Aer Lingus - Ireland to Australia

dubberdo

I was just thinking of Air New Zealand and how they route London via USA to New Zealand.

We know there would be stiff competition if Aer Lingus ever routed East and at that there isn't the critical mass to sustain a route to Oz and to make it sustainable you would need people travelling to connect via the stop over like what Emerates/Etihad do (a very limited option for Aer Lingus really)...

But, Aer Lingus have a good working relationship with United (Barajas - Dulles) and also they feed Irish passengers for onward travel within the States and Canada. So would it be an option for Aer Lingus if/when they start flying to Western States again to have a codeshare or some sort of agreement that Aer Lingus could fly San Fran/L.A. to Sydney and be allowed pick up passengers in the States? With the new aircraft arriving in the next few years could they be put to that use?

That way the route via Western USA may be made more sustainable and they would pick up some market share going to Oz. Surely Ireland could bargain given the links with United and use of Shannon by the US government???

castie

Dont Air new zealand route through Hong Kong?

Lon -> Hong Kong -> Auckland return

Unless they go both ways?

Appears they do!

Also goes via Beijing??

BuffyBot

dubberdo wrote: »

But, Aer Lingus have a good working relationship with United (Barajas - Dulles) and also they feed Irish passengers for onward travel within the States and Canada. So would it be an option for Aer Lingus if/when they start flying to Western States again to have a codeshare or some sort of agreement that Aer Lingus could fly San Fran/L.A. to Sydney and be allowed pick up passengers in the States? With the new aircraft arriving in the next few years could they be put to that use?

Why would Aer Lingus fly west coast to Sydney when United already do it themselves? (Even if they were theoretically allowed to). The manpower and aircraft resource needed vs the potential profit = zilch.

Unless they go both ways?

They do. Via HKG and LAX.

dubberdo

BuffyBot wrote: »

Why would Aer Lingus fly west coast to Sydney when United already do it themselves? (Even if they were theoretically allowed to). The manpower and aircraft resource needed vs the potential profit = zilch.

True, although they only fly to Sydney. Still a possibility with other cities all the same, Brisbane for example. Point being to get market share of those going down under otherwise taken by Emerates/Etihad with the attraction of only 1 stop over. Even if they didn't put aircraft on a route out of California they could still feed United and make a Western States route more sustainable I'd imagine...

orionm_73

I think the problem would be timing the flights to avoid a long (8hr) layover in either direction. There is massive competition on flights to Australia and a significant amount of passengers are price sensitive and will opt for the cheapest option regardless of # of stopovers.

cson

Flying East-West on a route that long would be a body clock nightmare.

steve-o

The distance from Ireland to Australia is much higher if you head west. Flying time would be at least 3 hours more each way. Not an improvement for passengers and too expensive to operate. And don't forget the joy of clearing US immigration, collecting your bags, clearing customs and rechecking your bags. That's a real selling point to transit passengers getting off a transpacific flight.

pclancy

I've done the trip both directions several times now with different airlines and stopovers. I always end up going to NZ as my endpoint though so its a long trip for me eitherways. I never want to do it again all in one go unless i have to come home for a family emergency of some kind. Stopoevers are a must for me, I don't fit well into Economy seats.

East-West does totally suck. The easiest i've done it was with a 7 day stopover in San Fran and even then the jetlag was horrible. Air NZ my fave airline though when i went through San Fran I went via Swissair half the legs. Their A340 was horrible.

Going via Asia is always nicer in my opinion now. Plenty of nice airlines with really good interiors and modern aircraft. Great price competion and the choice of tons of cheap warm stopovers, or the break of a few days in OZ. NZ is a good 4 hours past Austrailia which you have to take into account unless you do the mammouth Singapore/Bangkok/Hong Kong routes which are always full. Lots of choice with Air Asia, Cathay, Qantas, Emirates, Jetstar, Korean, Air NZ etc too makes for good prices and still the chance of good service/interiors.

As for Aer Lingus doing the same routes they'd have to seriously up their service and prices to compete. It would be great to fly direct to Ireland for many ex-pat Irish around Aus/Nz and certainly aid tourism so it could be a runner but they would have to price themselves into an already saturated market. How would they cope with the extra commercial, maintenance and logistical demands on flying several aircraft at their max ranges around the world?

The OneWorld and Star Alliance airline groups are already well represented down under too, are Aer Lingus still with either partnerships?

Tenger

steve-o wrote: »

......And don't forget the joy of clearing US immigration, collecting your bags, clearing customs and rechecking your bags. That's a real selling point to transit passengers getting off a transpacific flight.

US immigration and CBP procedures are now done before boarding your aircraft in DUB. SO you arrive as if you were a domestic pax into the USA.



I have gone to OZ both ways and I think the heading East was better. I overnighted in LA with mates so found that journey easier than the LHR-SIN-SYD with only a 3 hour layover. But overnights are not popular.

BrianD

Even with the recent increase in immigration to Australia I can't see where the market would be for Aer Lingus in having a route down under.

Delancey

pclancy wrote: »

The OneWorld and Star Alliance airline groups are already well represented down under too, are Aer Lingus still with either partnerships?

To my knowledge Aer Lingus walked away from the One World Alliance years ago as a cost-cutting measure.
Thats not to say they don't codeshare on certain routes.

Plowman

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dubberdo

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's actually travelling East that is hardest. Travelling West is easiest. It's all to do with the circadian rhythm of your body. Your body naturally operates a 25 hour clock. If you change your clock, like you do when you travel, you can adjust at a rate of about 1.5 hr/day to the new clock.

If you travel New York to Dublin @ 09.00, flight takes say 5 hrs and they are 5 hrs behind you will arrive at 09.00. You effectively have a 29 hr day. Your body clock is 25 hours = 4 hour jet lag.

If you travel New York to Dublin, we are 5 hours ahead so you will effectively have a 19 hour day suffering a 6 hour jet lag.

So, taking that you adapt at 1.5hr/day it will take longer to adjust travelling East.

Tea 1000

dubberdo wrote: »

It's actually travelling East that is hardest. Travelling West is easiest. It's all to do with the circadian rhythm of your body. Your body naturally operates a 25 hour clock. If you change your clock, like you do when you travel, you can adjust at a rate of about 1.5 hr/day to the new clock.

If you travel New York to Dublin @ 09.00, flight takes say 5 hrs and they are 5 hrs behind you will arrive at 09.00. You effectively have a 29 hr day. Your body clock is 25 hours = 4 hour jet lag.

If you travel New York to Dublin, we are 5 hours ahead so you will effectively have a 19 hour day suffering a 6 hour jet lag.

So, taking that you adapt at 1.5hr/day it will take longer to adjust travelling East.

I think you mean Dublin to New York in the first example there.

mountain

just as an aside,
aer lingus have flown to sydney at least once,
a good number of years i was at sydney airport and was very surprised to see an aer lingus plane,
apparently they had leased it to another airline.

Tenger

mountain wrote: »

just as an aside,
aer lingus have flown to sydney at least once,
a good number of years i was at sydney airport and was very surprised to see an aer lingus plane, apparently they had leased it to another airline.

It was an EI aircraft but it would not have been an EI flight. In the 70's and 80's Aer Lingus leased up to 40% of their fleet out each winter. Thus those aircraft operated all over the world. On occasion they returned to Dublin and were put back into service without the leasing airline's livery being removed. EG, there are many pics online of EI B747 in LAN Chile/Air Jamica liveries.
(Tony Ryan who was then an EI employee saw this business niche and left to set up GPA, which became at one point, the largest aircraft leasing company in the world. He made his fortune which allowed him to set up Ryanair!)


EI will not fly to Oz anytime soon,if ever. They currently have 7 A330. To operate to Oz using 1 of these would mean maybe a twice a week service. (>24 hours to get there with a stop, a 4-5 hours layover, 24 back) Twice a week ties up an aircraft for 5 days.

To offer a decent level of service they would have to have to operate 3 a week. So EI cannot do this unless they decide to abandon their current routes or get 2-3 new aircraft, neither of which will happen.

From January passengers will have the option of Emirates/Ethiad from Dublin to UAE, with service onto Oz/Asia. 2/3 daily flights with connections.
How could EI beat that?
Why would they even try?

Zonda999

Exactly, with emirates, you can now codeshare from dublin to any major city in Oz. As well as that, the younger generation that are now headin to Oz won't or wouldn't have any "loyalty" or whatever, they will simply go with the cheapest fare, whcih would probably be emirates

Tea 1000

Tenger wrote: »

EI will not fly to Oz anytime soon,if ever. They currently have 7 A330. To operate to Oz using 1 of these would mean maybe a twice a week service. (>24 hours to get there with a stop, a 4-5 hours layover, 24 back) Twice a week ties up an aircraft for 5 days.

To offer a decent level of service they would have to have to operate 3 a week. So EI cannot do this unless they decide to abandon their current routes or get 2-3 new aircraft, neither of which will happen.

From January passengers will have the option of Emirates/Ethiad from Dublin to UAE, with service onto Oz/Asia. 2/3 daily flights with connections.
How could EI beat that?
Why would they even try?

I think the main point of the thread was to assume that what you have said above is correct, and offer an alternative. The alternative being to resume their flight to LA or somewhere on the West coast of America, use the Shannon pre-clearance to cover the inconvenience of clearing customs over there, and link up with someone like Aer NewZealand or Quantas or someone from LA to Sydney or something similar.
That way they'd have a Shannon - Sydney offering or package, via LA, and they only need the one plane to the US.