Budget - education

trihead

The devil is in the detail as everyone has been saying this evening..........teacher allowances is a surprise to me especially as it will affect current teachers who might study for a Masters or Phd in the future. The others are going to causes problems too but were 'flagged' a bit more.

The key changes in education: Taken from Irish Times

Guidance: At second level, with effect from 2012/13 school year guidance provision will be managed by schools from within their standard teacher allocation. Full year saving €32 million.


Private schools: One point increase in the staffing schedule for all fee-charging schools. These changes will increase the pupil-teacher ratio for fee-paying schools to 21:1 with effect from the 2012/13 school year. Department will also conduct a specific analysis on tuition fee income available to schools in the sector and its utilisation. Full year saving €3.2 million.


Language support: The Budget contained a provision to reduce language support posts over a four-year period from an original level of about 1,400 posts to a reduced level of about 900 posts in 2014/15 school year. The current level of language support posts is about 1,120 posts. The remaining reduction of about 220 posts will be implemented in the 2013/14 and 2014/15 school years. Most of this reduction will be at primary level as this is the sector where most are currently allocated.

Teaching posts: When account is taken of additional posts for demographics at primary and second level the net overall reduction on teaching posts for the 2012/13 school year compared to the current school year is estimated to be of the order of 200 posts.
The Budget measures announced today include target savings of a further 520 teaching posts (490 posts at primary level and 30 posts at second level) that come into effect from the 2013/14 school year onwards.

Teacher allowances: Any teacher being employed for the first time in a recognised school will not be able to obtain an allowance at a level greater than that applying to those who hold an honours degree. This means that qualifications at masters or doctorate level will not be paid, and those who hold a H.Dip will not be permitted through any combination of allowances to exceed the level of allowance payable in respect of an honours degree.

This measure does not affect allowances being paid at present to existing teachers. However those teachers will not be paid any additional allowance if they acquire any further qualification. Allowances paid for qualifications that relate to specific posts will continue to be paid but will be subject to examination in the review.

Funding for Schools / School Programmes : Overall there will be a 2 per cent reduction in the funding for capitation and related grants to primary and second level schools in each of 2012 and 2013 and a further 1 per cent reduction in each of 2014 and 2015. Full year saving €20.6 million.

Modern languages: The Modern Languages in Primary Schools Initiative, which has operated on a pilot basis since 1998, will be abolished. This is a long-running pilot scheme involving approximately 500 schools. Saving in 2012/13 is set at €2.5 million, with full year savings of €2.5 million. Savings will go towards the cost of implementing the Literacy & Numeracy Strategy.

The administration fee paid to schools for the supervision/substitution scheme will be reduced from 5 per cent to 2 per cent Full year saving €1.5 million.

Higher Education: The student contribution will increase by €250 for the academic year 2012/13.

There will be a 2 per cent reduction in core funding for higher education. Full year total savings €19 million.

Student grants and scholarships : There will be changes to the fee and maintenance grants system for post-graduate studies for new entrants which currently benefits over 9,000 students. No maintenance grants will be paid for new entrants from the 2012/13 academic year. Fees will continue to be paid for those students that would previously have qualified for the special rate of grant.

The means test for student maintenance grants will be amended to take account of the value of certain capital assets as well as income. This will be introduced in the 2013/14 academic year for new entrants.


thanks


Trihead;)

delta_bravo

So with regards to the allowances - am I right in saying that new teachers will only receive the honours degree allowance, even if they hold a PHD or god forbid, even a H.Dip?

TheDriver

sounds like that, hons degree is all they get. Now TBH the masters allowance and PhD allowance isn't a massive amount more than the Hons degree allowance.

delta_bravo

TheDriver wrote: »

sounds like that, hons degree is all they get. Now TBH the masters allowance and PhD allowance isn't a massive amount more than the Hons degree allowance.

Yeah its about 500/750 quid I think. Still though it seems that the new entrants are being loaded with the cuts to stop the more experienced teachers from protesting.

delta_bravo

delta_bravo wrote: »

Yeah its about 500/750 quid I think. Still though it seems that the new entrants are being loaded with the cuts to stop the more experienced teachers from protesting.

Very good point, I was wondering why only new entrants were being saddled with these cuts, it's totally unfair. Especially on the many young teachers who are so good and would wipe the floor with some of the ones in the profession already and won't be subjected to these cuts.

spurious

Deleted User wrote: »

Very good point, I was wondering why only new entrants were being saddled with these cuts, it's totally unfair. Especially on the many young teachers who are so good and would wipe the floor with some of the ones in the profession already and won't be subjected to these cuts.

Yawn - there are very many excellent teachers among established staff, so you can stop that 'the young ones are better than the oldies' for a start. There is plenty 'divide and conquer' going on without teachers starting it too.

It's more likely to be a legal or contractual constraint that stops them cutting allowances.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

Yawn - there are very many excellent teachers among established staff, so you can stop that 'the young ones are better than the oldies' for a start. There is plenty 'divide and conquer' going on without teachers starting it too.

It's more likely to be a legal or contractual constraint that stops them cutting allowances.

Sorry I didn't mean to get into that at all, of course there's good and bad teachers no matter what age they are. My point was that it's just unfair on the ones who are brilliant and about to join the system. But anyway there's nothing that can be done about it if there's legel constraints in contracts.

maeve scully

Budget 2012 announced the decision to remove the ex quota allocation of guidance hours and instead include them within the general schoolteacher/pupil ratio. As guidance counsellors and principal we are horrified at this plan.
The Education Act of 1998 states that a school ‘Shall ensure that students have access to appropriateguidance to assist them in their educational and career choices’.
On a daily basis we deal with vulnerable students who need support to deal with all sorts of issues. Adolescence is a trying time for young people, but many are dealing with additional issues and support for them is vital. The family structure as we knew it has changed dramatically over the years and this poses a myriad of additional problems for young people who are struggling to find their own identity. An increasing number of students are suffering from the very serious and very real issues around mental health and self-harm in addition to many other personal problems - these students are supported through one to one counselling. Without guidance support students can’t hope to focus on their school work and will not achieve their full potential particularly at junior or leaving cert examinations.
If we allow this cut in guidance hours to post-primary schools to become a reality, then young people will suffer. Where will the student who feels suicidal go? Where will the student who feels overwhelmed because of a situation at home go? (bereavement, separation, arguments, abuse) Where will the young girl who thinks she may be pregnant go? What about the student who becomes so stressed about the leaving certificate that they cannot eat or sleep? Students who may feel they have no one else to talk to.
This is the reality of what we deal with as guidance counsellors on a daily basis. If the ex-quota guidance hours become part of the general pupil/teacher allocation then, who in school will have the time to talk to these students, to listen to them, to support them, to talk to their parents, to see them through their crisis?
When a student is referred to an external agency, Guidance counsellors play a vital role in liaising with the agencies and supporting the students and their families. If we as guidance counsellors can no longer provide these links, it will have serious implications for the mental health of many.
School Management will have to choose between offering support or a subject.
The introduction of the new guidelines for the protection and welfare of children 2011 produced by the Minister for the Office of Children and Youth Affairs 2011 articulate clearly the roles and responsibilities of schools in this regard. It specifically states that ‘it may be necessary in large schools for designated staff to monitor the progress of children considered to be at risk’, the guidelines also state that ‘teachers are the main care-givers to children outside of the family context’. Guidance counsellors fulfil this role already, however the introduction of statutory National Guidelines for Child Protection on the one hand and withdrawing guidance counsellors who assist in implementing and supporting these guidelines on the other is contradictory.
Our school ethos is to provide holistic education for our students, this will prove very difficult if guidance hours are cut. At the moment in our school, we have 36 hours per week to cater for the educational, career, social and personal needs of 860 students. Management and other staff are already stretched to the limit so it would be a serious misjudgement to think that this work would be picked up elsewhere in the school.
Students are assisted by their guidance counsellor in making decisions around career/course choice. Students need all the support and guidance they can get with this very difficult decision at a time whenthey are also trying to prepare for exams. The opportunity for students -and parents -to talk through their option and voice their own thoughts allows them to be clearer about what they want and so make better and more informed decisions. Are these students now going to be abandoned and left to their own devices?
ESRI research shows the need for more guidance, particularly one to one guidance and guidance for junior cycle students. How will this be done if the government goes ahead with this proposal?
The Education Act refers to students' right to "appropriate guidance" .The question is: Is the Government going to support us in providing appropriate guidance to students or does the government regard it as “appropriate” to remove this support.
There is no doubt that a decision to remove ex quota guidance hours would be detrimental to the welfare of students. The general public need to be alert to the implications of this decision by government.
We ask for your support in ensuring that there is no threat to the provision of ex quota guidance allocation to our schools.

rainbowtrout

Deleted User wrote: »

Very good point, I was wondering why only new entrants were being saddled with these cuts, it's totally unfair. Especially on the many young teachers who are so good and would wipe the floor with some of the ones in the profession already and won't be subjected to these cuts.

Older staff are also getting these cuts. Those that have the allowances will be able to keep them, but anyone who is doing a Masters/PhD or planning to do one in the future who is already in the system, will not get the extra allowance.

I am in the first year of my masters. I would have done it anyway regardless of allowances, but I suppose in one way over a number of years the small payrise for the extra qualification would have paid for the masters. I will not receive that allowance in 2 years time.

To be honest I was wondering when this cut would come in. I was expecting it in the last budget. Working off the premise that all teachers should have a degree and a HDip, it makes the idea of getting an allowance for each sound daft, when they are the standard basic qualifications needed for teaching.

I feel sorry for anyone who has started a Career Guidance post grad this year or last year and who will now more than likely get little or no work from it.

Kimmy-XxX

I always thought I would do a masters somewhere down the line. With the scrapping of maintenance grants and the removal of allowances, I really don't think I will. Of course I would enjoy the further education but for me it doesn't make financial sense.

I've applied for the PDE next year. The closing date for applications was December 1st and prospective students like myself submitted our forms with the knowledge that maintenace grants had always been available. I know that there was speculation in the media about the removal of funding at postgrad level but absolutely nothing was confirmed and personally, I didn't think it would be scrapped completely. I have no idea how I'm going to pay for college next year. As for the year after, emigration?

golden virginia

maeve scully wrote: »

The Education Act of 1998 states that a school ‘Shall ensure that students have access to appropriate guidance to assist them in their educational and career choices’.

This argument is being used a lot in media, but.. but the act states that a school shall use its available resources to provide appropriate guidance.

I'm in support of guidance. The cut is terrible,, but so is the quasi-legal argument.

What worries me most, is the students who have disabilities. The guidance counsellors were so good at diagnosing and referring these protected students. how will this access to resources be replaced?

maeve scully

lobby your public representatives. let them all know how you feel. otherwise they think we dont mind these cuts or that they dont really affect people all that much.

I am a very very recent graduate from a Masters degree, i applied for the PDE/PGDE and am confident that i will obtain a place on a course starting in Sep 2012...

I could not be more sickened as i decided to do a masters degree last year instead of going ahead and doing the dip straight away!

Because i decided to become more qualified before i began to teach, i had to pay fees for the masters in excess of 6,000...

Only in reading this thread, i have realised that when i do get a post, i will now not recieve any additional allowance for being more quailified.. Furthermore, i have a student loan to pay back for the cost of the fees of the course... a masters degree which now has no use to me!! Basically a waste of a year, one in which i was completing to further my prospects for my future career in teaching...

Thanks a million Budget 2011...
Could have given us recent graduates a bit of a heads up.. W*nke*s!!:mad:

lestat21

As a teacher who qualified in 2010, I cant tell you that I dont give a damn about cuts to allowances. I care about cuts to teacher numbers, because although I have a desirable subject I havent been able to find work this year. I still have interviews to attend but there are always more experienced teachers looking for the same position. I would be happy to work at a vastly reduced wage, just to get the experience I need!!!

dory

Deleted User wrote: »

I am a very very recent graduate from a Masters degree, i applied for the PDE/PGDE and am confident that i will obtain a place on a course starting in Sep 2012...

I could not be more sickened as i decided to do a masters degree last year instead of going ahead and doing the dip straight away!

Because i decided to become more qualified before i began to teach, i had to pay fees for the masters in excess of 6,000...

Only in reading this thread, i have realised that when i do get a post, i will now not recieve any additional allowance for being more quailified.. Furthermore, i have a student loan to pay back for the cost of the fees of the course... a masters degree which now has no use to me!! Basically a waste of a year, one in which i was completing to further my prospects for my future career in teaching...

Thanks a million Budget 2011...
Could have given us recent graduates a bit of a heads up.. W*nke*s!!:mad:

That masters might be the difference between you getting a job and not. I really don't think it's a waste of a year just because you now won't get your €11 Euro extra per week. And that's before tax so it's more like €8 (€600 / 52). If it makes you stand out at interviews it will be worth it. And then when you go for a promotion of some sort it may stand to you again.

maeve scully

I also am annoyed with the cuts in allowances, grants, capitation etc but the cut in guidance is unfair to the young vulnerable students. The effect is going to be felt in the classroom and it meeans loss of jobs. lets focus on ONE education cut and try to reverse it. FOCUS people, FOCUS.

DeaKat

I'm abit confused about the masters/phd cut in allowances, does this apply to new teachers as in those who have not worked before and are completely new, or will it also apply to teachers who are out for a year or so and then get a new position and contract? (for ex. I have 7 yrs teaching experience and have my doctorate for which in my last job I did recieve the allowance) The PhD allowance per year is 6,140 euro- this would be a HUGE loss for us. (http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html). In addition, it appears that the allowance for the Postgraduate Diploma in Adult and community Education (the equivalent of the HDip for Adult Education) which has been promised as qualifying for an allowance will now not receive it. I'm halfway through this course- and now when I go back to work I will only receive the allowance equivalent to my Hons. Degree? Is this right ?!

TheDriver

I assume its for anyone who will be looking to get it, whether working or not. e.g. someone completes a masters, they won't get the allowance.

DeaKat

Okay, but what I mean is if you already have a masters/phd but you aren't working- when you go back working will you still get it?

rainbowtrout

DeaKat wrote: »

Okay, but what I mean is if you already have a masters/phd but you aren't working- when you go back working will you still get it?

Well if they implement the cuts the way the cuts on the pay scale came in last year you will probably retain whatever allowances you had from the last time you taught.

rainbowtrout

DeaKat wrote: »

I'm abit confused about the masters/phd cut in allowances, does this apply to new teachers as in those who have not worked before and are completely new, or will it also apply to teachers who are out for a year or so and then get a new position and contract? (for ex. I have 7 yrs teaching experience and have my doctorate for which in my last job I did recieve the allowance) The PhD allowance per year is 6,140 euro- this would be a HUGE loss for us. (http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html). In addition, it appears that the allowance for the Postgraduate Diploma in Adult and community Education (the equivalent of the HDip for Adult Education) which has been promised as qualifying for an allowance will now not receive it. I'm halfway through this course- and now when I go back to work I will only receive the allowance equivalent to my Hons. Degree? Is this right ?!

You wouldn't be losing 6140, which I don't think you will lose anyway if you already had it, but it would be the difference between the PhD allowance and the Hons Degree allowance which is about 1000.

rainbowtrout

Deleted User wrote: »

I am a very very recent graduate from a Masters degree, i applied for the PDE/PGDE and am confident that i will obtain a place on a course starting in Sep 2012...

I could not be more sickened as i decided to do a masters degree last year instead of going ahead and doing the dip straight away!

Because i decided to become more qualified before i began to teach, i had to pay fees for the masters in excess of 6,000...

Only in reading this thread, i have realised that when i do get a post, i will now not recieve any additional allowance for being more quailified.. Furthermore, i have a student loan to pay back for the cost of the fees of the course... a masters degree which now has no use to me!! Basically a waste of a year, one in which i was completing to further my prospects for my future career in teaching...

Thanks a million Budget 2011...
Could have given us recent graduates a bit of a heads up.. W*nke*s!!:mad:

You seem to place very little value on your masters as an educational qualification. I'm amazed by that. The reality of gaining a masters is that you would have earned approximately €500 a year more than if you just held an honours degree. Now when you consider that about half of that will be gone in tax, pension levy, USC etc your net gain is about €250 a year, or just under €5 a week.


Are you seriously suggesting that the only reason that you lashed out €6k on a masters was for a weekly pay rise of €5, and you see no value in it beyond that? I'm amazed that you equate 'furthering your prospects' with such a meagre sum of money. A number of teachers I work with have completed/are completing masters, myself included. I can tell you down to the last that the extra pay is not even a consideration. With the extra 250 in my pocket every year it would take me 32 years more to cover the cost of the course. I'm not in it for the money.

A masters can be useful at an interview where you might be up against people who are not as well qualified. It could be what gets your leg in the door. If you get a job in teaching eventually and stick it out long enough and decide you want to go into management, it could be a factor. It could be the qualification that gets you involved in another area of teaching or education.

If the sole reason that anyone in teaching is doing a masters is for the money they are living in cloud cuckoo land. The gains you get from education are not always measured financially.

trebormurf

More qualified??? You've only applied to do the PGDE??? Get real willya

delta_bravo

What I find most frustrating when applying for jobs that the schools seem more interested in what grades you got in your leaving cert. I did a masters to try and make me stand out a bit in my subject but I haven't had any success yet.

louiseok01

I also have a masters and am currently doing a hdip. I find this very frustrating. I also work in a school with the Modern languages and that was abolished in primary schools. We just have to stay positive. I’ll work voluntary if I have to until something comes along...is there still a demand for teachers in UK???