Impact of Job Seekers based on a 5 day week instead of 6

n97 mini

Doesn't affect me but I know several people in the hairdressing business who have opted to work part-time so that they can keep SW payments.

Will this budget measure affect them?

Boskowski

I would imagine yes and shall hope so too as anyone who 'opts' doesn't really need it but is rather taking avail.

n97 mini

I would hope so too, as some industries seem to be reliant on part time staff being subsidised by SW, but that doesn't answer the question!

cee_jay

The change isn't coming into effect until July 2012, and from the Budget Factsheet seems to affect those in receipt of Jobseeker's Benefit only, not Jobseeker's Allowance.
I presume 5 days a week means you work 3 and get paid for 2, someone on a weekly rate of 188 that are now getting 94 euro for 3 days unworked, will then get 75.20 euro.

Doom

Why was it EVER based on a 6 day working week?? Seems a bit of a no brainer to reduce it.

Tayla

Taken from rte website:

Where a Jobseeker's Benefit recipient is working for part of a week, the payment entitlement will be based on a five-day week rather than a six-day week. Minister Joan Burton later said this would mean a cut of 20% for part-time workers receiving these benefits, with effect from July.
The cut arises from a reduction in the number of days on which the benefit is calculated. Currently, if a person works for three days in any week, he or she will receive half the payment on the basis that the "welfare week" lasts for six days. But from July, the "welfare week" will be reduced to five days, meaning that the individual concerned will lose one day's benefit.


According to a statement from Minister Burton, the reform will provide a greater incentive to part-time workers in receipt of the benefit to return to full-time employment.


Sunday working will be taken into account when calculating the amount of Jobseeker's Benefit or Jobseeker's Allowance to be paid

anymore

n97 mini wrote: »

I would hope so too, as some industries seem to be reliant on part time staff being subsidised by SW, but that doesn't answer the question!

Nor does it make any easier for people who want to set up thier own businesses, or for existing small businesses who have to compete aginst SW subsidised businesses.

n97 mini

Tayla wrote: »

from July, the "welfare week" will be reduced to five days, meaning that the individual concerned will lose one day's benefit.

To compensate surely people will opt to work 2.5 days or 2 days a week.

Losing a half day of taxed pay versus losing benefits. Is there any competition?

Tayla

n97 mini wrote: »

To compensate surely people will opt to work 2.5 days or 2 days a week.

Losing a half day of taxed pay versus losing benefits. Is there any competition?

It's just ridiculous, Joan said then that the reform will provide a greater incentive to part-time workers to return to full-time employment.

They know that the employers aren't going to take these people on full time, employers can barely afford part time workers as it is!

n97 mini

Tayla wrote: »

It's just ridiculous, Joan said then that the reform will provide a greater incentive to part-time workers to return to full-time employment.

They know that the employers aren't going to take these people on full time, employers can barely afford part time workers as it is!

The softly softly approach doesn't really work. The hairdressers that I know has 7 part-time staff and an owner/manager. None want to go full-time because they will come out substantially worse off.

rainyrun

None want to go full-time because they will come out substantially worse off.

It is for this reason that Social welfare needs significant reform in this country!.. Social welfare should never be a better option then fulltime or even part time work!!..I think its shocking that people will try and "opt out" of extra hours or fulltime work because they are better of on the dole. I work in retail and I have come across this all the time.. staff have been offered extra hours, but they wont take them as they are better off claiming the social..
I have seen someone being offered a fulltime job, but refuse to accept it as they would lose their parttime social welfare and would have to pay for child minder( and this person works sundays) when he told me the figures it was clear he WAS definitely better of staying parttime from a financial sense..but I was horrified that this the social welfare system in this country "allowed" this to be an option!! surely social welfare should not be a lifestyle choice, but a last resort!!

skafish

rainyrun wrote: »

It is for this reason that Social welfare needs significant reform in this country!.. Social welfare should never be a better option then fulltime or even part time work!!..I think its shocking that people will try and "opt out" of extra hours or fulltime work because they are better of on the dole. I work in retail and I have come across this all the time.. staff have been offered extra hours, but they wont take them as they are better off claiming the social..
I have seen someone being offered a fulltime job, but refuse to accept it as they would lose their parttime social welfare and would have to pay for child minder( and this person works sundays) when he told me the figures it was clear he WAS definitely better of staying parttime from a financial sense..but I was horrified that this the social welfare system in this country "allowed" this to be an option!! surely social welfare should not be a lifestyle choice, but a last resort!!

I couldn't agree more

Tayla

n97 mini wrote: »

The softly softly approach doesn't really work. The hairdressers that I know has 7 part-time staff and an owner/manager. None want to go full-time because they will come out substantially worse off.

I agree it's abused by some but not by all, some people genuinely don't hae full time job opportunities available to them and now will be hit by this cut.

Thoie

From some simple maths it seems that this will affect people working 3 days a week by less than €20.

Currently:
€188/6 = 31.33 per day. If you're working 3 days and claiming the other 3 days, you get 31.33 x 3 = €94 (+ your normal wages a week)
Future:
€188/5 = €37.6 per day. If you're working 3 days and claiming the other 2 days you'll get 37.6 x 2 = €75.20 (+ your normal wages a week).

Working 2.5 days won't help, as the part time work only allows for full days. The welfare allowance is only available for full days that you're available for work.

rainyrun

Tayla wrote: »

I agree it's abused by some but not by all, some people genuinely don't hae full time job opportunities available to them and now will be hit by this cut.

actually this is whats alarming.. I dont think the people I know are deliberately "abusing" the system, they literally are better of availing of it and thats whats shocking!! they shouldnt be better off.
I do know that some people have had hours cut and I know thats tough..but there is something wrong with a system that provides an incentive for employees to look for less hours or have them refuse to work extra hours.

anymore

rainyrun wrote: »

It is for this reason that Social welfare needs significant reform in this country!.. Social welfare should never be a better option then fulltime or even part time work!!..I think its shocking that people will try and "opt out" of extra hours or fulltime work because they are better of on the dole. I work in retail and I have come across this all the time.. staff have been offered extra hours, but they wont take them as they are better off claiming the social..
I have seen someone being offered a fulltime job, but refuse to accept it as they would lose their parttime social welfare and would have to pay for child minder( and this person works sundays) when he told me the figures it was clear he WAS definitely better of staying parttime from a financial sense..but I was horrified that this the social welfare system in this country "allowed" this to be an option!! surely social welfare should not be a lifestyle choice, but a last resort!!

This apllies also in the transport industry - I have seen a job paying € 500 into the hand turnned down on the gorunds it would mean working for 'only € 200 a week.

strandroad

anymore wrote: »

This apllies also in the transport industry - I have seen a job paying € 500 into the hand turnned down on the gorunds it would mean working for 'only € 200 a week.

This happens all the time. A friend of mine was jobless for a good while, living on the dole with rent supplement etc. No great expenditure and she had a boyfriend so she was doing relatively well. She was offered an admittedly very basic job and she was considering taking it part-time only to keep the half dole as (first) she wouldn't lose and possibly gain on it (second) she said she is quote not used to work anymore and needs to take it slowly unquote.

Godge

n97 mini wrote: »

The softly softly approach doesn't really work. The hairdressers that I know has 7 part-time staff and an owner/manager. None want to go full-time because they will come out substantially worse off.

The practice is rampant in the hair and beauty industry. Why? Nixers.

I know a number of people working in the industry. They work three days a week, claim half social welfare and do a few nixers and they are much better off than if they worked full-time.

Boskowski

Tayla wrote: »

I agree it's abused by some but not by all, some people genuinely don't hae full time job opportunities available to them and now will be hit by this cut.

But in fairness, why 6 days? Why? Why?
I mean I work Monday to Friday, can I claim for Saturday too?

Thoie

Boskowski wrote: »

But in fairness, why 6 days? Why? Why?
I mean I work Monday to Friday, can I claim for Saturday too?

People traditionally worked 6 days a week, with just "the sabbath" off. Not sure when exactly 2 day weekends started, but it was some time between the 1920s and 40s. Unemployment history started around 1927, so it's quite possible that a 6 day week was the norm when it started, and no-one ever got around to changing it :rolleyes:

Part time work is up to and including 3 days a week. As you work 5 days a week you're not eligible

Tayla

rainyrun wrote: »

actually this is whats alarming.. I dont think the people I know are deliberately "abusing" the system, they literally are better of availing of it and thats whats shocking!! they shouldnt be better off.
I do know that some people have had hours cut and I know thats tough..but there is something wrong with a system that provides an incentive for employees to look for less hours or have them refuse to work extra hours.

Yes but the problem I think with a lot of part time jobs is that the hours are spread out over 5 days, so you might be working 20 hours at minimum wages and have to pay transport costs etc. and come out with a lot less money than the dole and not nearly enough to live on.

I think for the system to be changed the government would have to somehow make it more viable for employers to give out part time jobs that were 2 or 3 full days worth of work rather than the way a lot of the part time jobs are scheduled but I don't even know if that's possible.

Boskowski wrote: »

But in fairness, why 6 days? Why? Why?
I mean I work Monday to Friday, can I claim for Saturday too?

It's not like they're getting paid 6 days wages though. If it had always been 5 days for example then the payment would have still crept up to the same amount as the cost of living increased. It just would have meant you were getting more euros per day for the 5 days and then nothing for the other 2. The payment would have still be the same.

malteser

I don't really see how cutting back to five days and including sundays is really incentive for more people to take up full time employment, for most people full time employment isn't an option and if anything this has me thinking of giving up working altogether. not all part time jobs offer full shifts and its difficult to be motivated when you're working for nothing. from my experiences Social Welfare should work more off a system of investigating each situation and deciding on the best course of action, they have some very costly and pointless policies in place

Dan_Solo

While getting people back/into work is vital, what exactly is the benefit to the country if the state has to pay almost as much in welfare for part time workers as it does for those on the dole?

MSVforever

I don't understand the whole system in Ireland.....

People who have worked all their life and became unemployed get Jobseeker's benefit (short-term unemployed up to a year?) which is the same or even less (e.g. no fuel allowance; no council house etc) than somebody who is long term unemployed or has never worked in his/her life and receives Jobseeker allowance (I know it's means tested but come on you know what I mean).....:eek:

Shouldn't Jobseeker benefits increase and Jobseeker allowance decrease (it seems that this is quite the opposite now?)?

anymore

MSVforever wrote: »

I don't understand the whole system in Ireland.....

People who have worked all their life and became unemployed get Jobseeker's benefit (short-term unemployed up to a year?) which is the same or even less (e.g. no fuel allowance; no council house etc) than somebody who is long term unemployed or has never worked in his/her life and receives Jobseeker allowance (I know it's means tested but come on you know what I mean).....:eek:

Shouldn't Jobseeker benefits increase and Jobseeker allowance decrease (it seems that this is quite the opposite now?)?

Once you stay unemployed for long enough you are transformed into one of Ireland's 'National treasures' and henceforth all references to are are made in a hushed and reverential tone. You have attained ' Semi Deity' status. Dali Lama. eat your heart out !

robd

rainyrun wrote: »

actually this is whats alarming.. I dont think the people I know are deliberately "abusing" the system, they literally are better of availing of it and thats whats shocking!! they shouldnt be better off.
I do know that some people have had hours cut and I know thats tough..but there is something wrong with a system that provides an incentive for employees to look for less hours or have them refuse to work extra hours.

Agree 100%. This is a classic dis-incentive.

The cut sounds very IMF based to me. Would be one of the anomalies in the economic system they'd look to get fixed.

ShooterSF

As someone currently in part time work the biggest problem is that means for the week are based on days worked, not hours. This means if I'm offered a 3 hour shift tomorrow I'm no better off working it. Then again last week I did over 30 hours in 3 days including a Sunday and took home a crazy amount of money.
It's a pathetic system and one that I can't blame people for taking advantage of especially if they really are struggling.
A full time position recently came up where I work but nepotism meant I missed out but the only reason I even applied was that I want to start my own part time business too and cant while in receipt of the dole. It definitely wouldn't have paid me better.