Gardaí cancel Operation Freeflow

MrDerp

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1205/traffic.html

Sweet

SandyfordGuy

That is great news, glad to see the back of Operation NoFlow, because simply whenever the Gardai became involved in past years, it made my commute WORSE.

BenShermin

Won't make an ounce of a difference IMO. The last few years all I've seen is Gardaí standing at traffic junctions with their hands in their pockets when doing point duty would actually help ease the congestion at the junctions.

There's probably some quango banning Gardaí from doing point duty when the traffic lights are not broken.

Run_to_da_hills

Hardly needed as there is much traffic on the roads these days compaired to a few years ago.

markpb

BenShermin wrote: »

There's probably some quango banning Gardaí from doing point duty when the traffic lights are not broken.

I heard (so may not be true) they were asked not to do point duty because, unlike an ITS controlled signal, a garda on point duty has no idea of the impact of his/her actions on the junctions around them and can cause problems elsewhere. I assume that it also causes problems because the signals are reporting cars not moving during a green phase which makes it think the road is more congested than it is.

hardCopy

BenShermin wrote: »

Won't make an ounce of a difference IMO. The last few years all I've seen is Gardaí standing at traffic junctions with their hands in their pockets when doing point duty would actually help ease the congestion at the junctions.

There's probably some quango banning Gardaí from doing point duty when the traffic lights are not broken.

I used to love seeing them at the junction of Swords Rd and Collins Ave when I was in DCU. All they had to do was prevent people blocking the yellow box and it knocked at least 15 minutes off my journey each way.

It would probably be simpler to replace them with some kind of retractable flaming pit under the yellow boxes, I'm not too pushed either way.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

I heard (so may not be true) they were asked not to do point duty because, unlike an ITS controlled signal, a garda on point duty has no idea of the impact of his/her actions on the junctions around them and can cause problems elsewhere. I assume that it also causes problems because the signals are reporting cars not moving during a green phase which makes it thing the road is more congested than it is.

There is an element of truth here Markpb,but with previous Freeflow campaigns the major junctions were also manually monitored by the DCC's Control Room.

The real issues here are locations such as the Princes St entry to Arnott's Multi Storey,the Parnell St entrance to the ILAC Multi-Storey,the Jervis St entrance to the Jervis Centre (Anybody see a pattern developing...;) )

What occurs at these two locations has a significant negative impact on the entire City Centre Traffic Flow,which the DCC's SCATS Traffic Signal Control System has great difficulty coping with.

These two locations have been contentious since they first opened their doors for business,but,one assumes that the stringent planning process which had to be engaged with,flagged up these issues and ensured proper arrangements were/are in place to deal with the chaotic fall out......which is the case...is'nt it.....(Ghostly echo from long empty corridor..... )

The actual notion of a "Christmas Freeflow" always amused me,as it was basically a very expensive Public Service (An Garda Siochana) being placed at the disposal of well-connected property developers and assorted commercial entrepreneur's in order to maximise their Christmas earnings potential....The lack of one this year kinda reinforces the end of the Galway-Tent mentality in Ireland.....mind you now I'd like to se an investigation into how and why those Multi-Stories were facilitated to operate with such glaring deficiencies well flagged in advance.....:eek:

bk

hardCopy wrote: »

It would probably be simpler to replace them with some kind of retractable flaming pit under the yellow boxes, I'm not too pushed either way.

Simple solution, time for red light cameras.

I also can't understand why the bus gate isn't enforced by similar cameras.

robd

bk wrote: »

Simple solution, time for red light cameras.

I also can't understand why the bus gate isn't enforced by similar cameras.

Pretty much. The reality is that technology can now to a better job the a Garda on point duty can. This had been debated in previous years. Yes they stopped the yellow box huggers but wreaked havoc past that.

Having yellow box and red light cameras could fix this all year round and bring it much needed income when it's needed. I'm sure private enterprise would cover cost of cameras.

hardCopy

bk wrote: »

Simple solution, time for red light cameras.

I also can't understand why the bus gate isn't enforced by similar cameras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCA8MvedIo

That's how you enforce a bus gate! :cool:

bk

hardCopy wrote: »

That's how you enforce a bus gate! :cool:

While very funny, I'd have to disagree.

Too slow to lower for approaching buses (ideally you want them just speeding through a bus gate) and open to lots of compo claims.

Crazy really having to pay Gardai overtime (or taking them away from more important policing duties), when automated cameras with fines would probably cover their own cost, if not bring in revenue.

mikedragon32

I for one won't miss having a baby garda doing point duty on the Loughlinstown roundabout at the N11/M11. It was the only time of year there was ever a queue at the bloody thing when you come down the M11.

Good riddance.

BostonB

There isn't anything like the traffic there used to be.

bmaxi

Maybe it's also time to get rid of those ridiculous "Garda Traffic Corps" signs from the vehicles. Like that ever existed

corktina

i watched a nice lady Gard in Cork this morning supervising a junction. Didn't do a blind thing despite the blatant abuse of the yellow box.

Buffman

It's ok, with all the new signs with important messages like this we don't need guards on the road at all anymore!:D

Borderfox wrote: »

Seen this on the way in past Whitehall Church (I was stopped in traffic)

hardCopy

bmaxi wrote: »

Maybe it's also time to get rid of those ridiculous "Garda Traffic Corps" signs from the vehicles. Like that ever existed

I'm not sure what you mean, they operate as a separate division in Dublin with their own station in Dublin Castle. I believe it's a different set-up outside Dublin so it may work differently elsewhere.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=110

SandyfordGuy

Buffman wrote: »

It's ok, with all the new signs with important messages like this we don't need guards on the road at all anymore!:D

I've seen a similar one in the city center before saying:

Garda Message:
Watch Out Other Road Users About!

seamus

Funny, I saw a Garda screwing about with traffic in Terenure village yesterday morning, I assumed this was back on.

Interesting to note that usually when "Freeflow" starts, traffic instantly becomes a nightmare. The last two mornings, when freeflow would normally have started, traffic has been lighter and faster than I've seen it in weeks, even though they've been the coldest mornings so far.

Cookie_Monster

seamus wrote: »

Interesting to note that usually when "Freeflow" starts, traffic instantly becomes a nightmare.

+1

The bus to college always instantly took at least an extra 15-20 mins on average once this stupid plan started.
I've never actually seen a Garda do anything when at the junctions, they just stand there and look disinterested, failing even to pull up yellow box blockers.

Dirk Gently

Delighted operation standstill isn't happening this year. Recession isn't all bad it seems.

bmaxi

hardCopy wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean, they operate as a separate division in Dublin with their own station in Dublin Castle. I believe it's a different set-up outside Dublin so it may work differently elsewhere.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=110

I haven't lived in Dublin for a few years now but enforcement of traffic law where I live is virtually non existent. It's a joke when you see a Garda car marked "Garda Traffic Corps", in a line of traffic behind a car making an illegal right turn at a notorious junction, then driving off in the opposite direction. It's a joke to see a Garda walk past cars parked in a bus stop while the bus is stopped in the middle of the road holding up traffic. It's a joke to see a car marked "Garda Traffic Corps", park in a box junction while the driver uses an ATM.
All of the incidents happened in Gorey, Co. Wexford and only this morning we had the Chief Superintendent in Wexford on radio, preaching to us all and telling us to be good little boys and girls when driving. Bigger hypocrites than the politicians.

markpb

bmaxi wrote: »

I haven't lived in Dublin for a few years now but enforcement of traffic law where I live is virtually non existent.

Several years ago I accosted a trainee Bangarda at N1/Collins Avenue and asked her why she was standing beside a bus lane absolutely full of cars. She said that the council hadn't erected the correct signs so there was nothing she could do (those signs had been erected for almost two years at that stage).

I came into work, posted here, a guy who worked in DCC-ITS saw my post, contacted the RD and by the time I left work the correct signs had been posted. The Gardai, whose only job that Christmas was to enforce the traffic laws, were quite happy to sit back and do nothing.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

There isn't anything like the traffic there used to be.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Hardly needed as there is much traffic on the roads these days compaired to a few years ago.

Have you seen central Dublin rush hour traffic recently?

BostonB

Some random photo is meaningless. You get the odd hold up when something is on in town, a road closed, a big concerts, a match, a protest. Then it all backs up. Thats doesn't mean traffic isn't greatly reduced in the last few months.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Some random photo is meaningless. You get the odd hold up when something is on in town, a road closed, a big concerts, a match, a protest. Then it all backs up. Thats doesn't mean traffic isn't greatly reduced in the last few months.

Less or more meaningless as random posters making very general statements on an internet board?

Traffic is at gridlock or near gridlock like conditions around Churchstreet / Queen Street / North King Street / Phibsborough nearly every day and at least a few days a week. With and without events.

SandyfordGuy

Last night was particularly bad around the city centre, and the areas just north of the city centre, easily the worst I've seen it for several months

stampydmonkey

One of my mates is a guard. He tells me every Christmas that he hates Operation Freeflow. So when he's sent out, he purposely makes a balls of directing the traffic so he won't get sent out again...sums it up really!

monument

monument wrote: »

Have you seen central Dublin rush hour traffic recently?

During the Summer, I used to go through the city to dodge the M50 toll, as traffic was light at the times I travelled, it made sense.

Not any more, it does appear to have increased in recent months, can't put my finger on what it is, fewer busses?? more toll dodgers?? etc

BostonB

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Last night was particularly bad around the city centre, and the areas just north of the city centre, easily the worst I've seen it for several months

Kildare st was blocked (protest) and everything backed up due to that. There may have been some accident else where also.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Kildare st was blocked (protest) and everything backed up due to that. There may have been some accident else where also.

One street in the south city centre is blocked and this is blame for traffic all around, including the north side snarling up?

EDIT: Also, the only traffic from the north which legally feeds into Kildare Street at rush hour is buses and taxis (and the odd minister's car)?

BostonB

monument wrote: »

One street in the south city centre is blocked and this is blame for traffic all around, including the north side snarling up?

Its a small city, full of one way systems, narrow roads, lots of lights. Some roads are critical for throughout. Blocking them off can have repercussions far away. As often theres no way around a problem. Is that not traffic 101?

If you listen to Dublin City 102.3 its often very noticeable when a problem somewhere causes a problem somewhere else. Last night they said the problem on kildare st had traffic backed up to the canal at lesson street. They also mentioned some related issue northside, but I wasn't paying attention as it didn't effect me.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

Less or more meaningless as random posters making very general statements on an internet board?

Traffic is at gridlock or near gridlock like conditions around Churchstreet / Queen Street / North King Street / Phibsborough nearly every day and at least a few days a week. With and without events.

Meaningless because your photo had no context.

I come through Queen Street / North King Street on a regular basis and its only jammed at height of peak only. If you are slightly either side of it, you get through no problem. I came through it this am at 9am and had no problem at all.

Considering there can be a queues through Phibsborough at anytime, weekends or off peak it suggests its the junction, with multiple lights in all approaches too and from it, and a number of pedestrian lights on the same roads that causes the problems. Not simply the traffic volume.

Its been like that for decades and all they done is add more lights in the area. Phibsborough is somewhere I've always gone around rather than head butted my way through.

Bodes well for getting to the New Childrens hospital in a hurry.

AlekSmart

BostonB wrote: »

Meaningless because your photo had no context.

I come through Queen Street / North King Street on a regular basis and its only jammed at height of peak only. If you are slightly either side of it, you get through no problem. I came through it this am at 9am and had no problem at all.

Considering there can be a queues through Phibsborough at anytime, weekends or off peak it suggests its the junction, with multiple lights in all approaches too and from it, and a number of pedestrian lights on the same roads that causes the problems. Not simply the traffic volume.

Its been like that for decades and all they done is add more lights in the area. Phibsborough is somewhere I've always gone around rather than head butted my way through.

Bodes well for getting to the New Childrens hospital in a hurry.

O lot of this torture is entirely self-imposed by sheer Godawful road placement and a noticable lack of reading the road ahead..ie: forward planning.

Planning for a turn ahead,for example,and executing the manouvere corectly can generally allow for both the manouvere AND maintenance of traffic flow together.

However far too many folks appear to consider it necessary to have a full State Occasion to accompany their particular manouvere.

One such occasion is the Right Turn which invariably involves a Driver moving well over to the left in order to "get a swing at it"...acceptable perhaps if you have a "Long-Load" plate on your trailer,but not really necesssary in a Nissan Micra.

Also when positioning for a static right turn many people will position their car to halt following traffic and prevent (Legal) overtaking on the inside lane.

Added to this is the Left Turner who will adopt the mirror image of the above,ie: move to the far right before lurching left.

It's a very noticable trait to those who have had lane discipline drilled into them,or who have returned from spells in the somewhat more civilized environs of Northern Europe or (Heaven Forbid :eek:) the UK !!!

I believe it's a Socio-Religious issue which reinforces our national trait of driving as we vote.....Middle of the Road

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Its a small city, full of one way systems, narrow roads, lots of lights. Some roads are critical for throughout. Blocking them off can have repercussions far away. As often theres no way around a problem. Is that not traffic 101?

Apparently every road in Dublin is a critical thoroughfare. Bar buses and the cars from the very near by car park who is or more importantly how many are rightly using Kildare Street as a thoroughfare? And why can't they divert around it? And car park traffic can't really be classed as using it as a thoroughfare, it's more like access?

And every week -- if a few times most weeks -- there's a match / crash / event / protest, so that's the norm.

BostonB wrote: »

If you listen to Dublin City 102.3 its often very noticeable when a problem somewhere causes a problem somewhere else. Last night they said the problem on kildare st had traffic backed up to the canal at lesson street. They also mentioned some related issue northside, but I wasn't paying attention as it didn't effect me.

A sure sign of a heavily congested city.

BostonB wrote: »

Meaningless because your photo had no context.

More or less context than your first post?

BostonB wrote: »

I come through Queen Street / North King Street on a regular basis and its only jammed at height of peak only. If you are slightly either side of it, you get through no problem. I came through it this am at 9am and had no problem at all.

I walk and cycle by and around there at evening peak quite a lot. Sure, some days there's not much of a problem, but in recent months it has gotten far worse. Regularly at gridlock.

BostonB wrote: »

Considering there can be a queues through Phibsborough at anytime, weekends or off peak it suggests its the junction, with multiple lights in all approaches too and from it, and a number of pedestrian lights on the same roads that causes the problems. Not simply the traffic volume.

But mainly by the traffic volumes. There's quite a few busy roads feeding into the junction.

While I'm far from against bus lanes the logic in putting them in while cutting services just does not cut it for me. Improving northbound services at the expense of southbound ones also seems strange... but maybe there's something to it?

BostonB wrote: »

Its been like that for decades and all they done is add more lights in the area. Phibsborough is somewhere I've always gone around rather than head butted my way through.

Which lights are not needed?

BostonB wrote: »

Bodes well for getting to the New Childrens hospital in a hurry.

Indeed. While I have been generally supportive of the project, doing it without Metro North, Dart extensions and BXD combined which would have led to less traffic and/or allowed restrictions which could have hindered commuting traffic but helped that to the hospital.

BostonB

monument wrote: »

Apparently every road in Dublin is a critical thoroughfare. Bar buses and the cars from the very near by car park who is or more importantly how many are rightly using Kildare Street as a thoroughfare? And why can't they divert around it? And car park traffic can't really be classed as using it as a thoroughfare, it's more like access?.

You don't seem to know Dublin very well. Traffic into the car park is minimal at best. Its the through traffic which is bulk of it. Its one way system and it feeds all the traffic feeding into St Stephens green down dawson street, the only major exit being kildare st or nassau street. If Kildare is blocked, then it backs up to nassau which then blocks the only exist for all the traffic coming around college green, and stephens green. college green backs up out to pearse and D'Olier Street and back onto the quays very quickly. If you caught in the stephens green loops you've got to go the whole way around to get off it. All it takes is one or two buses or cars to block a yellow box in conjunction with that and it has a major effect.

Traffic used to be so bad, rush hour extended back as far as 8 or 9pm. Its nothing like that these days. It lasts for a much shorter time morning and evening. Personally my commuting time is greatly reduced these days from what it was a year ago, and vastly better than it was 10 years ago. If people think its as bad as ever, I have to assume they are travelling at peak times and picking poor routes. IMO the consensus is traffic is lighter overall.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

You don't seem to know Dublin very well. Traffic into the car park is minimal at best.

You're trying to contend traffic related to car parks around the Grafton Street area is "minimal at best" but I'm the one who doesn't know Dublin traffic well... err... ok...

BostonB wrote: »

Its the through traffic which is bulk of it. Its one way system and it feeds all the traffic feeding into St Stephens green down dawson street, the only major exit being kildare st or nassau street. If Kildare is blocked, then it backs up to nassau which then blocks the only exist for all the traffic coming around college green, and stephens green. college green backs up out to pearse and D'Olier Street and back onto the quays very quickly. If you caught in the stephens green loops you've got to go the whole way around to get off it. All it takes is one or two buses or cars to block a yellow box in conjunction with that and it has a major effect.

Again: Where is this all through traffic using Kildare Street or even Dawson Street as a thoroughfare coming from? And where is it going to?

This is an honest question. Try dealing with the point rather than attacking the poster, thanks.

BostonB wrote: »

Traffic used to be so bad, rush hour extended back as far as 8 or 9pm. Its nothing like that these days. It lasts for a much shorter time morning and evening. Personally my commuting time is greatly reduced these days from what it was a year ago, and vastly better than it was 10 years ago. If people think its as bad as ever, I have to assume they are travelling at peak times and picking poor routes. IMO the consensus is traffic is lighter overall.

Unlike I can agree that the consensus is traffic is lighter overall since a year or two ago, your other post mentioned the last few months.

Peak times!? Yes, it's easy to assume that many people travel at these times.

One person's route or a few people's route cannot be an indication of how bad or good traffic is overall. One route can be good while the rest is crawling or one person could be using rat runs etc (not accusing you of this). Yes, I'm also talking about an area mainly around where I live, but it's many routes and roads in all sorts of directions. And the same can be seen elsewhere in the city.

L1011

The entire effect of Freeflow on my life was a junior Guard pulling me for "driving in a bus lane" because he hadn't checked his watch, and the buslane wasn't in operation when I was in it... won't miss it despite driving through the city more than most!

BostonB

Deleted.

You know this multi quoting is just keeping this off topic argument going. So I'm going to delete my reply.

Freeflow. We won't miss it. End of.

monument

BostonB wrote: »

Deleted.

You know this multi quoting is just keeping this off topic argument going. So I'm going to delete my reply.

Freeflow. We won't miss it. End of.

Ok, sorry for multi quoting did not realise there was something wrong with it. So, here's the part I was really interested in...

Again: Where is this all through traffic using Kildare Street or even Dawson Street as a thoroughfare coming from? And where is it going to?

This is an honest question. Try dealing with the point rather than attacking the poster, thanks.

bmaxi

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1212/breaking14.html


Just in case further proof was needed of the incompetence of these guys.
I'd reckon their counterparts are still pissing themselves.