Israeli govt. turn on their own

steelcityblues

A report from the Christian Science Monitor below mentions that the Israeli government commissioned a controversial series of ads, about American jews supposedly losing touch with their roots.

The ad in the you tube link shows a disgusted set of grandparents talking to their US born granddaughter at Christmas time. When they ask what day it is today: the girl says 'Christmas', instead of Hanukkah. Apparently marrying American Jews is now seen as a 'dangerous' development for any right thinking Israeli.

Not surprisingly one of Netanyahu's cronies thought up this campaign.

I can only imagine the usual criticism here of Iran of being backwards troglodytes, if they lashed into an Muslim girl in New York or Chicago enjoying Christmas or Thanksgiving.

So, how does the 'only democracy in the Middle East' get away with considering some Jews more Jewish than others? Maybe more should move permanently to the US and elsewhere, if this is the case.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/1202/Are-American-Jews-unfit-to-marry-Israelis?cmpid=ema:nws:Weekend%20Newsletter%20(12-3-11)&cmpid=ema:nws:NzQ4MDUxMjU4MQS2

wes

It really is a rather sad and nasty little ad. The Israeli government have completely lost the plot imho.

anymore

steelcityblues wrote: »

A report from the Christian Science Monitor below mentions that the Israeli government commissioned a controversial series of ads, about American jews supposedly losing touch with their roots.

The ad in the you tube link shows a disgusted set of grandparents talking to their US born granddaughter at Christmas time. When they ask what day it is today: the girl says 'Christmas', instead of Hanukkah. Apparently marrying American Jews is now seen as a 'dangerous' development for any right thinking Israeli.

Not surprisingly one of Netanyahu's cronies thought up this campaign.

I can only imagine the usual criticism here of Iran of being backwards troglodytes, if they lashed into an Muslim girl in New York or Chicago enjoying Christmas or Thanksgiving.

So, how does the 'only democracy in the Middle East' get away with considering some Jews more Jewish than others? Maybe more should move permanently to the US and elsewhere, if this is the case.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/1202/Are-American-Jews-unfit-to-marry-Israelis?cmpid=ema:nws:Weekend%20Newsletter%20(12-3-11)&cmpid=ema:nws:NzQ4MDUxMjU4MQS2

Well people who believe in religion can be kinda funny you know. For example, the BBC reported this week that there were over 3,000 ' honor attacks on young women in the UK this year - women of one particular religion attacked by mainly family members for being immodest !
And aparently there are religions which deem apostasy to be worthy of the death penalty.
So as I say, believing in a religion can, if taken too far, lead to some pretty strange conclusions. You mentioned the US, remember the salem trials and executions in the 18th century ?

steelcityblues

anymore wrote: »

Well people who believe in religion can be kinda funny you know. For example, the BBC reported this week that there were over 3,000 ' honor attacks on young women in the UK this year - women of one particular religion attacked by mainly family members for being immodest !
And aparently there are religions which deem apostasy to be worthy of the death penalty.
So as I say, believing in a religion can, if taken too far, lead to some pretty strange conclusions. You mentioned the US, remember the salem trials and executions in the 18th century ?

Well of course there is an extremist element in Islam too, no denying that - but are you going to use whataboutery in this thread, or give your actual thoughts on the Israeli govt?

The Salem witch trials were centuries ago, before the America of today.

BlaasForRafa

steelcityblues wrote: »

Well of course there is an extremist element in Islam too, no denying that - but are you going to use whataboutery in this thread, or give your actual thoughts on the Israeli govt?

The Salem witch trials were centuries ago, before the America of today.

Lol, saying theres an extremist element in Islam is like saying theres sand on the beach.

This is yet another "oh look at those nasty Israelis" non-thread.

steelcityblues

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Lol, saying theres an extremist element in Islam is like saying theres sand on the beach.

This is yet another "oh look at those nasty Israelis" non-thread.

An ad campaign attacking Muslims you could call 'just another day'.

An ad campaign making ex-pats feel bad for abandoning their heritage, is definitely a new development, and worthy of discussion.

brimal

This is a pathetic thread. Seriously.
This is a non-issue. The ad was pulled.

If you want to start a worthwhile thread about how a 'government has lost the plot', I suggest a thread on Youcef Nadarkhani

Manach

anymore wrote: »

So as I say, believing in a religion can, if taken too far, lead to some pretty strange conclusions. You mentioned the US, remember the salem trials and executions in the 18th century ?

To roll back on the A&A slant, these were in the 17th C., and it had to be taken both in the context of the era and that reaction against these trials were prompted in part by religious motives - as per "Judge Sewall's Apology" by Richard Francis.

steelcityblues

brimal wrote: »

This is a pathetic thread. Seriously.
This is a non-issue. The ad was pulled.

If you want to start a worthwhile thread about how a 'government has lost the plot', I suggest a thread on Youcef Nadarkhani

You can't change the intent - pulled ad or not. World observers can now see the intent behind this campaign, and it is controversial to say the least.

Again, why bother posting in the first place, if you want to do deflection tactics.

Siuin

Typical tactics to bring up something about Arabs or Muslims (ie the 'arch nemesis of Israel) in order to avoid actually addressing Israel's problems :rolleyes:

RichieC

US Jews vote mainly for democrats and are more liberal than non Jewish statistically. even so they are generally apologists for the Israeli regime (junta imo). even this isn't enough for the hard liners currently running the show.

BTW the fact that this was pulled is not clemency for doing it in the first place. they seen the outrage on the internet and thought better of it. too late.

RichieC

Siuin wrote: »

Typical tactics to bring up something about Arabs or Muslims (ie the 'arch nemesis of Israel) in order to avoid actually addressing Israel's problems :rolleyes:

it's either that or call us all anti Semites.

Siuin

RichieC wrote: »

US Jews vote mainly for democrats and are more liberal than non Jewish statistically. even so they are generally apologists for the Israeli regime (junta imo). even this isn't enough for the hard liners currently running the show.

Indeed- I posted this story on facebook and it made things very awkward for my pro-Zionist friends in the U.S. -- especially those in relationships with Israelis...

Extremely stupid move by Israel- they're basically isolating one of the very last groups that actually endorse their actions

Eliot Rosewater

Well it really is a matter of degree. Most, like me, would agree that the ad is xenophobic and thus distasteful. However, in the context of a region where female members of the other major religion can be beaten and raped for things their family did, running a few commercials on US cable TV doesn't seem that harmful.

RichieC

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Well it really is a matter of degree. Most, like me, would agree that the ad is xenophobic and thus distasteful. However, in the context of a region where female members of the other major religion can be beaten and raped for things their family did, running a few commercials on US cable TV doesn't seem that harmful.

whataboutery. Everything Israel does is just fine, so :rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater

RichieC wrote: »

whataboutery. Everything Israel does is just fine, so :rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Most, like me, would agree that the ad is xenophobic and thus distasteful.

...

RichieC

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

...

so why mention other states in the region? they are not relevant to the discussion.

RichieC

Riddle me this, Mr/s Rosewater. when a story pops up here about Iran, is your first reflex to point out that the KSA, a US ally, carried out things far worse than Iran?

Eliot Rosewater

RichieC wrote: »

so why mention other states in the region? they are not relevant to the discussion.

I'll first assume that that counts as you withdrawing your comment that I think "Everything Israel does is just fine, so".

Other states in the region are relevant because perspective is relevant. For example, when the heads of states of certain African countries step down when they're supposed to it can be a cause of celebration. In Ireland's case, we didn't even notice that McAleese didn't threaten to call in the army to protect her position. The point is that Ireland and Somalia are judged by different yardsticks. When we judge a country we typically do it by comparing it to others close by, or by comparing it to countries which have similar political atmospheres. This is why an African head of state stepping down peacefully can be a good thing, as supposed to a non-thing, as in Ireland's case. Were judging Libya relative to Africa and Ireland relative to Western Europe.

My comments were designed to add perspective by comparing it to countries in the region and countries that have regular experiences of armed conflict.

RichieC wrote: »

Riddle me this, Mr/s Rosewater. when a story pops up here about Iran, is your first reflex to point out that the KSA, a US ally, carried out things far worse than Iran?

No, because I don't play an us versus them game on threads about the Middle-East. I criticise all countries when they deserve it. I don't take sides, unlike the pro-Arab lobby and the pro-Israel lobby.

BlaasForRafa

RichieC wrote: »

so why mention other states in the region? they are not relevant to the discussion.

I don't see that theres a big problem in pointing out the hypocrisy of people that when a minor story about Israel comes up they can't wait to pile in and have a go but muslim countries get a free ride for much worse things.

brimal

The sheer hypocrisy in this forum is baffling.

It must be a slow news week for the anti-Israel brigade to have to start a thread on this.

There is alot more xenophobic, barbaric, down-right wrong things going on in the Middle East this week, but nobody cares because it doesn't involve maligning the Israel or the West.

Youcef Nadarkhani this week will learn his fate on weather or not he will be hanged for preaching Christianity. It's not looking good for him. The whole case is a complete shambles and and shows the complete lack of human rights shown to the people of Iran. Not one mention on this forum.

President Assad of Syria has said today that he doesn't feel any remorse or guilt for the killing of 4000+ of his own people who just wanted to protest against the government. Again no thread mentioned on this forum.

An Australian tourist has been given 2 year suspended sentence and 500 lashes for 'blasphemy' in Saudi Arabia. He couldn't afford a lawyer and under Saudi law, wasn't given one.

Etc. Etc.

It's rather pathetic seeing the anti-Israel brigade scraping the bottom of the barrell and practically salivating at another chance to condemn Israel.

There is plenty to debate about when it comes to Israel and I am for that, but starting these petty threads make you look rather desperate imo.

steelcityblues

brimal wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy in this forum is baffling.

It must be a slow news week for the anti-Israel brigade to have to start a thread on this.

There is alot more xenophobic, barbaric, down-right wrong things going on in the Middle East this week, but nobody cares because it doesn't involve maligning the Israel or the West.

Youcef Nadarkhani this week will learn his fate on weather or not he will be hanged for preaching Christianity. It's not looking good for him. The whole case is a complete shambles and and shows the complete lack of human rights shown to the people of Iran. Not one mention on this forum.

President Assad of Syria has said today that he doesn't feel any remorse or guilt for the killing of 4000+ of his own people who just wanted to protest against the government. Again no thread mentioned on this forum.

An Australian tourist has been given 2 year suspended sentence and 500 lashes for 'blasphemy' in Saudi Arabia. He couldn't afford a lawyer and under Saudi law, wasn't given one.

Etc. Etc.

It's rather pathetic seeing the anti-Israel brigade scraping the bottom of the barrell and practically salivating at another chance to condemn Israel.

There is plenty to debate about when it comes to Israel and I am for that, but starting these petty threads make you look rather desperate imo.

I don't condone what is happening to the Christian guy on trial at the moment, but those stories are getting quite a bit of world media attention.

However, I only heard about the ad campaign story yesterday, it hasn't been getting a lot of big media coverage.

You can't stop me starting these threads, and vice versa.

southsiderosie

brimal wrote: »

This is a pathetic thread. Seriously.
This is a non-issue. The ad was pulled.

If you want to start a worthwhile thread about how a 'government has lost the plot', I suggest a thread on Youcef Nadarkhani

It's a huge issue for American Jews, who feel very poorly done by the Israeli government. Whether they pulled the ad or not is irrelevant; what matters is that they produced and distributed them in the first place.

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Well it really is a matter of degree. Most, like me, would agree that the ad is xenophobic and thus distasteful. However, in the context of a region where female members of the other major religion can be beaten and raped for things their family did, running a few commercials on US cable TV doesn't seem that harmful.

I think you are looking at the wrong context. This isn't about Israel's relationship with it's neighbors. It is about the Israeli government's relationship with the Jewish diaspora in the U.S.

brimal wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy in this forum is baffling.

It must be a slow news week for the anti-Israel brigade to have to start a thread on this.

There is alot more xenophobic, barbaric, down-right wrong things going on in the Middle East this week, but nobody cares because it doesn't involve maligning the Israel or the West.

Oh, please. What is supposed to be the takeaway from this ad? American Jews are good enough to carry the Israeli government's water in Congress, but not good enough to marry her sons and daughters?

If the Irish government started running ads in Boston encouraging Irish people to come back to Mayo because a guy from Southie would never understand what it was like to be Irish, the local Irish-American population would be outraged - and the political and cultural ties between the American Jewish population and Israel are much, much stronger than between the Irish diaspora and Eire.

Nodin

brimal wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy in this forum is baffling.

.............

You might not have noticed, but nobody has ever portrayed Iran or Saudi as the kind of place where these things don't happen. Quite the opposite with Israel, however.

Jaafa

anymore wrote: »

Well people who believe in religion can be kinda funny you know. For example, the BBC reported this week that there were over 3,000 ' honor attacks on young women in the UK this year - women of one particular religion attacked by mainly family members for being immodest !
And aparently there are religions which deem apostasy to be worthy of the death penalty.
So as I say, believing in a religion can, if taken too far, lead to some pretty strange conclusions. You mentioned the US, remember the salem trials and executions in the 18th century ?

You do realize that honor killings have no basis in Islam? They are entirely a cultural thing, not unlike dueling in Europe a couple of centuries ago. There is no religious element to it. It's to do usually with the loss or perceived loss of 'honor' hence the name.

anymore

Jaafa wrote: »

You do realize that honor killings have no basis in Islam? They are entirely a cultural thing, not unlike dueling in Europe a couple of centuries ago. There is no religious element to it. It's to do usually with the loss or perceived loss of 'honor' hence the name.

You do realize religions have no basis in reality ? I have long ago grown tired of the way apoligists hop between ' culture and religion on this particular topic. It isnt even worth wasting time on.

Arfan

brimal wrote: »

Youcef Nadarkhani this week will learn his fate on weather or not he will be hanged for preaching Christianity. It's not looking good for him. The whole case is a complete shambles and and shows the complete lack of human rights shown to the people of Iran. Not one mention on this forum.

Ahem. If you're referring to Politics specifically then you're right no one seems to have started a thread on it. So why not start one?

anymore

brimal wrote: »

The sheer hypocrisy in this forum is baffling.

It must be a slow news week for the anti-Israel brigade to have to start a thread on this.

There is alot more xenophobic, barbaric, down-right wrong things going on in the Middle East this week, but nobody cares because it doesn't involve maligning the Israel or the West.

Youcef Nadarkhani this week will learn his fate on weather or not he will be hanged for preaching Christianity. It's not looking good for him. The whole case is a complete shambles and and shows the complete lack of human rights shown to the people of Iran. Not one mention on this forum.

President Assad of Syria has said today that he doesn't feel any remorse or guilt for the killing of 4000+ of his own people who just wanted to protest against the government. Again no thread mentioned on this forum.

An Australian tourist has been given 2 year suspended sentence and 500 lashes for 'blasphemy' in Saudi Arabia. He couldn't afford a lawyer and under Saudi law, wasn't given one.

Etc. Etc.

It's rather pathetic seeing the anti-Israel brigade scraping the bottom of the barrell and practically salivating at another chance to condemn Israel.

There is plenty to debate about when it comes to Israel and I am for that, but starting these petty threads make you look rather desperate imo.

brimal you are a relative newcomer to Boards.ie political judging by your post number. This is fact is a relateviely quiet period for Middle eastern affaris for Boards. Normal service would invlove about 3 or 4 anti isralei threads running, so in fact just having one is quite a good day !:)
It was of course rather emnarassing that one of the irish ships carrying ' vital medical supplies' to gaza turned to be be carrying...well, no supplies at all ! So I guess that quietened things a little

wes

Arfan wrote: »

Ahem. If you're referring to Politics specifically then you're right no one seems to have started a thread on it. So why not start one?

I should also not I see no posts from Brimal in that thread. Now, if I were a cynical person, I would think that Brimal doesn't actually care about the preacher at all, and is just using him to deflect valid criticism from Israel.........

Jaafa

anymore wrote: »

You do realize religions have no basis in reality ? I have long ago grown tired of the way apoligists hop between ' culture and religion on this particular topic. It isnt even worth wasting time on.

Then don't mention it again. You made the link between honor killings and Islam. I disproved it. Move on.

anymore

wes wrote: »

I should also not I see no posts from Brimal in that thread. Now, if I were a cynical person, I would think that Brimal doesn't actually care about the preacher at all, and is just using him to deflect valid criticism from Israel.........

Wes, welcome back !
Not everyone has the time or energy to post as much as they might like, so maybe you are being cynical ?
Indeed I am now almost embarrassed at having accumulated so many post - now I try to be far more disciplined and use my time more constructively. Apart from the odd foray into these Anti israel threads, to provide a little balance, I try to avoid them.
Besides most of the world has moved on from the same old tired jaded arguements in this region. As Europe will find out, the balance of pwoer has shifted east and there will be precious liitle time in the East for Palestine.isreal. Now I must go and check ou tthe cost of mandarin lessons. !
After all, why stay rutted in the past !

brimal

wes wrote: »

I should also not I see no posts from Brimal in that thread. Now, if I were a cynical person, I would think that Brimal doesn't actually care about the preacher at all, and is just using him to deflect valid criticism from Israel.........

Getting personal now are you?

The Christianity forum is a forum I would never ever frequent. I never knew there was a thread on this topic there.

I guess your fanatical pro-Muslim stance is understandable, but seriously, get off your high horse every once in a while.

I was simply pointing out how quickly threads come up about anything to do with Israel, yet greater wrongs going on in the Middle East get alot less attention.

wes

brimal wrote: »

Getting personal now are you?

Not personal at all. I think it strange that you only seem to care about this preacher soley in the context of defending Israel, and I see no reason why I shouldn't point this out. Afterall, there is nothing stopping you starting a thread on the topic, which imho if you actually cared you would do so.

brimal wrote: »

The Christianity forum is a forum I would never ever frequent. I never knew there was a thread on this topic there.

Fair enough, but you complained about the lack of the topic, and didn't start one of your own. To me, that simply strikes me as being rather dodgy.

brimal wrote: »

I guess your fanatical pro-Muslim stance is understandable, but seriously, get off your high horse every once in a while.

The only person on a high horse is you (your post here is a perfect example, as you right away call anyone who offered criticism a hypocrite: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75885635&postcount=21, and the funny thing is that you only seem to have posted on some those atrocities only in this thread), and sure I can call you fanatacally pro-Zionist as you basically engaged in whataboutery to defend a pretty nasty little ad from the Israeli government, but that would be silly and pointless. Now pointing that out, that you rather derail the thread, doesn't make me fanatically or anything of the sort.

brimal wrote: »

I was simply pointing out how quickly threads come up about anything to do with Israel, yet greater wrongs going on in the Middle East get a lot less attention.

They also seem to not get any attention from you either. If you cared you would have created a thread already on the topic, as no one is stopping you from doing that. BTW, I see the exact same tactics being used, when Israel does something a lot worse than this btw, so the whole great wrongs argument doesn't really hold much water, as I am certain people who make the same arguement if Israel was doing much worse.

Also, I can do exactly what you do in regards to the Iranian preacher, on the basis that Saudi Arabia treats its Women far worse than Iran, or that North Korea's government is so bad, that the people there are straving. If we all followed your logic, then no one would be criticised for anything ever. Sure Ghaddiffi wasn't nearly as bad, as some other dictators out there either, I could go on and on, and defend everyone except the absolute worst of the worst.

conor.hogan.2

Blame israel for the "anti"-insrael threads. They do a great job of turning pretty much everyone against them.

Eliot Rosewater

southsiderosie wrote: »

I think you are looking at the wrong context. This isn't about Israel's relationship with it's neighbors. It is about the Israeli government's relationship with the Jewish diaspora in the U.S.

True, but people are using this news story to argue that Israel is a bad place, or at least that it has a bad government. In that context, it's suitable to compare it to its neighbours and see what kind of government or policies they have. In that context, running xenophobic ads on US TV isn't quite as bad as ordering a man to be imprisoned and lashed 100 times for blashphemy - in my opinion, at least.

Yet, I don't think we have a thread on the Afgan lashing incident. So even though an event is demonstrably worse, it does not merit discussion. And it does not merit it precisely because it is not Israel behind it.

HivemindXX

Bless the Israelis. Making the world better just a little bit better every time an American Jew sees this ad and thinks "you know what - to hell with religion in general"

steelcityblues

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

True, but people are using this news story to argue that Israel is a bad place, or at least that it has a bad government. In that context, it's suitable to compare it to its neighbours and see what kind of government or policies they have. In that context, running xenophobic ads on US TV isn't quite as bad as ordering a man to be imprisoned and lashed 100 times for blashphemy - in my opinion, at least.

Yet, I don't think we have a thread on the Afgan lashing incident. So even though an event is demonstrably worse, it does not merit discussion. And it does not merit it precisely because it is not Israel behind it.

FFS - nothing is preventing you from starting a thread on that matter, if you wish.

RichieC

steelcityblues wrote: »

FFS - nothing is preventing you from starting a thread on that matter, if you wish.

That's simply not good enough. every thread about Israel must have a list of things that surrounding countries do even worse or it's anti Semitic.

whataboutery the other way around is also anti Semitic.

southsiderosie

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

True, but people are using this news story to argue that Israel is a bad place, or at least that it has a bad government. In that context, it's suitable to compare it to its neighbours and see what kind of government or policies they have. In that context, running xenophobic ads on US TV isn't quite as bad as ordering a man to be imprisoned and lashed 100 times for blashphemy - in my opinion, at least.

Yet, I don't think we have a thread on the Afgan lashing incident. So even though an event is demonstrably worse, it does not merit discussion. And it does not merit it precisely because it is not Israel behind it.

No, it's not. Israel is ostensibly a democracy. Its neighbors are not - hence the revolutions. Should we refrain from criticizing the U.S. because of what is going on in Haiti or Cuba?

Regardless, this story has little to do with democracy anyway. It's more about a government's relationship with a politically influential ethnic diaspora.