BBC: Who, What, Why: Why are so many airline bosses Irish?

troposphere

The sight of airline bosses Willie Walsh and Michael O'Leary teaming up recently to urge the UK to scrap air passenger duties was a reminder of how the UK's airline industry is dominated by Irish men - and it's not only the UK's. The Celtic nation's influence extends to other airlines around the world. Why?


Like the Greeks and shipping, the Irish have a presence in the airlines business that far outstrips their size.

Continued

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Lapin

Interesting article. There even appears to be a hint of jealousy seeping through it.

Although I wish the BBC, and other influencial British media, could write about an Irish success without putting it down to our so called fondness for Guinness. Even if the quote was delivered by Joyce in this case. Such references are getting tedious and overshadow the fact that we work damn hard to punch above our weight in aviation.

A rant for another place and time perhaps.

Terrontress

It's not the BBC claiming that Guinness is the reason. It is a direct quote. See if you can work out who from.........? Still racist paddywhackery?

I think it is a very good article and highlights Ireland's success in consumer aviation. Of particular merit is the piece about Aer Lingus' initial organisation being entirely self-sufficient. The fact that the CEOs of two of the world's largest non-Irish airlines are Irish and that the world's largest airline in terms of international flights are Irish cannot be a coincidence.

xflyer

There's a lot of truth in the article including the reasons why there are so many Irish involved in aviation throughout the world.

What many younger people don't realise is that Aer Lingus was almost an arm of government at one stage. Certainly it was huge and had involvement in everything, passenger flying was only a part of the story. Hotels, maintenance and what is known as IT these days. Aer Lingus employees were seconded to provide management skill for airlines all over the place.

Pilots could find themselves seconded almost anywhere in the world. Aer Lingus would wet lease aircraft during the winter off season. I remember renewing my medical in St Bricins military hospital and meeting an Aer Lingus pilot looking fit and tanned just back from flying for some airline in Bali. Maintenance supervisors were often seconded for six months at a time almost anywhere in the world but particularly Africa. I worked with several of them and they all had fascinating tales of their time in the tropics.

When Kuwait was invaded by Iraq in 1990, there were Aer Lingus employees working out there. Indeed one, a friend, distinguished himself being at the forefront of negotiations to get other Irish out there released and allowed home.

Aer Lingus was the breeding ground for a whole series of businessmen who got their start there and moved on to set up successful businesses in other areas of aviation and beyond.

Remember too that it's only the tip of the iceberg. There are Irish at every level of International aviation.

Hard to believe when you look at the slimmed down version of Aer Lingus we see today.

Crey86

The Irish aviation industry is massive, there's a very larger aircraft leasing setup here as well as having the likes of Ryanair and AerLingus.
There's also room for a quality aircraft maintenance company here, unfortunately Mr McCarthy feels the need along with the other MRO's to pay peanuts. :mad:

Lapin

Terrontress wrote: »

It's not the BBC claiming that Guinness is the reason. It is a direct quote. See if you can work out who from.........? Still racist paddywhackery?

I think you should read my post again .

Ald

I think overall it's quite a complementary article. It delves into the history more than anything and Aer Lingus comes out very good in it... The Guinness remark is a non-story. Joyce made direct reference to Irish and aviation, of course you're going to use it. It's the opposite of what was seen in the Financial Times recently saying that aviation has lost its charm because of Irish CEOs.

Btw, don't forget Garret Fitzgerald worked for Aer Lingus too. I don't know if they'd be proud of Clare Daly (T.D.) but she worked there too...

Jesus Nut

Air Contractors is HUGE too dont forget!

Terrontress

Lapin wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

It's not the BBC claiming that Guinness is the reason. It is a direct quote. See if you can work out who from.........? Still racist paddywhackery?

I think you should read my post again .

I think you should read the article again and stop trying to find offense in everything.

Or go and drink some Guinness.

Terrontress

xflyer wrote: »

Pilots could find themselves seconded almost anywhere in the world. Aer Lingus would wet lease aircraft during the winter off season.

When you look up older photos of EI aircraft, they are often on lease to some far flung countries, particularly the 747s.

I believe Aer Rianta was also a global player in airports as well. Düsseldorf and Moscow are two which come to mind that had Aer Rianta ownership / involvement.

Tenger

xflyer wrote: »

........What many younger people don't realise is that Aer Lingus was almost an arm of government at one stage. Certainly it was huge and had involvement in everything.......................Aer Lingus was the breeding ground for a whole series of businessmen who got their start there and moved on to set up successful businesses in other areas of aviation and beyond......
Hard to believe when you look at the slimmed down version of Aer Lingus we see today.

Absolutely. Sean Lemass really pushed for aviation to act as a flagship for 'modern Ireland'. Ireland was neutral in the Cold War so many countries used our aviation expertise to help their own airlines start up.

Tony Ryan is seen as a visionary with GPA, but what he did was start up a new company to do exactly what EI themselves had been doing for years. Look online and you will see dozens of images of EI aircraft in liveries of other carriers. EI engineers/pilots/crew went all over the world assisting other airlines.

In addition EI was among the first airlines to have their own live flight booking software (I think there were 2-3 others) Thus the EI software (ASTRAL)was used by many European airlines.

At point in the 1990's EI was the largest 3rd party ground handling operation at LHR,

"Flight of the Iolar" gives lots of details of these operations.

Just look at Ireland now. 1 legacy carrier, the ultimate ULCC, 2 small niche carriers, a large charter operator, Dublin is also home to offices for most of the large aircraft leasing companies.

ballsymchugh

xflyer wrote: »

When Kuwait was invaded by Iraq in 1990, there were Aer Lingus employees working out there. Indeed one, a friend, distinguished himself being at the forefront of negotiations to get other Irish out there released and allowed home.

i may be completely wrong, but did they have a hand to play in running the PARC hospital in baghdad too??

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=312672727748

Ald

Terrontress wrote: »

When you look up older photos of EI aircraft, they are often on lease to some far flung countries, particularly the 747s.

I believe Aer Rianta was also a global player in airports as well. Düsseldorf and Moscow are two which come to mind that had Aer Rianta ownership / involvement.

Indeed, I was in Delhi this year and got chatting to two lads that worked in duty free (one of Aer Rianta's) there. They were telling me the manager was from Ireland and they celebrated St. Patrick's Day in the airport there!

Fattes

I don't know if they'd be proud of Clare Daly (T.D.) but she worked there too...

From what I have heard she was a proper Union employee spent more time peeing of managment than working.

Great Article.

cson

A lot of it is down to the legacy of GPA.

ciarang85

omega air aswell

Lapin

Terrontress wrote: »

It's not the BBC claiming that Guinness is the reason. It is a direct quote. See if you can work out who from.........? Still racist paddywhackery?

Terrontress wrote: »

I think you should read the article again and stop trying to find offense in everything.

Or go and drink some Guinness.

I did say it was a direct quote but you chose to ignore that and allude that I was somehow accusing the author of "racist paddywhackery".
I seriously resent that remark.
You twisted my comment it to portray something I never said in the first place.
I simply pointed out something in an otherwise interesting the article that I find tedious and and replied to it as such.

I concluded by saying that my comment is better suited to another time or place.
I still think it is and therefore don't want to take this thread off topic.
But I will not sit back while someone else suggests that I made allegations of racism.

Terrontress

Lapin wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

It's not the BBC claiming that Guinness is the reason. It is a direct quote. See if you can work out who from.........? Still racist paddywhackery?

Terrontress wrote: »

I think you should read the article again and stop trying to find offense in everything.

Or go and drink some Guinness.

I did say it was a direct quote but you chose to ignore that and allude that I was somehow accusing the author of "racist paddywhackery".
I seriously resent that remark.
You twisted my comment it to portray something I never said in the first place.
I simply pointed out something in an otherwise interesting the article that I find tedious and and replied to it as such.

I concluded by saying that my comment is better suited to another time or place.
I still think it is and therefore don't want to take this thread off topic.
But I will not sit back while someone else suggests that I made allegations of racism.

Fine. I apologise. End of. Move on.

Tenger

cson wrote: »

A lot of it is down to the legacy of GPA.

Which itself was created due to the demand that EI had identified and Tony Ryan then decided to take advantage of. Tony Ryan learnt the trade while at EI. While an EI employees he set up Air Siam, then left to set up GPA.

I also forgot the Mc Evaddy Brothers, global players in aircraft leasing. Is Omega Air theirs?

xflyer

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i may be completely wrong, but did they have a hand to play in running the PARC hospital in baghdad too??

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=312672727748[/QUOTE]

I think so, the Irish staff at that hospital impressed the Iraqis by staying on in the face of Iranian air raids during the very first Gulf war. All the rest of the foreigners fled home.

Tenger wrote: »

Which itself was created due to the demand that EI had identified and Tony Ryan then decided to take advantage of. Tony Ryan learnt the trade while at EI. While an EI employees he set up Air Siam, then left to set up GPA.

I also forgot the Mc Evaddy Brothers, global players in aircraft leasing. Is Omega Air theirs?

Yes indeed, met them a few times. Omega Air's original office was over their ice rink in the not so salubrious Dolphin's Barn.

Whatever you say about Aer Lingus, it's left quite a legacy in Irish aviation.

A320

im sorry but the exact same article appeared in the Irish Independent businees section about 2/3 weeks ago

IrishB.ie

Like the Greeks and shipping, the Irish have a presence in the airlines business that far outstrips their size.

Anyone email Tyler Brule this article to get his opinion on it?

xflyer

No don't, he'd just think we're hypersensitive about any criticism and he'd be right, we are.

We should be like the French, arrogant? Mai oui! 'Cheese eating surrender monkies' Ah those Amercains, ze are so arrogant.

Part of being a grown up country is taking it on the chin and taking a pride in being criticised.

I know we're going through a bit of a bad time. But we Irish should be proud of ourselves and a pleased that someone takes the time to have a go at us.

We should be proud that we have a bunch of kickass Paddies sorting out the airline world. Slaughtering all those sacred cows and making airline world something the common man and woman takes for granted.

cson

Tenger wrote: »

Which itself was created due to the demand that EI had identified and Tony Ryan then decided to take advantage of. Tony Ryan learnt the trade while at EI. While an EI employees he set up Air Siam, then left to set up GPA.

I also forgot the Mc Evaddy Brothers, global players in aircraft leasing. Is Omega Air theirs?

Ultimately he created [and in the end destroyed] the biggest aircraft leasing company in the world for a time which leads me to the point I'm trying to make in that through creating such an entity he attracted the best Irish talent and effectively rendered GPA an Aviation Business Professional hub/centre of excellence.

You can still see the net result of it all today as we're still a major aircraft leasing hub with the likes of GECAS/Avalon/AWAS/Genesis/RBS all resident here thanks to the level of expertise that GPA generated which itself was birthed out of Tony Ryan's time at EI as you rightly point out Tenger.

Tenger

cson wrote: »

Ultimately he created [and in the end destroyed] the biggest aircraft leasing company in the world for a time which leads me to the point I'm trying to make in that through creating such an entity he attracted the best Irish talent and effectively rendered GPA an Aviation Business Professional hub/centre of excellence.....

I thought to look up the GPA wikipedia page (yes I know)
Many of the directors and staff of GPA subsequently went on to work in other aircraft lessors, such as GECAS, Genesis Lease, CIT, ILFC, Pembroke Capital, debis AirFinance (now AerCap), International Aircraft Management Group (now part of RBS), Babcock & Brown and Aircastle. The availability of this cadre of highly trained specialists in Ireland is one of the principal reasons .............why the country has become one of the worldwide centres of the commercial aircraft financing and leasing industry............

I must go back and have another read through my copy of Flight of the Iolar for info on the 1970's in Irish aviation.