has changed. I feel I don't have a life. My life is totally empty and I don't feel I will ever celebrate a birthday again.

"Emmanuel was happy, calm, generous and would always say hello to everyone. I am left with so many questions."

The court heard that after he was discharged from hospital with minor injuries, Cunningham presented himself at a garda station.

He told gardai he could not remember getting into the car, driving the car onto the slip road or later against the flow of traffic.

After the accident, he was found to have had 150mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood.

Defence counsel Paul Greene said his client was extremely remorseful for what happened and before that night was a man of excellent character with no previous convictions.

Judge Nolan said he wasn't sure what had happened to Cunningham on the night of the offenses but said he didn't think drink caused him to do what he did.

He said his behaviour was totally out of character for Cunningham who he said, up until that night, was "a perfectly sensible man".

"I'm not sure Mr Cunningham knew what he was doing. I'm not sure the drink was the cause," the judge said.

"I'm not sure that I don't accept his explanation. It's very difficult to justly sentence this case.

"He's not dishonest, he's not stupid and he's a man who doesn't lack sense. I think something happened to Mr Cunningham that night that's not explainable by the drink he took".

Judge Nolan said Cunningham was certainly "drunk while driving the car" and that is "obviously a possibility" that the amount of drink put him into an "insensible state".

He said he had to take into account Cunningham's guilty plea, his co-operation with gardai, his lack of previous convictions and his own doubt surrounding whether the guilty man knew what he was doing.

An amount of €25,000 was handed into the court as a token of Cunningham's remorse.

TL;DR
Guy drinks 8 pints, drives down d/c wrong way, kills innocent driver in crash and escapes jail cos Judge is unsure if alcohol was the cause of him driving.

WTF ? Is the fact that he was drove drunk and killed someone in a crash not enough anymore ? What difference does it make WHY he drove ? Surely the fact that he was way over the limit and killed some poor unfortunate is enough reason to send him to jail, regardless as to how nice a guy he is or how sorry he is or how much money he paid to his victims family or how man prayers he said etc.etc.etc.

Gophur

A thundering disgrace.

Taking another person's life should result in jail time, and a lifetime ban from driving.

Simtech

Gophur wrote: »

A thundering disgrace.

Taking another person's life should result in jail time, and a lifetime ban from driving.

+1

KamiKazi

And to think there was a driver in Naas that got jail time for doing 200km/h on a motorway.

Absolutely appalling verdict.

Cookie_Monster

Even if he was stone cold sober, surely driving the wrong way down a dual carriage is dangerous and reckless driving and that alone should involve some form of prison term for causing the death?!?

Derfil

This country is so wrong on so many levels. I wonder what was in it for the judge to pass such a ridiculous verdict?

AwayWithFaries

Ah now. That's a load of crap really, I don't know how a judge could not jail someone for that.

Tea 1000

Sounds like there was some evidence to support a spiked drink. Hard to judge based on a reporters summary.

Pique

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Sounds like there was some evidence to support a spiked drink.

1 pint spiked with 7 others ?

I see no inference of spiking, more like straw-grasping by the judge for a reason NOT to send him away.

pcardin

Derfil wrote: »

This country is so wrong on so many levels. I wonder what was in it for the judge to pass such a ridiculous verdict?

piss in the head maybe?

It is hard to beleive that any person can become a judge without being fully competant at what they do in every respect. This verdict lacks any kind of justice as I understand it and it is clear that this undermines all that has been acheived in terms of educating a reluctant population to the dangers, or at least the consequences, of drunk driving.
Appalling and disheartening.

Vertakill

This is absolutely sickening.

While the drunk driver may have been an outstanding citizen prior to this, cooperated and was very remoreseful, it doesn't just wash away the fact that he's killed a young man by being completely reckless. That's ultimately what the judge has boiled this down to I think..

He's taken the life of a young man and absolutely destroyed the life of a young woman and most likely their families.... and he's allowed walk free with just a driving ban?!

There are people who breach the magical 100mph mark and get driving bans who don't harm anyone on the road... while I don't condone driving at 100mph on public roads, I hardly think the punishments are comparable!

It's also scary how this can even happen because I use that road pretty much every day as well ..

Anan1

I'd like to have witnessed the court case, rather than relying on an article in the Indo, before getting all wound up.

Davidth88

Thats a disgrace .

He was lucky he didn't get Judge Zaiden , then he would have been put away for sure. ( that was the Judge that jailed the speeding guy because he was fed up with what he had seen while serving as a Judge in Donegal )

Judge Martin Nolan seems a gnome of the highest order, disgrace. Civil engineer Ronan Cunningham (29) might well have relations in blue uniforms.

Tea 1000

Pique wrote: »

1 pint spiked with 7 others ?

I see no inference of spiking, more like straw-grasping by the judge for a reason NOT to send him away.

If you read the Judge's words, it sounds like he suspects something other than alcohol. Now there isn't a lot of categories of substances out there that can cause someone to behave like that outside of alcohol that doesn't involve drugs. It sounds like he had reason to suspect another influence. The fact that the guy had booked the room in the hotel and had intended to stay and doesn't remember getting into his car? I'd remember getting into a car after 8 pints.
It sounds like an appaling ruling, but I'm not going to cast judgement based on an article. Nobody here was in the courtroom, and nobody here was presented with the case, so I wouldn't be overly harsh until I heard more.

...... in fairness when someone in court claims to have consumed about 8 pints it could well be 15+, about is a fairly loose term. If the judge reckoned there were other factors than the 5 year sentence shouldn't have been his decision. Suspending it is a different matter to the actual sentence really.

......... regarding the drink being spiked, hardly plausible considering he had to walk to the car, find it in the CityWest carpark...........also it's for the defence to make that case not for the judge to go thinking it up. Also the chap threw €25,000 into the court, drink spiked I think not.

Tea 1000

RoverJames wrote: »

...... in fairness when someone in court claims to have consumed about 8 pints it could well be 15+, about is a fairly loose term. If the judge reckoned there were other factors than the 5 year sentence shouldn't have been his decision. Suspending it is a different matter to the actual sentence really.

Did he claim that or did they get that information from the pub?
Either way, it's an unfortunate case. Any decent person would be devestated after doing something like that, whether they were sitting in jail regretting it or sitting at home regretting it.

woodseb

Tea 1000 wrote: »

If you read the Judge's words, it sounds like he suspects something other than alcohol. Now there isn't a lot of categories of substances out there that can cause someone to behave like that outside of alcohol that doesn't involve drugs. It sounds like he had reason to suspect another influence. The fact that the guy had booked the room in the hotel and had intended to stay and doesn't remember getting into his car? I'd remember getting into a car after 8 pints.
It sounds like an appaling ruling, but I'm not going to cast judgement based on an article. Nobody here was in the courtroom, and nobody here was presented with the case, so I wouldn't be overly harsh until I heard more.

a judge should rule on the facts of the case, not his suspicions

he can't decide that he thinks there are mitigating factors unless evidence is presented of them

Tea 1000

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Did he claim that or did they get that information from the pub? ............

....... Cunningham, who had consumed "about eight pints", had booked a room in the hotel but "could offer no reason" why he decided to drive back to Cavan at 1am..........

the quotes suggest that was his own estimation

Tea 1000

woodseb wrote: »

a judge should rule on the facts of the case, not his suspicions

he can't decide that he thinks there are mitigating factors unless evidence is presented of them

Are you a Judge?

CreepingDeath

An amount of €25,000 was handed into the court as a token of Cunningham's remorse.

I wonder was another amount handed to the judge in a brown envelope.

CreepingDeath

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I wonder was another amount handed to the judge in a brown envelope.

I'd be certain that wasn't the case tbh

Gophur

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Even if he was stone cold sober, surely driving the wrong way down a dual carriage is dangerous and reckless driving .....................

It's a 2 penalty point offence.

(No NCT is a 5 penalty point offence, even if your car is 100% road-worthy)

Boom_Bap

I wonder if he found a gun and shot someone on the same night would the scentence be the same.

Fey!

This sounds like a bananas judgement (I base that opinion on the information in the article).

I wonder will the RSA come out and comment about it, as it appears to make a mockery of their campaigns.

real stig

There was a case a few years ago of a drink driver only getting a suspended sentence and driving ban in limerick. The guy crashed his jeep into the back of a car, killing a 16 year old that was in the back of the car..and yet you have the threat of jail if you refuse to/cant pay a fine

EPM

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Sounds like there was some evidence to support a spiked drink. Hard to judge based on a reporters summary.

RoverJames wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan seems a gnome of the highest order, disgrace. Civil engineer Ronan Cunningham (29) might well have relations in blue uniforms.

RoverJames wrote: »

...... in fairness when someone in court claims to have consumed about 8 pints it could well be 15+, about is a fairly loose term. If the judge reckoned there were other factors than the 5 year sentence shouldn't have been his decision. Suspending it is a different matter to the actual sentence really.

......... regarding the drink being spiked, hardly plausible considering he had to walk to the car, find it in the CityWest carpark...........also it's for the defence to make that case not for the judge to go thinking it up. Also the chap threw €25,000 into the court, drink spiked I think not.

Tea 1000 wrote: »

If you read the Judge's words, it sounds like he suspects something other than alcohol. Now there isn't a lot of categories of substances out there that can cause someone to behave like that outside of alcohol that doesn't involve drugs. It sounds like he had reason to suspect another influence. The fact that the guy had booked the room in the hotel and had intended to stay and doesn't remember getting into his car? I'd remember getting into a car after 8 pints.
It sounds like an appaling ruling, but I'm not going to cast judgement based on an article. Nobody here was in the courtroom, and nobody here was presented with the case, so I wouldn't be overly harsh until I heard more.

Can we leave hearsay and inferrals out of this and stick with the facts outlined. If there is a more descriptive source that someone would like to add feel free. It would be of great benefit to the discussion.

Voodoomelon

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd like to have witnessed the court case, rather than relying on an article in the Indo, before getting all wound up.

This.
There's something ambiguous about this report that doesn't sit right. Whether its badly written or are facts omitted, I don't know.

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

There's something ambiguous about this report that doesn't sit right. Whether its badly written or are facts omitted, I don't know.

My thoughts exactly as soon as I read the article. I'm not going to comment at this stage.

ION08

And he wasn't eastern european!?!

Buffman

Voodoomelon wrote: »

This.
There's something ambiguous about this report that doesn't sit right. Whether its badly written or are facts omitted, I don't know.

Here's the Irish Times article on it.

The facts are the facts though, he pleaded guilty to dangerous driving causing death, and should have been sent to prison IMO.

Judge Nolan said he wasn’t sure what had happened to Cunningham on that night, but said he didn’t think drink caused him to do what he did.

Who cares why he did it, a man is still dead.


Pic of scene.




I wish I could say I'm surprised, but this seems to be the norm these days, remember the drunk driver who killed a Garda and a firefighter and was let off - twice

whalemeat27

Ah yes another one gets away with taking someones life. This would really make you think twice about drink driving! haha yeah right what a joke!


I would love to run down that judges wife, what sentence do you think i would get...

Im so angry.

challengemaster

Buffman wrote: »

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but this seems to be the norm these days, remember the drunk driver who killed a Garda and a firefighter and was let off - twice

In response to that, there is actually something said about that accident in a documentary on boyracers (only know this as it was posted in modified motors forum)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvoFaRPP7R0

from 5:40 on

If there wasn't adequate signage / garda presence / whatever to signify there had been a crash around a bend ahead, it wouldn't matter if you were drunk or not. So the accident wasn't caused by him being drunk while driving.

He was still charged with the offense of drink driving.

Tea 1000

EPM wrote: »

Can we leave hearsay and inferrals out of this and stick with the facts outlined. If there is a more descriptive source that someone would like to add feel free. It would be of great benefit to the discussion.

The facts outlined are what we are commenting on. It's a reporters summary, with a quote from the judge as to him not suspecting drink being the main cause. If that's not noteworthy, then we shouldn't be commenting at all on the matter and this thread should be closed, seeing as we don't have the full details.

mickdw

Buffman wrote: »

remember the drunk driver who killed a Garda and a firefighter and was let off - twice

Yes but in that particular case there were serious mistakes made in how the emergency services at the scene of the earlier crash handled the situation and basically failed to make the area safe for themselves to do their job. IIRC, they were basically working away at crash scene which was just arround a blind bend and nobody saw fit to set up proper warnings for oncoming traffic.

Buffman

challengemaster wrote: »

So the accident wasn't caused by him being drunk while driving.

He was still charged with the offense of drink driving.

Ye, I don't want to go too far off topic, but if you're saying that him being drunk had no bearing on the accident, I'd have to disagree. I haven't driven that road in a while but had a look at the scene on street view and IMO if he was sober with a normal reaction time, chances are it wouldn't have happened.

challengemaster wrote: »

If there wasn't adequate signage / garda presence / whatever to signify there had been a crash around a bend ahead, it wouldn't matter if you were drunk or not.

mickdw wrote: »

Yes but in that particular case there were serious mistakes made in how the emergency services at the scene of the earlier crash handled the situation and basically failed to make the area safe for themselves to do their job. IIRC, they were basically working away at crash scene which was just arround a blind bend and nobody saw fit to set up proper warnings for oncoming traffic.

Ye, that was the defences argument, and it worked. However, the fire service had placed their vehicle to protect the scene and did have personnel directing traffic. The drunk driver hit the fire engine, almost hit the fireman directing traffic, and then hit the original crashed car and recovery truck. Yes, in hindsight they could have done things better, and have hopefully learnt from it, but it doesn't absolve the drunk driver of all responsibility. Narrative here.

theTinker

This thread is one of those that just makes me hate and disgust myself with people.

he KILLED a man, was drunk while driving, and drove 7km down the wrong way of a road... He gets NOTHING. For ANY of those reasons he should have been punished.

Fishtits

The Laws an Ass.

Delancey

The DPP is free to appeal the leniency of the sentence , something I sincerely hope happens.

corktina

RoverJames wrote: »

I'd be certain that wasn't the case tbh

id be certain that is Contempt of Court!