Budget 2012

iRooter

Whats going to happen in the Budget 2012 ?

BornToKill

We'll know shortly.

AnamGlas

Chances are the commoner will get the shítty end of the stick once again, and those at the top will remain relatively unaffected.

liammur

iRooter wrote: »

Whats going to happen in the Budget 2012 ?

€3.8 bln of austerity. What part of this the media don't understand is beyond me.

ted.

richwill get richer, and the poor will get poorer..

i honestly dont know how im going to survive. as im college and broke enough as it is!

Slydice

The budget will be announced tomorrow and on tuesday. You'll know for certain then. The part of the budget with the highest chance of happening is that VAT will go up 2% to 23% as that has been pretty much verified by the government already. Next highest chance of rising tax will be tax on booze, cigarettes and petrol I think.

hmmm

Aside from anything else, I hope that they don't disguise "cuts" as sneaky tax increases.

For example, charging people for waste disposal is not a "saving", but a new tax. "Cutbacks" in health spending should involve getting rid of some of the surplus administrators, not tacking on an extra charge for private beds.

mrgaa1

cut the welfare payments by at least 25% - there is work out there but people do not want to look for it as they are too comfortable on the dole Q.
Cut all public pay by 5% for all those above 60,000, 10 % for all those above 85,000 and 25% for all those above 150,000.
Teachers have it too easy - make the school year longer - 8 weeks in summer is enough for holidays.
Remove the dead wood in departments and rationalise where necessary

Also I hope the government do something about the multi-nationals who are using Ireland as a tax haven. There has to be some sort of further tax that can be levied there as opposed to the ordinary man on the street being hit. Corporation tax on 15% would not hurt too much.

Burn bondholders and FORCE banks to lend to the man on the street as well as business's

All new build houses should be sold with no VAT to be included. This would mean that a house currently on the market at 100k would then be about 88,100.

Its going to be a tough few years ahead - the quicker the pain the better.

Schism

Looks like there's going to be increases in taxation where possible and new taxes created too. As for cuts, apparently no stone is to be left unturned. Won't be long now until we have the full details.

I hope there's light at the end of the tunnel because right now it seems very dim. I'm generally not one to be too pessimistic but I think these austerity measures are going to be here for quite some time.

irishh_bob

the only certainty is that public servants wont see thier wages cut ( thank you croke park ) and the OAP wont be cut

gerryo777

irishh_bob wrote: »

the only certainty is that public servants wont see thier wages cut ( thank you croke park ) and the OAP wont be cut

Wouldn't want to upset the PS employees now would we? God knows, they get upset enough on here whenever their secure / unsackable well pensioned jobs are mentioned!

Good loser

The Govt are chickening out on welfare cuts.

Inspector Coptoor

Yeah, us teachers who are subbing or on a 12 month contract with no security & who are unable to get a mortgage, and who have had pay cuts of 21% in total so far have it really really easy.....

JaneyMacker

mrgaa1 wrote: »

cut the welfare payments by at least 25% - there is work out there but people do not want to look for it as they are too comfortable on the dole Q.
Cut all public pay by 5% for all those above 60,000, 10 % for all those above 85,000 and 25% for all those above 150,000.
Teachers have it too easy - make the school year longer - 8 weeks in summer is enough for holidays.
Remove the dead wood in departments and rationalise where necessary

Also I hope the government do something about the multi-nationals who are using Ireland as a tax haven. There has to be some sort of further tax that can be levied there as opposed to the ordinary man on the street being hit. Corporation tax on 15% would not hurt too much.

Burn bondholders and FORCE banks to lend to the man on the street as well as business's

All new build houses should be sold with no VAT to be included. This would mean that a house currently on the market at 100k would then be about 88,100.

Its going to be a tough few years ahead - the quicker the pain the better.

Just out of curiosity, how much are you personally effected by all of your suggestions.

irishh_bob

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Yeah, us teachers who are subbing or on a 12 month contract with no security & who are unable to get a mortgage, and who have had pay cuts of 21% in total so far have it really really easy.....

maybe if retired teachers were not ( often ) getting priority when it comes to teaching gigs , thier might be more room for newcomers , time to have a word with the union

KindOfIrish

mrgaa1 wrote: »

Cut all public pay by 5% for all those above 60,000,

Do you think, anybody in a bankrupt company(country) should get 57k salaries? Just level all taxpayers funded jobs to 35K and all budget deficit will be solved!

Inspector Coptoor

Union isn't worth a ****e - overpaid parts who pander to the older generation of teacher.

mrgaa1

mrgaa1 wrote: »

cut the welfare payments by at least 25% - there is work out there but people do not want to look for it as they are too comfortable on the dole Q.

Completely agree with this.

I'm sick of employers banging my door down throwing job offers at me! I'd consider calling the Gardaí only I know they'd only start trying to recruit me too.

Too many jobs, that's the problem!




:rolleyes:

gerryo777

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

Yeah, us teachers who are subbing or on a 12 month contract with no security & who are unable to get a mortgage, and who have had pay cuts of 21% in total so far have it really really easy.....

Being self-employed I wouldn't mind having a 12 month contract ahead of me!

wishmaster200

enda kenny you dirty sneaky ****

Brazzer

gerryo777 wrote: »

Wouldn't want to upset the PS employees now would we? God knows, they get upset enough on here whenever their secure / unsackable well pensioned jobs are mentioned!

No job is unsackable and the pension fund is at breaking point in the PS. The lower paid public servants can't take anymore hits, why wouldn't we get upset? Other joe soaps do and they are applauded. Some PS workers are coming home with little more than those on the dole claiming rent allowance and have the entitlement of medical cards. The higher paid PS's should bear the brunt, not the 'normal' workers who are NOT safe and the only thing we were given after a hammering of wages and pensions was the croke park agreement. Don't forget, without the PS's the country would come to a standstill, a fair days work deserves a fair days pay !

PARKHEAD67

irishh_bob wrote: »

the only certainty is that public servants wont see thier wages cut ( thank you croke park ) and the OAP wont be cut

They bloody well better see their wages cut. A lot of em go around on ballooned wages and benefits and do very, very little in return. Half my teachers in secondary school were absolute lazy wasters.Its only now, looking back that I realise how utterly useless they were.E.G. Our Maths teacher put a problem for us to solve on the board, walked out of the classroom, returned 25 minutes later and put the solution up.Is that teaching?Or is it the inept rubbish that qualifies someone as a teacher. An English teacher refused to teach us for 3 straight days because someone wrote something bad about him on the blackboard.I wont name the school. but my kids WONT be going there.

gerryo777

Brazzer wrote: »

No job is unsackable and the pension fund is at breaking point in the PS. The lower paid public servants can't take anymore hits, why wouldn't we get upset? Other joe soaps do and they are applauded. Some PS workers are coming home with little more than those on the dole claiming rent allowance and have the entitlement of medical cards. The higher paid PS's should bear the brunt, not the 'normal' workers who are NOT safe and the only thing we were given after a hammering of wages and pensions was the croke park agreement. Don't forget, without the PS's the country would come to a standstill, a fair days work deserves a fair days pay !

True. Anyone earning under €30k in the PS should not be touched! But its easier to hit the lower paid and the unemployed. Do you think that they will touch the higher paid in the PS? Not a chance!

Dan_Solo

wishmaster200 wrote: »

enda kenny you dirty sneaky ****

Like the last government, you'll probably find it a case yet again where nobody will actually admit to voting for the current shower.
Well done Irish electorate. Slow handclap.

Brazzer

gerryo777 wrote: »

True. Anyone earning under €30k in the PS should not be touched! But its easier to hit the lower paid and the unemployed. Do you think that they will touch the higher paid in the PS? Not a chance!

No gerry I don't think they will, they're the last one's to be hit ever plus they're the last one's to do a tap of work, they spend their day tucked up in cushy offices 'delegating' work to the plebs as we've been referred to before. Also claiming huge amounts of T&S (travel and subsistence) allowances for swanning around to meetings for committees they nominate themselves to be on in order to avoid work. I agree, under 30K in my eyes are lower paid and shouldn't be touched.

Dan_Solo

gerryo777 wrote: »

Being self-employed I wouldn't mind having a 12 month contract ahead of me!

Then you made a poor decision in being self employed if there are no benefits to it.

gerryo777

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Then you made a poor decision in being self employed if there are no benefits to it.

Probably! Should have got a job in the PS.

JaneyMacker

gerryo777 wrote: »

Probably! Should have got a job in the PS.

I have a brother who went into the public sector. I laughed at him over the last 10 years.
He started laughing at me a couple of year ago, saying that at least he got nice pay rises, until I showed him that my salary had gone up by 300% in the last 10 year. I also had a laugh when i told him how much less i pay than him in taxes and levies.

The public sector is not all its cracked up to be. People have just been trained to hate them over the last few years.

But it comes down to the same old things.
Everyone always thinks they can do the other mans job better than him.
Everyone always thinks they work harder than the other man.
Everyone always thinks they pay enough tax themselves and the other man doesnt pay enough.

woodoo

JaneyMacker wrote: »

The public sector is not all its cracked up to be. People have just been trained to hate them over the last few years.

Amen

Squall19

Who here is not too bothered about the budget tomorrow and thinking about the Euro collapse instead?

I was kind of pissed about the Vat, fuel increases, household charge etc over the last few weeks, but now I don't really care anymore.

As we have a much much bigger problem on the horizion, come next week if the Euro goes there might be no cash in atms, nothing on my debit card, no currency for our country.

It's scary stuff

irishh_bob

Squall19 wrote: »

Who here is not too bothered about the budget tomorrow and thinking about the Euro collapse instead?

I was kind of pissed about the Vat, fuel increases, household charge etc over the last few weeks, but now I don't really care anymore.

As we have a much much bigger problem on the horizion, come next week if the Euro goes there might be no cash in atms, nothing on my debit card, no currency for our country.

It's scary stuff

that wont happen and endas speech tonite will outline why we must do everything merkozy wants in order to prevent the fears you outline above

Kristopherus

irishh_bob wrote: »

maybe if retired teachers were not ( often ) getting priority when it comes to teaching gigs , thier might be more room for newcomers , time to have a word with the union

That practice has been largely discontinued.

Dan_Solo

Enda and the crony squad are currently paid by the ECB. Don't worry, he'll do everything necessary to keep us in the Euro...

gpjordanf1

THe country is run by the public service, the Government of the day (any day ) are just puppets, voted in by us to keep us happy.

While all the major decision & policy making is made behind closed doors by people who will never stand for the public vote and are untouchable.

That is why the people high up in the public service & governemnt, councils & councillors will never suffer like the general public.

This is why we will never have any true reform in this country.

We are a cash cow to be farmed within an inch of our lives.

Dan_Solo

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

THe country is run by the public service, the Government of the day (any day ) are just puppets, voted in by us to keep us happy.

Simply not true. If the Irish electorate ever grew tired of being abused by the FF/FG duopoly, the ULA or SF would make empty out some of those "back rooms" pretty sharpish. You might get a new crows in the back rooms, but the sheepy voter isn't interested in finding out.

gerryo777

gpjordanf1 wrote: »

THe country is run by the public service, the Government of the day (any day ) are just puppets, voted in by us to keep us happy.

While all the major decision & policy making is made behind closed doors by people who will never stand for the public vote and are untouchable.

That is why the people high up in the public service & governemnt, councils & councillors will never suffer like the general public.

This is why we will never have any true reform in this country.

We are a cash cow to be farmed within an inch of our lives.

We will have reform. In a year or so we will be governed from brussels and our elected reps will be mere pen pushers. The sooner the better!

Good loser

JaneyMacker wrote: »

I have a brother who went into the public sector. I laughed at him over the last 10 years.
He started laughing at me a couple of year ago, saying that at least he got nice pay rises, until I showed him that my salary had gone up by 300% in the last 10 year. I also had a laugh when i told him how much less i pay than him in taxes and levies.

The public sector is not all its cracked up to be. People have just been trained to hate them over the last few years.

But it comes down to the same old things.
Everyone always thinks they can do the other mans job better than him.
Everyone always thinks they work harder than the other man.
Everyone always thinks they pay enough tax themselves and the other man doesnt pay enough.

The two easiest-to-recognise scandals in Irish political/economic life are

(1) the level of social welfare and

(2) public service pay and pensions - from the top to the bottom.

This is because the individuals involved are ourselves, our friends, our relatives, our neighbours, even our casual contacts at work and play.

The two together make up 70% of Govt spending.

Without hating, or even disliking, anybody many many people know the remuneration of these groups is scandalous relative to Govt resources and the general deficit.

It is not that reducing these payments will solve the country's problems but not doing so outrages many and they will not give up their anger until far more is done.

They should be the first items on the Govt's agenda in any/every budget.

Squall19

irishh_bob wrote: »

that wont happen and endas speech tonite will outline why we must do everything merkozy wants in order to prevent the fears you outline above

Any link to that speech Bob?

woodoo

Well at least we got the actual deficit straight from the horses mouth tonight. €16 billion. We can all drop the €18 billion and €20 billion figures so often quoted here.

fliball123

woodoo wrote: »

Amen

She means people have had their eyes opened to them for the entitilement culture which is well and truely alive in the PS...and when cuts do come the lower in the ps will be shafted and those on the top levels will have a sybol cut..nothing too serious and yet the ps will remain in there collective bargaining postion...

fliball123

anyone any good links to the cuts budget today?

Dan_Solo

Good loser wrote: »

The two easiest-to-recognise scandals in Irish political/economic life are

(1) the level of social welfare and

(2) public service pay and pensions - from the top to the bottom.

Nope, blanket bank guarantee is numbers 1 to 10 on the list.

Dan_Solo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Nope, blanket bank guarantee is numbers 1 to 10 on the list.

Not really, the rot started in the early 00s with disproportional increases in social welfare, decrease in income tax take due to money flowing in from stamp duty and the likes of the CP agreement.

Max Power1

mrgaa1 wrote: »

cut the welfare payments by at least 25% - there is work out there but people do not want to look for it as they are too comfortable on the dole Q.
Cut all public pay by 5% for all those above 60,000, 10 % for all those above 85,000 and 25% for all those above 150,000.
Teachers have it too easy - make the school year longer - 8 weeks in summer is enough for holidays.
Remove the dead wood in departments and rationalise where necessary

Also I hope the government do something about the multi-nationals who are using Ireland as a tax haven. There has to be some sort of further tax that can be levied there as opposed to the ordinary man on the street being hit. Corporation tax on 15% would not hurt too much.

Burn bondholders and FORCE banks to lend to the man on the street as well as business's

All new build houses should be sold with no VAT to be included. This would mean that a house currently on the market at 100k would then be about 88,100.

Its going to be a tough few years ahead - the quicker the pain the better.

I agreed with your post, until you started suggesting to increase the CT rate.
Are you crazy? That would remove many FDI jobs - of which there are thousands and thousands - and increase dole queues.

Our CT rate needs to remain.

Dan_Solo

RoverJames wrote: »

Not really, the rot started in the early 00s with disproportional increases in social welfare, decrease in income tax take due to money flowing in from stamp duty and the likes of the CP agreement.

Ah yes, blame the slide due to overspend in the public sector when it was the private sector banking crisis that punted us off the cliff.

Dan_Solo

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah yes, blame the slide due to overspend in the public sector when it was the private sector banking crisis that punted us off the cliff.

Who was buying all the property? who was getting the mortgages? The benefactors of giveaway budgets year after year, that coupled with low interest rates and the financial regulator falling asleep led to the banking crisis. Property developers etc were fuelling a demand that grew year on year fuelled by low income tax and the likes of the CP agreement. The private sector benefited too, I didn't aim my point at the public sector.

Dr Galen

There are multiple threads, all discussing various aspects of the proposed budget.

Purely as a house keeping issue, and to make wading through the forum later on, I'm closing this thread, as it is very general in nature, and I know for sure that it is going to get messy later on.

Cheers

DrG