S&P may downgrade all 17 Euro Nations

Voltex

Looks like S&P are putting one across the bows of the euro zone before Fridays summit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204903804577080603317263424.html

Or will this be a step too far that prompts the EU to put a leash back on some of these agencies?

Dan_Solo

Voltex wrote: »

Looks like S&P are putting one across the bows of the euro zone before Fridays summit.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204903804577080603317263424.html

Or will this be a step too far that prompts the EU to put a leash back on some of these agencies?

What? Who do you think takes order from who in the new economic world order? Market >>>>>>>>> State.

irishh_bob

as someone said on another site this evening , unless the usa is downgraded to junk , any downgrade of germany will lack and credibility and is clearly politicaly motivated

kippy

One has to wonder how the fcuk these epic "Ratings agencies" missed the boat on Anglo and indeed the Irish state back in the day.

It is rather ironic as the previous poster has said, that the US seem to be avoiding this despite being in a far more precarious position, indeed the guys that the US owes could almost be as equally fubared should the US default.

mise_me_fein3

They all had freddie mac highly rated in 2008....America owes more than any other country ever owed. Their GDP is 100% that of it's debt...how can they say Germany is worse off....total bull

NIMAN

These rating agencies need taken out !!

swordofislam

The Standard is very Poor and it is making me a Moody Fitch.

Nody

kippy wrote: »

One has to wonder how the fcuk these epic "Ratings agencies" missed the boat on Anglo and indeed the Irish state back in the day.

It is rather ironic as the previous poster has said, that the US seem to be avoiding this despite being in a far more precarious position, indeed the guys that the US owes could almost be as equally fubared should the US default.

There is one significant difference though; US can print out their full debt in one go if needed, Germany et al can not.

Anyway rating agencies to me appear to always be two steps behind the market; they confirm the speculation/view of the market after it is taken but never before hand.

aidan24326

kippy wrote: »

One has to wonder how the fcuk these epic "Ratings agencies" missed the boat on Anglo and indeed the Irish state back in the day.

It baffles me why anyone takes any notices of these clowns any more. They were consistently hopelessly wrong back in the boom times and should be sidelined now as irrelevant.

Hayte

This is worth a read (you need a scribd login). Check the date of the interview and prepare to get very angry.

Scofflaw

Hayte wrote: »

This is worth a read (you need a scribd login). Check the date of the interview and prepare to get very angry.

The almost complete intertwining of the interests of the ratings agencies with those of their largest clients - who they rate - is a serious issue.

cordially,
Scofflaw

aidan24326

Hayte wrote: »

This is worth a read (you need a scribd login). Check the date of the interview and prepare to get very angry.

Any chance you could post the relevant part(s) of it for those of us not on scribd?

ednwireland

anyone watching storyville on bbc2, shows rating agencies selling sub prime loans rating them triple a and the betting it will fail. dont think the agencies have anything to be proud of

Mike 1972

kippy wrote: »

One has to wonder how the fcuk these epic "Ratings agencies" missed the boat on Anglo and indeed the Irish state back in the day.

Wouldnt this be the same (Bog)Standard and (P***)poor who gave AAA ratings to all those dodgy subprime mortgages which kicked the whole mess off in the firstplace.

Why does anyone take these clowns seriously now (or come to think of it even back then ?) :rolleyes:

Hayte

aidan24326 wrote: »

Any chance you could post the relevant part(s) of it for those of us not on scribd?

June 30th 2006

W@W: One necessary step in creating a really big investment fraud is hitching your company’s wagon to Wall Street’s perpetual financing machine.

Sean Egan: Yes. Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) are beautiful at that, by the way.

Aren’t they?

Oh, they’re the best at that. We don’t rate them anywhere near AAA.

I have the sense that with Fannie and Freddie we’re experiencing the investment equivalent of the Night of the Living Dead.

I like that analogy.

They’re “living” proof that financial institutions can be too big to fail.

It’s funny; we rate them at about A or A minus.

That highly?

Well, what we’d really like to rate them is probably about a single B+ or so. The reason why we don’t is because—our credibility—our rating is low enough so that we wave a red flag. I mean, it’s probably four or five notches away from S&P and Moody’s AAA. Then too, you have to give some credence to the idea that the Government will probably step in. But on a stand-alone basis, or if you assume that it’s only the $2.2 billion credit line that would be available from the Treasury, then they should be rated way down in the single-B or BB category.

Ah, the bond world is still so much more of a polite and genteel place than the equity markets.

I agree. Just think about it—Fannie and Freddie don’t have to put up any margin with the brokers dealers, because they’re rated AAA by S&P and Moody’s. It’s all so incestuous.

That alone must be worth zillions–

Imagine what would happen if they didn’t have even a portion of their supposed portfolio profits to report. We doubt that they actually have those profits; we doubt that real capital is there. And it seems like every couple of months another accounting fiasco surfaces either at Fannie or Freddie.

They’re still finding the corpses.

Our other major issue with them is that we question whether anyone really can effectively hedge a trillion-dollar-plus portfolio.

I’m sure they have hired somebody from MIT who thinks they’ve got it done.

Right, except when it comes down to it, there is no one on the other side of all those trades.

Either that, or everyone is on the other side of those trades, which is the same thing.

That’s a good way of putting it. You and I and every other taxpayerare actually on the other side.