Retail managing - finding it impossible to keep everyone happy

LegacyUser

Hi,

Just looking for other peoples opinions, especially those working in retail management. Recently employed as a store manager for an independently owned department chain. In my interview the owner stated he wanted someone to manage one of his larger stores that he feels is under performing and feels the staff aren't pulling their weight. He wanted someone that would go in and crack the whip, show them who's boss and really beat them with a stick and increase sales. There has been no manager there for awhile and they've been running the store themselves basically..most the staff have been there a long time and are really experienced. One of them should have got the job in my opinion but he doesn't rate them.

Well I got the job with the experience I had and I was confident I could turn it around, I still am. But the reality of the job is different, they are badly understaffed to say the least and the staff really are working hard and not lazy at all. I have to use the floor managers to get to grips with the systems and procedures they use, so staying on terms with them is important. I've been slowly weaning all their duties of them such as roistering etc that they have been doing for the last few months. Mean while I have to be seen to stamp my authority, not getting friendly with them and basically be seen flogging them.

Its a tough balancing act...I'm used to managing through communication and trusting people to do their jobs..anyone have any opinions on how to turn into a "b*****d" of a manager overnight?????

Regards in advance for any opinions at all.

Bandana boy

There are many ways to manage staff.
You need to find the one that suits your personality and is effective with staff at this level.
It is not necessarily a hard ass approach.

There is Tons of literature on managing staff on amazon and its ilk ,I would shop around for a good book on the topic

LegacyUser

D'ont become a b*******d manager. You will make the staff hate you and they will kick up - going sick ect.
At the moment you know they are a good bunch on the whole. I would watch them all for a week and keep note on who is doing what. After this I would have a meeting with each one and see what suggestions they make. Making a few minor changes could help things get better for everyone.
For example you may find a better way of doing a task, or you could find that one person would find working early/later better or some one wants more hours.
Are you one of these people who give orders or are you willing to get stuck in yourself on tills ect.
One the best boss I ever had would do any task in the place, was willing to listen to staff and give encouragement to any one who needed it. They got the best out of staff.
I would encourage the staff to come to you rather than have them bitch behind your back.
Some times you need to work smarter not harder.

Mrs OBumble

You don't need to manage the staff as such - it sounds like they're pretty self managing.

But you do need to manage the owner's expectations, and the team's sales performance. 'Cos it really doesn't matter how hard they work if they're not actually making the sales.

Your boss has an opinion about how to do this. Do you have alternative options that you can present to him/her, along with sound reasoning about why they will work better? For example, what's the level of sick leave and union membership like, compared to other similar businesses? If you start being Mr Nasty, these will go up - that's a metric you can use to back up your arguments.

Gmol

Agree with JustMary they seem like a team that are managing fine. Don't think cracking the wip is the answer in this case if they are working as well as you say. If they are understaffed learn their jobs and help out. Explain to your boss your policy of learning every job and seeing how a possible increase in staff can improve performance and profit. In my experience staff can only work at 'turbo level' for certain amounts of time before burnout occurs

krd

balancing man wrote: »

Hi,
In my interview the owner stated he wanted someone to manage one of his larger stores that he feels is under performing and feels the staff aren't pulling their weight.

Retail, is doing really badly everywhere. People do not have money. Shops are shutting down all around me. It's not because the staff are not making an effort. It's because there is no money, and there is less and less money as time goes by.

He wanted someone that would go in and crack the whip, show them who's boss and really beat them with a stick and increase sales.

Right, sales staff, who feel bullied and depressed are going to perform better. That's sound like fat bollicky bully man thinking.

"Crack the whip".......he thinks these people are animals, like donkeys to be whipped.

There has been no manager there for awhile and they've been running the store themselves basically..most the staff have been there a long time and are really experienced.

One of them should have got the job in my opinion but he doesn't rate them.

Of course he doesn't rate them. As far as he's concerned they're dirty animal people that belong to him. He brings you in from the outside because he hates them. He probably feels deeply embittered that he has to pay them for their work.

Well I got the job with the experience I had and I was confident I could turn it around, I still am. But the reality of the job is different, they are badly understaffed to say the least and the staff really are working hard and not lazy at all. I have to use the floor managers to get to grips with the systems and procedures they use, so staying on terms with them is important. I've been slowly weaning all their duties of them such as roistering etc that they have been doing for the last few months. Mean while I have to be seen to stamp my authority, not getting friendly with them and basically be seen flogging them.

Its a tough balancing act...I'm used to managing through communication and trusting people to do their jobs..anyone have any opinions on how to turn into a "b*****d" of a manager overnight?????

Regards in advance for any opinions at all.

Essentially, you're looking for advice on how to bully people. You want to know how to lower morale - fat bollicky paddy men think it's the only way to run a business.

Be erratic: Throw strops over little details. Ask someone to do something, and when they do it, get really angry and tell them they did it the opposite of the way you asked them to (even, actually, especially if they've done the job properly).

Use your power to humiliate people. Constantly criticise their work. Tell them they're not trying hard enough.

Find someone vulnerable, a pick on them in front of others. Take them into your office and reduce them to tears so the others can see.

Find someone who is working really hard, and is straight, and sack them. This will put the fear of God in the others.

Get everyone on disciplinaries for trivial matters. Hijack people. bring them into your little office and make vague accusations about other people complaining about them. This will create paranoia, and will make everyone feel more isolated and suspicious of everyone else. When you see people are on the verge of tears keep pushing. If you see anyone who looks happy or content at work, target them, and work on them until they are miserable.

Get a little helper. Enlist a sneak. Give them some vague promise of promotion if they "help you out". They'll help you set people up.

Cause chaos. Create an air of tension and bad feeling. Get everyone fighting with each other.

But most importantly, try to remember your experiences at school. What you're trying to create is the atmosphere of the school yard.

Of course, none of this is going to increase sales. Depressed people don't make good sales people.

I really hope the owner of this business gets cancer. Something that will take a few months eating through his fat pig body. I'd like to be there to see them throw that dirty animal into the ground.

Bullying people, will not make them more productive. It will just make their lives awful. Kate Fitzgerald, was possibly driven to suicide by the bullying in her workplace. That's the true cost.

In my experience, people are only really productive when they're well managed and not bullied. Workplaces where there is bullying are usually embarrassing chaotic paddy whack messes.

Bullying people at work is possibly one of the most immoral things you can do in life. I don't even regard the people who bullied me at work as humans any more. I think they're worse than animals. Dirty bollicky animals.

Bandana boy

krd wrote: »

Cry for help or at least some therapy

There are plenty of circumstances when a firmer hand is what is needed to get performance from staff.
There are managers who quite competently use a big stick approach to motivation.
The key is fairness.

But if this is not your style -trying to change to it will fail.
You will likely be inconsistent and staff will deem your behaviour unfair and it will often demotivate staff.

Look inward at your own talents ,you need to improve results -your manager will not care how you do it.Find a management style you’re comfortable and consistent with.

krd

Aha, Bandana Boy,

Very clever with the faked quote from me. "Cry for help or at least some therapy", a sneering euphemism for "cracked in the head". I can imagine the big dirty smirk on your bockety potato shaped paddy whack head as you typed that one in.

Your little twist screams volumes about the kind of person you are.

There isn't anything funny about bullying. There isn't anything funny about someone having their mental health destroyed by bullying. There isn't anything funny about someone having mental health problems. Thinking there's something funny in it, is like having a laugh at someone being tortured.

What were you like at school? When you saw someone being tormented did you join in "just for a bit of a laugh"? Do you swell with pride remembering the glory of it. Or do you still do it? Do you shout "gwan ya looper" at complete strangers walking down the street? Do you harass "odd balls" in pubs? Do you spread rumours about people you don't like being "cracked in the head".

I have seen friends hospitalised after experiencing bullying at work. I have nightmarish experiences of it myself. I've heard stories from people who've experienced work place bullying and have never recovered from it.

Kate Fitzgerald was probably bullied into depression, and then suicide.

The depressions, alcoholism, and suicides are not coming out of some vacuum. People are not psychologically spontaneously combusting.

About one person a day is drinking themselves to death, about twice what it was ten years ago. And it's the same with suicide. And god knows how many tens of thousands, or does it go into hundreds of thousands of people who are on medication, or doping themselves, because of the abuse they've experienced at work.

There is no excuse for it. Employing someone does not give you the right to torment them. Just as it doesn't give you the right to give them a savage beating, as if they were slaves and you're a plantation owner in the old south.

Bandana boy wrote: »

There are plenty of circumstances when a firmer hand is what is needed to get performance from staff.

There's a simple answer to this. If you have staff who slack off, who are lazy, and won't work unless they have someone looking over their shoulder. Then you have the wrong staff. You'd be surprised - lazy staff are easy to get rid of. Usually when they're confronted they'll hop off like head lice to be parasites somewhere else.

You can't physically give someone a box in the jaw at work, to "show them who's boss". Why do people think giving someone a psychological box in the jaw is any different? Because it doesn't leave any visible bruises. I've had experiences where it felt just like getting a punch in the stomach. And where the bolloxy person who did it to me knew exactly what they were doing and what it would feel like that. I worked for someone who'd regularly have people off in the toilets vomiting after one of his dirty little hijackings. I may as well tell you what he did. He'd approach someone and tell them he wanted to have a meeting - big smile on his face. He'd tell them how well they were doing. He'd give them impression that the meeting was going to be about a pay rise. The person would go to the meeting, and I saw him do this to very hard working, conscientious people - the door would be shut, and the bollox would tear into them. Telling them they were doing a terrible job, and they were hearing constant complaints about them. The shock would be so bad for many people, they'd leave the meeting an go vomit in the toilets. And a good few people would just walk out straight away. Human resources couldn't figure out what was going on.

That manager eventually got the sack, for a combination of horrendous incompetence, (accusations of bullying and sexual harassment were a part of it - but mainly because he screwed up the business). He was atrocious. He'd promote the laziest and stupidest people to run teams - and virtually single handedly ran the company into the ground. The only people who have a good word to say about him are the worthless turnips he over-promoted.

There are managers who quite competently use a big stick approach to motivation.

They might feel they do. I have never seen it work myself. I have never seen it work. I have never seen it work. It's the hallmark of someone who isn't in control. Who doesn't know what they're doing. Who thinks they're in a school yard. Who models their managerial style on the worst teacher they had in primary school. An eejit.

The key is fairness.

Ah yes, but what is fair. It's fair to bully one kind of person - but not another kind. And that's what I've witnessed in places where there has been bad bullying. It always comes down to the petty likes and dislikes of the bully. It's always personal. There's always a little craziness to it. It can be over the pettiest things, like jealously, or personal insecurity. There's always a bockety madness to it - and that's one of the most stressful things about it - trying to second guess the nuttiness of the bully.

The worst managers - they turn a blind eye to the lazy and incompetent people they like. And give all the crap to the people they don't like.

But if this is not your style -trying to change to it will fail.
You will likely be inconsistent and staff will deem your behaviour unfair and it will often demotivate staff.

If you use "the big stick", of course they're going to be demoralised. Jesus, only an eejit would think knocking someone around is going to energise and motivate them. You'd really have to be an idiot to think so.

Look inward at your own talents ,you need to improve results -your manager will not care how you do it.Find a management style you’re comfortable and consistent with.

You don't look inward - you don't search for the hero inside yourself - just open your eyes, use cop on an common sense. If you have an owner who wants you to raise sales by bullying staff - leave. You're working for someone who is stupid. And a bit scummy. And don't be surprised if they turn that scumminess on you - because they will

And the reason this country has been destroyed is because of particular noxious brand of Irish paddy whack stupidity and evil. And many more businesses will fail for this reason. God knows how many lives will be destroyed.

Bandana boy

krd wrote: »

Not getting the point

Firm Management style does not equal bullying.

Successful managers look at their own strengths(look within) and build up a means of management.

For some that is a cold no-nonsense ,metric driven ,hierarchical approach.
X = Success ,y = failure and failure means the door

For others it can be a collaborative part of the team approach helping your staff to meet their targets.

and lots of other means and variations in between.

It is my experience that trying to mimic a style that does not suit you ,does not work.
Find a style that sits well with your own principles and behaviours as the worst behaviour you can get from a manager is inconsistency.

krd

Bandana boy wrote: »

Firm Management style does not equal bullying.

And most people, who excuse bullying, excuse it as "Firm Management".

It just isn't.

And people are getting away with murder with that excuse...literally getting away with murder.

Retail, is possibly the toughest business to be in at the moment. It wasn't a few years ago....it very definitely is now. For anyone to survive in it, it's going to take a lot of work, creativity and luck. If people are not coming into the shop to buy, you can flay your staff alive all you like, it's not going to work. It's like making human sacrifices to the volcano god. Superstition.

Bandana boy

If "most people who excuse bullying" call it picking daisy's ,it does not make it so.

Nobody is arguing with you that bullying is bad, I am an advocate against bullying in the work place.

But your manager telling you that your work is not satisfactory and needs to improve ,is not bullying.
If he tells it to you straight and emphasizes that there are consequences if it does not improve still does not equal bullying.


Also I am not fake quoting you ,I am paraphrasing the wall of text.

krd

Hey, Bandana boy.

The original question. And don't back peddle.

balancing man wrote: »

.anyone have any opinions on how to turn into a "b*****d" of a manager overnight?????

That's someone looking for advice on how to bully.

Bandana boy wrote: »

Nobody is arguing with you that bullying is bad, I am an advocate against bullying in the work place.

Really

If "most people who excuse bullying" call it picking daisy's ,it does not make it so.

Come on. No dirty bollicky man or woman is going to admit to being a bully. They were all being "firm but fair". Just lighting the fire under someone. "Keeping them on their toes". "cracking the whip". "showing them who's boss". "if you don't beat them, they won't pick the cotton". "it's for their own good". "It hurts me more than it does them"

But your manager telling you that your work is not satisfactory and needs to improve ,is not bullying.
If he tells it to you straight and emphasizes that there are consequences if it does not improve still does not equal bullying.

That's not what we're talking about here. The op asked how to be a B*******D manager overnight. No one ever thinks of anyone who's "fair and reasonable" as a B********D.

Also I am not fake quoting you ,I am paraphrasing the wall of text.

Oh......Oh......can I play that game too?

I like to pay homeless men to give me oral pleasure

Really?

Yes.And I like to take them home, get them doped on cheap cider and sleeping pills. Then I cover them in lidl margarine - and turn them into a human slide

You don't?

Oh, yes I do.

That's a bit disgusting.

Shudup ....it's me own business.

nlgbbbblth

JustMary wrote: »

YFor example, what's the level of sick leave and union membership like, compared to other similar businesses?

Union membership should not be seen as a negative thing.

Bandana boy

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Union membership should not be seen as a negative thing.

in 1980 65% of private sector jobs were in a union
now its <5%
Why
Because all those companies went under and closed

If you are invested in the continued success of your company union membership is a very bad thing

Mrs OBumble

Bandana boy wrote: »

in 1980 65% of private sector jobs were in a union
now its <5%
Why
Because all those companies went under and closed

If you're going to make claims like that, please back them up with a link to a reputable research source.
/moderation.


I suspect that you'll find it's more to do with the Celtic tiger and the influx of non-unionised American multi-nationals, than with what happened to the local businesses ... but that's only a suspicion.


Personally, I never said that union membership was a good or bad thing, just that it's an indicator of staff unhappiness.

I actually believe that a union is a useful thing to have around, in larger organisations anyway, because a delegate can say things to an employee that their manager cannot (eg "you're being a dick, pull your head in")

borderlinemeath

balancing man wrote: »

Hi,

Just looking for other peoples opinions, especially those working in retail management. Recently employed as a store manager for an independently owned department chain. In my interview the owner stated he wanted someone to manage one of his larger stores that he feels is under performing and feels the staff aren't pulling their weight. He wanted someone that would go in and crack the whip, show them who's boss and really beat them with a stick and increase sales. There has been no manager there for awhile and they've been running the store themselves basically..most the staff have been there a long time and are really experienced. One of them should have got the job in my opinion but he doesn't rate them.

Well I got the job with the experience I had and I was confident I could turn it around, I still am. But the reality of the job is different, they are badly understaffed to say the least and the staff really are working hard and not lazy at all. I have to use the floor managers to get to grips with the systems and procedures they use, so staying on terms with them is important. I've been slowly weaning all their duties of them such as roistering etc that they have been doing for the last few months. Mean while I have to be seen to stamp my authority, not getting friendly with them and basically be seen flogging them.

Its a tough balancing act...I'm used to managing through communication and trusting people to do their jobs..anyone have any opinions on how to turn into a "b*****d" of a manager overnight?????

Regards in advance for any opinions at all.

If it were me - the person I would want to keep happy would be the boss paying the wages. How does he know the staff are underperforming? Is the store suffering moreso than others? Has there been a noted lack of productivity? Or are sales just so bad he assumes that there is no motivation to make targets?

If you can see for yourself that the staff are hard working then you need to speak to your boss and ask him to relook at expectations. If you consider the store to be inadequately staffed then address this also, if staff are stretched with tasking then customer service and sales will no doubt suffer. The only thing I would be mindful of is the current climate, and it may be the case that even with extra staff/hours the sales will not increase.

I don't think turning into a b**t**d boss is going to help you in this situation. Unless there are staff that really do need a kick up the ass (or out the door) then you could end up just making the atmosphere incredibly bad and demotivate the staff further.

What type of product is it? Essential/luxury? Depending on your market, things may not improve saleswise for the foreseeable future.

krd

JustMary wrote: »

If you're going to make claims like that, please back them up with a link to a reputable research source.
/moderation.

I looked up some figures and I think he's pretty close. There's very little unionisation left in the private sector. Whereas virtually everyone in the public sector is unionised.

I suspect that you'll find it's more to do with the Celtic tiger and the influx of non-unionised American multi-nationals, than with what happened to the local businesses ... but that's only a suspicion.

I don't think unions had any interests in unionising those firms.

Personally, I never said that union membership was a good or bad thing, just that it's an indicator of staff unhappiness.

If it's done well, it's really good for both employers and employees.

I actually believe that a union is a useful thing to have around, in larger organisations anyway, because a delegate can say things to an employee that their manager cannot (eg "you're being a dick, pull your head in")

That works great in Germany. Where most companies are unionised - and even there are laws that give unions seats on company boards.

I've heard lots of different complaints about unions in Ireland. Some outrageous stories. And I believe some people have gotten involved in unions as a way "to get ahead in life" ...and are a even little more right-wing than the small firms association.

But it can really work. My mother was teaching. And she put up with a lot of crap from her "boss" for a few years. Her boss eventually tried to get her fired. My mother got her union involved. They did an investigation with the department of education. And they found my mothers boss to have serious problems and forced her to resign on health grounds. (without going into it, she had serious problems). Now, had that been a private company, without a union, my mother would have been fired - even though she was doing a good job. And her manager, her "big boss man", who was seriously dysfunctional, would have kept their job.

One reason German companies are so solid, is the unions do have a dialogue over the competency of managers. In Ireland, once a lunatic gets on the ladder, there's nearly nothing to stop them.

Mrs OBumble

krd wrote: »

I looked up some figures and I think he's pretty close. There's very little unionisation left in the private sector. Whereas virtually everyone in the public sector is unionised.

...

I don't think unions had any interests in unionising those firms.

Yes, but is it because the "old" unionised firms went broke, or because the nature of companies operating in Ireland changed dramatically? I think the latter ... can't prove it though.

LegacyUser

Hi again, Op here..

Thanks for the wide range of opinions, much appreciate and all very interesting. I've stuck with my usual management style but with a bit more direction to the staff till I feel everyone is pulling in the direction I want. Don't really have it in me to be a bully, not the way I work...big believer in respect, communication and direction and to be honest everyone has responded well and are trying hard to impress...sales are up day on day and exceeding all targets so far...this should keep the big boss happy and away from demanding me to take out the whip.

Thanks again for the interesting debate..

Balancing man

Bandana boy

JustMary wrote: »

Yes, but is it because the "old" unionised firms went broke, or because the nature of companies operating in Ireland changed dramatically? I think the latter ... can't prove it though.

Well at least a couple of high profile ones did.

Gateaux was all union related -the union had got to the point were you made a top layer of a cake or a bottom but not both

Jacobs had massive union problems and could no longer stay competitive -jobs went to the UK


Waterford crystal's problems were largely union related

Guinness basically pulled out of Ireland to break the union
Once the ten years had lapsed to get around redundancy laws they are back investing in Ireland but no union this time.If it wasn't for branding reasons to be in Ireland those jobs would never have come back but they are far lower paid than they were before.Union pushed so hard that you had truck drivers in the 80s earning more than doctors

krd

JustMary wrote: »

Yes, but is it because the "old" unionised firms went broke, or because the nature of companies operating in Ireland changed dramatically? I think the latter ... can't prove it though.

You have to remember, during the 80s, many old companies in Ireland, that had been going for a very long time, were dropping like flies. They were dropping like flies for a host of complicated reasons. They weren't simply run into the ground by militant unions. There were a few instances where that did happen. But many companies were simply managed into the ground.

When the American companies came to Ireland they were interested in not having unions. Simply because unions generally mean higher labour costs. From my impression, Irish unions were completely uninterested in organising these workplaces. And it's the impression many people have - that Irish unions are only interested in the public sector and semi-state, and to hell with everyone else.

The wealthiest states in the US are the ones that are the most unionised. The poorest states are the ones with the weakest labour laws. Weaker labour laws, mean poorer education, poorer health, and lower productivity. And critically lower purchasing power - so over all their economies are very weak. You may have a few JR Ewings, but there is a lack of economic activity and opportunity to create the wealth that exists in the wealthier states.

In ten, fifteen or twenty years from now, wages in China, will be on a par with wages here. The imbalances won't be there as they were.

krd

Bandana boy wrote: »

Waterford crystal's problems were largely union related

The management of Waterford Crystal, once as part of a restructuring, laid off most of their master blowers (because they were cheaper to lay off than master cutters). Then the master cutters were left twiddling their thumbs because there weren't enough blowers to supply them with glass to cut. The result being they had to hire back many of the blowers they'd made redundant.

Guinness basically pulled out of Ireland to break the union Once the ten years had lapsed to get around redundancy laws they are back investing in Ireland but no union this time.

I don't know where you get that story. I as far as I am aware, at no time have Guinness's shut down production at St. James Gate.

If it wasn't for branding reasons to be in Ireland those jobs would never have come back but they are far lower paid than they were before.

Yeah, and they're not brave enough to move production to China. They're not sure about people being comfortable drinking Guiness with high levels of mercury and other toxins.

Union pushed so hard that you had truck drivers in the 80s earning more than doctors

And doctors were dodging tax so hard, if you believed the official figures, doctors were earning less than primary school teachers.

In truth, I think a lot of the older businesses failed because in the end they were run like a version of Father Ted set inside a factory.