how many business people are leaving to set up in UK, with less vat + costs?

gigino

I met one small to medium businessman recently who has moved his business to the UK. Most of it is online and the extra 3% vat here ( 23% as opposed to 20% ) and the extra postage costs around the world from Ireland would make it unworthwhile to base his business in Ireland. Royal mail worldwide is a lot cheaper than An post. Labour costs are a lot cheaper in the UK. He says he is in a competitive industry, and nowadays his competitors are Europe wide, a click away, and the extra costs here make business here uneconomical. He says legal fees and accountancy fees are much cheaper in UK too. He has no regrets about moving and says the UK is a lot more pro-business. So much for our government wanting to protect jobs here ! It reminds me of the 80's, when many bright people left.
Does anyone know if any bookies are taking bets on the 23% vat rate taking in less tax or more tax over the next year ? I'd love to place a bet, I would say it will be less due to reduced business in Ireland, more on-line shopping from overseas and shoppers going north, esp those who live close to the border. Thats what happened last time they raised vat too;)....the total amount collected went down.

Logical Fallacy

Did you not do this thread already?

Or someone did pretty much the exact same thread. Someone they know, small businessman, blah blah blah.

For Forks Sake

gigino wrote: »

Does anyone know if any bookies are taking bets on the 23% vat rate taking in less tax or more tax over the next year ? I'd love to place a bet, I would say it will be less due to reduced business in Ireland, more on-line shopping from overseas and shoppers going north, esp those who live close to the border. Thats what happened last time they raised vat too;)....the total amount collected went down.

Last time the VAT rates were adjusted, there was a far bigger gap in the exchange rate and fuel was cheaper so there was more incentive to travel north. Not so now, unless you're in a border county, the cost of fuel alone would negate the savings on the goods you were going to purchase up north.

For Forks Sake

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Did you not do this thread already?

Or someone did pretty much the exact same thread. Someone they know, small businessman, blah blah blah.

Small to Medium businessman according to the OP. So, about 5'6, 33" waist....

saywhatyousee

gigino wrote: »

I met one small to medium businessman recently who has moved his business to the UK. Most of it is online and the extra 3% vat here ( 23% as opposed to 20% ) and the extra postage costs around the world from Ireland would make it unworthwhile to base his business in Ireland. Royal mail worldwide is a lot cheaper than An post. Labour costs are a lot cheaper in the UK. He says he is in a competitive industry, and nowadays his competitors are Europe wide, a click away, and the extra costs here make business here uneconomical. He says legal fees and accountancy fees are much cheaper in UK too. He has no regrets about moving and says the UK is a lot more pro-business. So much for our government wanting to protect jobs here ! It reminds me of the 80's, when many bright people left.
Does anyone know if any bookies are taking bets on the 23% vat rate taking in less tax or more tax over the next year ? I'd love to place a bet, I would say it will be less due to reduced business in Ireland, more on-line shopping from overseas and shoppers going north, esp those who live close to the border. Thats what happened last time they raised vat too;)....the total amount collected went down.

Inflation is running at 5% in the U.K there are feck all bargains to be had up North nowadays and i am over back the border quite regular.Do not really know about business cost's so cant comment.Unless you live within a hour's drive of where ever your destination is up north its not worth it at all.

gigino

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Did you not do this thread already?

no. but there are so many empty commercial premises in parts of the country I am sure the people who used to work there went somewhere.

For Forks Sake

gigino wrote: »

no. but there are so many empty commercial premises in parts of the country I am sure the people who used to work there went somewhere.

OR maybe they were build by idiot developers who hadn't given any forethought as to who was going to occupy/buy/rent them and have lain idle since?????

Logical Fallacy

gigino wrote: »

no. but there are so many empty commercial premises in parts of the country I am sure the people who used to work there went somewhere.

Interesting logic.

oppenheimer1

gigino wrote: »

I met one small to medium businessman recently who has moved his business to the UK. Most of it is online and the extra 3% vat here ( 23% as opposed to 20% ) and the extra postage costs around the world from Ireland would make it unworthwhile to base his business in Ireland. Royal mail worldwide is a lot cheaper than An post. Labour costs are a lot cheaper in the UK. He says he is in a competitive industry, and nowadays his competitors are Europe wide, a click away, and the extra costs here make business here uneconomical. He says legal fees and accountancy fees are much cheaper in UK too. He has no regrets about moving and says the UK is a lot more pro-business. So much for our government wanting to protect jobs here ! It reminds me of the 80's, when many bright people left.
Does anyone know if any bookies are taking bets on the 23% vat rate taking in less tax or more tax over the next year ? I'd love to place a bet, I would say it will be less due to reduced business in Ireland, more on-line shopping from overseas and shoppers going north, esp those who live close to the border. Thats what happened last time they raised vat too;)....the total amount collected went down.

Royal mail is shit though.

Will shoppers really go north when fuel is also going to get more expensive? Its hype and a perception not based in reality. The overall cost of going north is more expensive.

gigino

For Forks Sake wrote: »

OR maybe they were build by idiot developers who hadn't given any forethought as to who was going to occupy/buy/rent them and have lain idle since?????

I am referring more to the people who used to work in businesses, some of which have closed down. Others have let people go. Either way, emmigration is a fact nowadays.

gigino

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Royal mail is shit though.

not that ****. I was looking at a shops feedback on ebay which sends out lots of parcels / packets by UK post office. Its a lot cheaper than an post. I suppose the UK has economies of scale, cheaper wages, less business rates etc

drdeadlift

For Forks Sake wrote: »

OR maybe they were build by idiot developers who hadn't given any forethought as to who was going to occupy/buy/rent them and have lain idle since?????

go for a walk about dub1/2 area,there are plenty of empty businesses.The cost of setting up even a small business is crippling along with that the banks aren't willing to help.

oppenheimer1

gigino wrote: »

not that ****. I was looking at a shops feedback on ebay which sends out lots of parcels / packets by UK post office. Its a lot cheaper than an post. I suppose the UK has economies of scale, cheaper wages, less business rates etc

Royal mail is awful - it regularly loses packages and letters. I've had to have a letter re-sent three times from London in the past two months.

Logical Fallacy

drdeadlift wrote: »

go for a walk about dub1/2 area,there are plenty of empty businesses.The cost of setting up even a small business is crippling along with that the banks aren't willing to help.

That's not really the issue though, the issue the OP is asking about is how many established businesses are leaving Ireland to operate in another market.

drdeadlift

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Royal mail is awful - it regularly loses packages and letters. I've had to have a letter re-sent three times from London in the past two months.

It could be your handwriting ?

drdeadlift

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

That's not really the issue though, the issue the OP is asking about is how many established businesses are leaving Ireland to operate in another market.

True,but the issues of the problem are much the same.Business closes and ppl and/or business goes elsewhere.

Chuck Stone

gigino wrote: »

I met one small to medium businessman recently who has moved his business to the UK.

Short businessmen fleeing the Island. Did it involve rainbows and pots of gold?

oppenheimer1

drdeadlift wrote: »

It could be your handwriting ?

Typed letter from my university - unlikely.

I wouldn't trust Royal mail with anything of even minor importance.

gigino

drdeadlift wrote: »

It could be your handwriting ?

or an post ?

The UK loses very liitle as they have an efficient postal code system there. Ask any UK business which posts a lot. Courriers etc are cheaper over there too, I suppose vans are cheaper, populations are denser + less scattered ( no pun intended), and labour costs less. Accountancy fees are half as well.

For Forks Sake

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Short businessmen fleeing the Island. Did it involve rainbows and pots of gold?

To be sure, to be sure

drdeadlift

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Typed letter from my university - unlikely.

I wouldn't trust Royal mail with anything of even minor importance.

spelling issue?

K-9

Sounds a fantastic idea gigino, I'd have thought you'd be planning it already, if not already over there.

gigino

me? No, I'm more patriotic, I prefer to stay and support the lavish pay and pensions of our numerous existing and retired politicians and their hangers on.;)
Ask not what your country can do for you, but.....

K-9

gigino wrote: »

me? No, I'm more patriotic, I prefer to stay and support the lavish pay and pensions of our numerous existing and retired politicians and their hangers on.;)
Ask not what your country can do for you, but.....

And eulogise about the deserters.

JG009

Fair play to him. Hope he does well for himself.

Jesus Wept

17

The Scientician

If you have an established business here and you're making decent money, you'd be some fool to upsticks and move to the UK just to lower a few costs. The cost of establishing yourself again, negotiating a business environment you might be unfamiliar with, and taking on 10 times as many competitors (or more depending on the industry) would more than mitigate the other savings. I can imagine some entrepreneurs deciding to start up in the UK would be better than here, but that's almost always the case anyway, if the size of your market is your primary concern. You'd still have the other problems and would need to assess them.

gigino

The Scientician wrote: »

If you have an established business here and you're making decent money...

thats a huge "IF"

Business here who are competing with on-line sellers in the UK ( inc N. Ireland ) are playing on a very uphill playing field. Postal rates and courier rates are double in Ireland. Vat rates are higher here, and going higher still. Some online sellers are making 5 or 10% on some large items - if this gross profit margin is halved because of vat rate it means their gross profit is halved. Then to employ warehouse staff is a lot cheaper in the UK - £ 6 an hour. Legal and accountancy fees are half. The cost of vehicles / vans is much less. Rates are less. Plus this country is in receivership / the IMF are here, and its almost certain the long term prospects of staying in the euro are not good. Its a no brainer, as one person I know who set up a successful business over there says. You go to where life is easiest / where you can make the most money. The reason-as someone told me - more and more people are not emigrating is because they own property here in negative equity, or are tied in to leases etc. If you are young and ambitous - go.

The Scientician

Corporate tax is higher, but anyway nothing you've said contradicts my point. Online businesses can indeed move more readily to cheaper jurisdictions. Your friend might well find somewhere else in Europe or beyond that's cheaper again. A lot of businesses aren't online however, or rely on a physical presence in a place. I just can't see many of these ones that are established upping sticks and moving wholesale across the water.

I agree with your broader point though, that the environment for setting up and maintaining businesses could be better here.

oppenheimer1

gigino wrote: »

I met one small to medium businessman recently who has moved his business to the UK. Most of it is online and the extra 3% vat here ( 23% as opposed to 20% ) and the extra postage costs around the world from Ireland would make it unworthwhile to base his business in Ireland. Royal mail worldwide is a lot cheaper than An post. Labour costs are a lot cheaper in the UK. He says he is in a competitive industry, and nowadays his competitors are Europe wide, a click away, and the extra costs here make business here uneconomical. He says legal fees and accountancy fees are much cheaper in UK too. He has no regrets about moving and says the UK is a lot more pro-business. So much for our government wanting to protect jobs here ! It reminds me of the 80's, when many bright people left.
Does anyone know if any bookies are taking bets on the 23% vat rate taking in less tax or more tax over the next year ? I'd love to place a bet, I would say it will be less due to reduced business in Ireland, more on-line shopping from overseas and shoppers going north, esp those who live close to the border. Thats what happened last time they raised vat too;)....the total amount collected went down.

Corporation tax is also higher in the UK