Who should make FF XV?

Mario007

Seeing that we're closing onto the release of FF 13-2 and Type-0 is already released the only big FF game left is Versus. That means Square should definitely start preparing the development of FF XV (if they haven't started already). So who do you think should head the team that makes FF XV?

Should it be Toriyama again? Bring Kitase in as a director? Maybe take Nomura off Kingdom Hearts and put him on Final Fantasy? Another option would be to let Tabata take a stab at mainline FF title? Or do you want someone completely different?

Retr0gamer

Anybody but Nomura.

ancapailldorcha

Yasumi Matsuno. These things take ages to develop so I'd be amazed if it weren't already underway.

Mario007

@Retro: care to elaborate on the hate for Nomura? He seems to be doing quite well with KH and Versus (but that's just my opnion of course).

@ancapailldocrcha: I think Matsuno is at Level 5 working on some small project as that's what he wanted to do.

Retr0gamer

If you think Kingdom Hearts is a great series then something is wrong with you. The guy can't write a scenario or dialogue to save his life and I've not enjoyed any of his games he has been in charge of, except the original KH but it'sgone way off the rails. I'd go so far as to say that of any videogame, film, comic or book Kingdom Hearts has what could be the worst storyline ever written be it by mankind or space beings. It's fun but that's not Nomuras area, everythign with a bang of Nomura off it is ****. He should stick to being an artist because he can't direct a game. He needs someone there to rein his ego in like on the first KH game.

As for Versus 13? Seriously? The games development is a joke. He's hardly a good director when the game is looking like it could be the next Duke Nukem Forever.

Kitase or Toriyama would get my vote. Keep Nomura away from anything but art design. Matsuno would be a dream come true but I doubt he'll be back. Also no to Akitoshi Kawazu, he's too experimental.

Mario007

i get what you mean, though i have to say I've actually enjoyed the first kh the least and the subsequent ones more so thanks to the a ff-esque feel to it. Though I do agree that the character development of the main party (sora, donald and goofy) is quite awful and the dialogues are quite cheesy.

With regards to Versus it has actually only started proper development this year...that was Square's mistake really, announcing a game without actual plans to develop it anytime soon (like in Type-0's case).

I'd probably go for Kitase myself, simply because Toriyama has been given 3 chances with X-2 being fun but not great and XIII being polarising. Having said that XIII-2 is looking great. I'd pick Tabata but he seems to be busy with Type subseries from now on. Then again maybe someone new might step up just like Yoshida did for XIV.

RedXIV

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Also no to Akitoshi Kawazu, he's too experimental.

Experimental isn't always bad! I've no problem with someone trying something new, it may flop but on the other hand, it may excel

Retr0gamer

Oh definitely not but his games are usually not just experimental but also ****. His portfolio includes Final Fantasy 2, Legend of Mana and the entire Saga series including the god awful Unlimited Saga. If he's in charge there's a 95% chance it will suck balls and a 100% chance you won't understand the mechanics even after you finish the game.

ancapailldorcha

Shame about Matsuno. My JRPG experience is limited to about 8 FFs and the incredible Demon's Souls. I gave XII quite a bit of hate as it was the second one I played (after FFX). After playing more of them it was a nice change to the formula as opposed to the "Let's get together to slay the bad guy and then the guy who was pulling his strings because he wasn't bad in the first place" approach which seems to be an annoyingly common theme (

Edea, Golbez & Sin spring to mind

).
Nomura seems to be good as a character designer. I haven't played KH and I'm not too well up on who's who in the world of JRPGs.

Not that this is relevant to anything but is there a reason why Cloud's buster sword is bandaged in KH?

Retr0gamer

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Shame about Matsuno.

He's a great storyteller, I like how his storylines are like Suikodens were nobody is pure evil or have decent motives behind why they are bad unlike the FF games which can be flaky to say the least other thanwith Kefka.

You should check out Vagrant Story and Tactics Ogre if you like Matsuno's story telling. Tactics Ogre in particular is a take on the 90's war in the Balkans.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Not that this is relevant to anything but is there a reason why Cloud's buster sword is bandaged in KH?

Yes, Nomura.

It's just a miracle it's not covered in zippers like this abomination

ancapailldorcha

I might just do that. Are many of them on the PC/PSN?

Wow, that's a lot of zippers. I mean, why are they on the back of Donald's cap? I think Gabranth might just be my fave FF baddie until I check out VI. On the subject, I loved Vayne and Cid's motives. Such a refreshing change to the old formula. I really hope XII sees a PS3 release.

Retr0gamer

Tactics Ogre is on PSN, it's a PSP game.

Vagrant Story is on PSN and a PS1 game so works on PS3 and PSP.

ancapailldorcha

Thanks Retr0!

CodeMonkey

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anybody but Nomura.

I just googled him and found out that he directed Advent Children. I think I care more about how badly this turned out than his games. Great animation, design etc but the movie shows how he lacks any talent in the directorial and narrative department.

RedXIV

Lets be fair here though, there was no way Advent Children was gonna turn out as the pivotal moment in FFVII canon. As an action nut, I wanted way more fighting in my movie, whereas my friend wanted to see all the previous locations in perfectly rendered glory. We both enjoyed FFVII but neither of us was satisfied with AC.

Nomura was fighting a losing battle from the get-go there.

Retr0gamer

I'm sorry but Advent Children was a total mess, nothing more.

RedXIV

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm sorry but Advent Children was a total mess, nothing more.

I was trying to say that in a diplomatic way

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If you think Kingdom Hearts is a great series then something is wrong with you. The guy can't write a scenario or dialogue to save his life and I've not enjoyed any of his games he has been in charge of, except the original KH but it'sgone way off the rails..

There must be something wrong with me so.

K2 was better than one, even if the story went haywire.

Birth by Sleep is simply an excellent game - perfectly combining a more basic battle system with a more concise story.

ancapailldorcha

Dare I ask but

is there a reason Sephiroth lets Cloud cut him up at the end?

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

There must be something wrong with me so.

K2 was better than one, even if the story went haywire.

Birth by Sleep is simply an excellent game - perfectly combining a more basic battle system with a more concise story.

They're fun but my god is the story bad.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Dare I ask but

is there a reason Sephiroth lets Cloud cut him up at the end?

Are we talking about the end of FFVII??

ancapailldorcha

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Are we talking about the end of FFVII??

No, AC.

RedXIV

as far as I recall,

As Sephiroth is gloating over knocking 7 shades of **** out of Cloud, Cloud shoots up from the debris to perform the multi-sword omnislash. As he starts there's a moment of "uh oh" seen on Sephiroth's face which I think is supposed to mean he hadn't got time to react.....which in itself is bollox considering earlier speed.

Retr0gamer

I've a different interpretation:

The film was **** stop thinking there's anything deeper than Nomura saying 'this would look cool' behind it :P

Mario007

RedXIV wrote: »

as far as I recall,

As Sephiroth is gloating over knocking 7 shades of **** out of Cloud, Cloud shoots up from the debris to perform the multi-sword omnislash. As he starts there's a moment of "uh oh" seen on Sephiroth's face which I think is supposed to mean he hadn't got time to react.....which in itself is bollox considering earlier speed.

the complete edition does have a nice throwback

as cloud isn't stabbed in the shoulder but sephiroth's sword goes right through cloud kinda like the memory in that jenova reactor back in ff 7.

complete edition is actually a passable watch, as it adds many scenes which actually connect the plot pace it better. they especially make denzel much more important. overall, i enjoyed AC as an action film with ff 7 fanservice, nothing less nothing more.

on topic, though. apparently the dude who made ff 9 and ff 12 (forgot his name) is away working on some project with his team for a long time. So that could be ff 15. also from what i've read on the internet there very well could be renaming of versus to ff 15.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

They're fun but my god is the story bad.

You haven't played Birth by Sleep though!

Mario007

noodler wrote: »

You haven't played Birth by Sleep though!

i found this explanation of the story to be hilarious but it nicely sums up all the 6 games. plus it actually makes it straight forward

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8cPyvE2GTjOMzE4MTVlZTctMjE5Yi00YzAzLWJjZTAtZTllODY2OTc2MTMx&hl=en_US

btw yeah BBS is actually pretty good in the story department.

noodler

Mario007 wrote: »

i found this explanation of the story to be hilarious but it nicely sums up all the 6 games. plus it actually makes it straight forward

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B8cPyvE2GTjOMzE4MTVlZTctMjE5Yi00YzAzLWJjZTAtZTllODY2OTc2MTMx&hl=en_US

btw yeah BBS is actually pretty good in the story department.

I like to think about the BBS story bringing us nicely to the plot of KH3 and I just forget about everything in between!

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

You haven't played Birth by Sleep though!

I'll get around to it eventually but I doubt there's anything they can do to redeem themselves and the cluster**** of KH2 (which I haven't finished but have heard a summayr of).

noodler wrote: »

I like to think about the BBS story bringing us nicely to the plot of KH3 and I just forget about everything in between!

We won't see KH3 at all until Versus 13 is out. The KH team is the versus 13 and while they are still stuck developing that square will keep pumping out the spin-offs.

Mario007

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'll get around to it eventually but I doubt there's anything they can do to redeem themselves and the cluster**** of KH2 (which I haven't finished but have heard a summayr of).



We won't see KH3 at all until Versus 13 is out. The KH team is the versus 13 and while they are still stuck developing that square will keep pumping out the spin-offs.

well there seems to be a new kh team now, the osaka team. they did bbs and are now doing ddd which are both considered as pretty much numbered titles and bbs is the best kh game by far. so maybe, just maybe, square gets them to do kh3.

definitely get bbs. the story is much better thought out, the battle system is fun and its pretty much a fresh start. btw what didn't you like about kh2? was it the retardation of sora, donald and goofy, the non-relevance or disney worlds or the including the nobodies into the game?

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'll get around to it eventually but I doubt there's anything they can do to redeem themselves and the cluster**** of KH2 (which I haven't finished but have heard a summayr of).



We won't see KH3 at all until Versus 13 is out. The KH team is the versus 13 and while they are still stuck developing that square will keep pumping out the spin-offs.

I won't spoil anything for you re: BBS but the ending quite clearly sets us up for the next one - it couldn't be more explicit! (whenever that is!)

I loved it, you can play through the story three times (you should anyway) with the three different optional characters. Each playthrough has gaps in it which are filled in by the next character's playthrough. SOundtrack and voice-acting is also quite good for me (Len Nimoy is excellent!)

noodler

Mario007 wrote: »

definitely get bbs. the story is much better thought out, the battle system is fun and its pretty much a fresh start. btw what didn't you like about kh2? was it the retardation of sora, donald and goofy, the non-relevance or disney worlds or the including the nobodies into the game?

I very much enjoyed 2. It was easier to get into than the first one which was really quite crap for the first 3 or 4 worlds.

But it was also piss easy by comparison to one, it was great seeing Squall and Cloud etc but some of the story was just like wut?

Mario007

noodler wrote: »

I very much enjoyed 2. It was easier to get into than the first one which was really quite crap for the first 3 or 4 worlds.

But it was also piss easy by comparison to one, it was great seeing Squall and Cloud etc but some of the story was just like wut?

I enjoyed too (apart from the overall easy theme), especially the very start with Roxas. It felt much more like FF which I liked. But having said sora, donald and goofy were a little bit stupid (stupider than kh 1 even).

but i agree with you, kh 1 wasn't that great. it was simply going from world to world closing a few gates until the very end when the story finally took off. i think this is why bbs is the best simply because of the interaction with the disney worlds and how it changed ven, terra and aqua.

i have high hopes for DDD for the exact same thing (its actually the one thing that made me not to sell my 3ds after the summer)

Retr0gamer

I own BBS just not gotten around to it.

It might lead in KH3 but square have been leading into KH3 for ages now. I've bad news if you think that DDD will be KH3. They say it takes place after the events of KH2 but it's just the characters having flashbacks to events before KH2.

The Osaka team aren't replacing the Versus team on KH, not if Nomura has anything to do about it. they're a b-team filling making sure nobody forgets the series while the KH team is stuck in development hell. It might be good filler but we won't see KH3 until Versus is finished.

Mario007

i took the Osaka team as a b-team as well but after BBS and the trailers for DDD I wouldn't mind them doing a kh3.

Btw with regards DDD the story

is set, for a while in a dream world where Sora and Riku are trying to pass the mark of mastery exam. Nomura said that this is, however, only a part of the whole game so presumably we'll see some events outside of the dream world.

There's no flashbacks to pre kh2 era a all, from the trailers. It's a full blown sequel pretty much, advancing the story forward.

The problem with leading to kh3 is that after kh2 there simply wasn't anything to base kh1 on. the ending was perfect (apart from the message in the bottle). so i guess that was part of the reason they went the prequel route with BBS

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I own BBS just not gotten around to it.

It might lead in KH3 but square have been leading into KH3 for ages now. I've bad news if you think that DDD will be KH3.

When you do, remember you'll need about 10 hours for each of the three playthroughs (obv the first is the hardest).

Again don't want to spoil everything for you but I was actually semi-emotional when I watched the secret final ending for BBS and how everything ties in.

I am kind of building it up now though so I will stop.

ancapailldorcha

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I've a different interpretation:

The film was **** stop thinking there's anything deeper than Nomura saying 'this would look cool' behind it :P

Couldn't help myself.

kickarykee

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anybody but Nomura.

Sorry to disagree, but:
Nomura

Love his games, especially those for which he also wrote the story...

Mario007

So I was thinking about the people at Square that could make the game and here's what I've got:

Nomura- he's working on Versus and unless they rename it to FF 15 (which they very well could) he won't be making a numbered FF entry. He himself stated that he will only be a character designer for FF after Versus and will concentrate instead on KH.

Toriyama- he did the last two FF titles, both of which had some very interesting ideas and very fundamental flaws. His director skills seem to work well with non-linear FF titles set in a universe created by someone else (e.g. FFX-2, FF XIII-2) but the guy can't write a decent story (I enjoyed FF XIII's story but that was still done with help of Nojima and you could see bits that Toriyama wrote, i.e. the ending). He said he's moving onto his next project which seems to imply that he's leaving the team he worked with on FF XIII and FF XIII-2 since they are still doing DLC's for FF XIII-2.

Kitase- Producer of the last two FF titles and director of the fan favourite FF VII. He's most likely overseeing the DLC work for FF XIII-2 and he himself said he's also overseeing the remake of FF X HD. He seems to have his hand busy but judging by his previous career maybe this is the guy who could direct the next FF. As a producer, I think, he failed as he let Toriyama go really wild.

Tabata- Director of Crisis Core, The 3rd Birthday, FF Type-0 (this one he wrote too, I think). His career is dominated by PSP but he said he wants to move to home consoles now. His track record is pretty good apart from T3B which many bash for an awful story (yes, written by Toriyama). Tabata himself said he wants to work on another Aya Brea game and that SE will want him to make another Type game, so he's out of the race.

Ito- co-director of FF XII and director of FF IX. Not much is known about what he's doing right now. He is working on an announced, presumably away from Tokyo as they had to sent him a build of Vaan from Dissidia 012 by email for approval. Maybe that simply means he's in Osaka, maybe he's working on a title in the West. SE said they want to make a game with their japanese side overseeing the project and the programmers in the west actually developing the title. This could also be finishing up of Fortress the WRPG sequel to FF XII.

That's all the people I know off that would have what it takes to make an FF game and are still in SE. Nojima is freelance but I hope SE employs him to write the script for the next game. Or maybe have multiple directors and writers like with FF X where Toriyama was scenario director.

So what do you guys think?