Straight Razor Restoration - Where to buy the higher grit sandpaper?

Dramatik

Hi all, I'm curently restoring a J.A. Henkels razor, there was some deepish pitting on the razor. I have removed as much as possible by hand sanding the razor with a couple of different lower grit sandpaper. I would like to continue my progression until the scratch patterens have fully dissappeared but they don't seem sell any of the higher grit sandpaper in any of the places I've tried, Woodie's ect. I think the highest I could find was 800k or 1000k, does anyone know where I could get above 1000k in Dublin? I'm, dieing to put an edge on this razor and test it out but I don't want to until I've finished sanding and polishing it for obvious reasons. Can anyone on here help? I'm sure someone must know somewhere. Thanks.

cruizer101

Halford's should have up to 2000 maybe even higher.

hitemfrank

Halfords own brand stuff goes up to 2500.

Make sure you've removed all of the scratches from the previous grit before going on to the next one. If you haven't been doing it already sanding at 90 degrees to the previous grit should help you make sure you've removed the scratches from the previous grit.

Dramatik

Yep I've been alternating with each grit cheers, I think up to 2500 should do the job, hopefully the one in Carrickmines has them, damn was up there and all, should have checked in there :mad: Cheers for the info everyone, suppose I better get sanding then

hitemfrank

I only remembered to mention it as I was hand sanding a straight and didn't alternate the sanding direction and by the time I got to 600 there were some scratches that I couldn't get out with 600. I gave up on hand sanding it shortly after that.

MadsL

+1 on the Halfords. Also you can get high grits online - Amazon for instance.

That said, I would seriously consider sending that for restoration, a Henckles razor is a fine thing and you could end up with a real work of art.

I've restored a few at this stage and I'd think twice tackling something as nice as yours. I'd probably hand sand to 600-1200 and then use a tumbler to finish.

I wouldn't try to get all the pits out, you will drive yourself crazy, a little pitting on the spine or top of the blade adds character I think.

Any chance of some pics? Good luck with the restore...

Dramatik

I would usually send my more expensive purchases to The Invisible Edge to be cleaned up, whilst this one is nice, it doesn't fall into that category for me. Also I like a challenge and I get greater satisfaction when I do it myself. What's this tumbler you're talking about? is it some kind of polishing method?

Anyways here's some pics of it in it's current state.

hitemfrank

Well that's a nice example of a covered tang. The scales are pretty nice too.

I was actually expecting a real beater of a razor but that's in pretty good shape.

Dramatik

hitemfrank wrote: »

Well that's a nice example of a covered tang. The scales are pretty nice too.

I was actually expecting a real beater of a razor but that's in pretty good shape.

Cheers, yeah I usually just go for ones that need a little Mas and some elbow grease, I know my limits when it comes to restoring. I would like to do a full restore on a razor at some stage, from start to finish but I don't have the time or patience at the moment to do it, some day though, have to sit down and learn pinning as well.

hitemfrank

I want to get a peening hammer and some pins before I start to try restore anymore blades.

I have one or two that could do with a polish and don't really want to pay someone to do it for me.


The tumbler is a polishing method. They are marketed as case tumblers/vibratory tumblers and are normally used as a polishing method used by people who hand load their own ammunition.

MadsL gave his to me when he moved so I want to be able to pin razors before I mess about unpinning razors to put them in the tumbler.

MadsL

Dramatik wrote: »

Cheers, yeah I usually just go for ones that need a little Mas and some elbow grease, I know my limits when it comes to restoring. I would like to do a full restore on a razor at some stage, from start to finish but I don't have the time or patience at the moment to do it, some day though, have to sit down and learn pinning as well.

Hi Dramatik,

That's a stunning razor - and if I were you I'd start with something more prosaic to restore than that beauty. I managed to snap the blade of one of my first restores - a nicely etched Keen, and I snapped the tang of another unpinning it.

I'd send you an ebay special but they are all on a ship at the moment...

@hitemfrank - plan on getting an mini anvil too -they are very useful. A mirror finished one for jewellers is nice..

hitemfrank

MadsL wrote: »

@hitemfrank - plan on getting an mini anvil too -they are very useful. A mirror finished one for jewellers is nice..

This wetshaving really is saving me money (well that both sailed a long time ago)

Thanks for mentioning the anvil, I wouldn't have thought of it.

MadsL

One other tip for peening (a little OCD but there we have it) polish the end of your ball peen hammer (endless smutty joke potential too) to a mirror finish - so when you are buying, look for the smoothest finish.

The mirror finishes prevent any marks to the pin so you get a shiny pin with nothing to catch clothing or feeling rough.

OCD - but worth that couple of hours polishing..looks nice too. You dont need to do the whole anvil by the way!! Just a 2 cm square is plenty.

hitemfrank

I was just going to use ebay for the stuff. Like this hammer and something like this anvil.

What did you go with for polishing the hammer?

ladhrann

As a matter of interest does anyone know of someone in Ireland restoring straight razors?

I was given an Aladdin's hoard there yesterday of my grandfather's shaving set, which was three straights and three DE razors. All the straights need rust removal and possibly re-pinning.

MadsL

If they were your Grandfather's don't skimp. I don't know of anyone in Ireland who restores except one Ebayer I've seen and a couple on here who are dipping a toe. I've done some restores but would not tackle an heirloom project.

As I say if the razors are in good order (if not sure post pics) the spend the money on a professional restorer - Maximilian in Las Vegas is the best in the business imho;

See before and afters here http://www.madaspenhome.com/straightrazors/about.html

or try undream at straight razor place, his work is also stunning. Also any other of the guys here http://straightrazorplace.com/classifieds/showcat.php?cat=4

I'd urge you to get at least one professionally done. Imagine handing down your Grandfather's beautifully restored razor to your grandfather's great-great grandson and teaching him to use it....

Do post pics though - we can give better advice that way. Do not have at these razors with wet and dry yourself; heirlooms are special.

ladhrann

MadsL wrote: »

I'd urge you to get at least one professionally done. Imagine handing down your Grandfather's beautifully restored razor to your grandfather's great-great grandson and teaching him to use it....

Do post pics though - we can give better advice that way. Do not have at these razors with wet and dry yourself; heirlooms are special.

Yeah that would be pretty cool, hopefully at that stage I'd have gotten over the horror of getting some bird up the duff! Anyway here are the pics of what I got, all left in an old cardboard suitcase since 1991.

ladhrann

Sorry about the double post, only allowed 5 attachments per post. Can't put them in the message body either anyway: The three razors are a Julius Ullendahl or Udahl, a Puma Gold, and a Dubl Duck Satin Edge. Traces of goldwash remain on the Puma. They're all German Solingen blades. Again all bought pre-WW2 as far as I can make out. One may have been his uncle's even, as it had an American price tag on it, $7!! That was for the Dubl Duck by the way.

Thoughts or comments appreciated.

MadsL

ladhrann wrote: »

Sorry about the double post, only allowed 5 attachments per post. Can't put them in the message body either anyway: The three razors are a Julius Ullendahl or Udahl, a Puma Gold, and a Dubl Duck Satin Edge. Traces of goldwash remain on the Puma. They're all German Solingen blades. Again all bought pre-WW2 as far as I can make out. One may have been his uncle's even, as it had an American price tag on it, $7!! That was for the Dubl Duck by the way.

Thoughts or comments appreciated.

Dubl Duck is worrth about $200 - $300 in vg condition restored. Puma is also a well sought after blade.

ladhrann

Many thanks for the information on the blades. I will keep them however and get them restored. Based on the photos any advice? I would probably get the scales on the Udahl changed as to be honest black plastic looks a bit gammy. With the Puma and dubl Duck I would keep the original handles due to the inlay on them.

As a matter of interest can DE razors be cleaned up at all? There were three in the kit as well, identified as Gilettes by a gent in another thread.

hitemfrank

Yeah you should be able to clean them up.

Have a read through this link; http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Safety_razor_maintenance

There are links to some other threads in that link which should be of use to you as well.

MadsL

Anyone want 3000 grit - found that today in Autozone ...I'll post if anyone is seriously looking for it - hopefully cheaper than online.

Deise Musashi

For very high grit I like to use either Micromesh or 3M Pressure Sensitive adhesive mylar backed polishing films.

Micromesh is like a heavy cloth backed wet and dry, the 3M stuff is for polishing fibre optic connections.

I use them for my knife sharpening, nice shiny edges!

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=33004&cat=1,43072

I got the micromesh from a guy called Jedidiah on the Trader section of British Blades Forum.

Dramatik

Cheers for the advice everyone, will defo try get some of the mesh to test.

I've finished dry sanding the blade and it turned out really nice so far, far better then I expected. Gonna wet sand it next when I have time for some extra shine.
I use Mass to wet the sandpaper so its cleaning and polishing at the same time, then I sand with a bit of vaseline oil to wet the sand paper as the grit gets stuck in it and it seems to help. I do this through out the various grits and have been getting some nice results so far.

To be honest I thought the blade was pretty shiney before I sanded it, but sanding really gave it that mirror finish I was looking for. I really want to get this razor finished so I can move onto the next one, I've a really nice Boker's Brand razor that's just crying out to be cleaned up, finding the time though is a problem.

I've decided I'm not gonna buy any more razor's till all the ones I've got are cleaned up and honed up. That should help me get them done
Has anyone else on here got any restores they've done that they'd like to share? I'll post mine once it's done, we need more razor pictures up in here!

Dord

I have stuff up to around 12000 (not a mistype) that I bought from stewmac.com for work on guitar finishes. They deliver here.

Deise Musashi

Micromesh leaves a very shiny finish and can be washed/cleaned to a degree after use. The guy's sales thread is here, you may have to register to be able to see it though?

http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?115807-Micromesh-thread/page9

Jedidiah wrote:

i'm going to reduce the price of a full set to £20 posted in the UK. That is a full set, one 14" by 6" sheet of every listed grit grade. The most Micromesh for the lowest price on the Internet! Anyone interested, drop me a PM or post in the thread.

By the way, the price includes postage (in UK), packing and Paypal fee's but be quick, stocks are limited. Oversea's orders please contact me for your needs and i'll be able to give you a more accurate postage rate.

MadsL

Want.

Deise Musashi

Here MadsL,

PM me your postal addy and I'll get some micromesh out to you. Small token for your help in answering my questions!

The MX grade is designed for steel, but all grades do work on steel. The other grits do great stuff to bone, plastic, G10, Micarta, Stag, Jade all sorts of fossilised tusk and can polish the scratchs out of your watch face etc.

Let me know and I'll pop a full range of grits in the post to you.

Cheers lad.

MadsL

Diese, you are a legend. i'm just repinning your mule razor...

PM sent.

Deise Musashi

No PM received yet?

May be boards playing up?

I'll get it in the post to ye lads on Monday...(my 40th)

"Sigh" Auld man playing with auld tech...


At least I get a great shave with no razor burn,
and feck all going to Gillette!

All is right with planet Me! :P

Dramatik

Deise Musashi wrote: »

Here MadsL,
The other grits do great stuff to bone, plastic, G10, Micarta, Stag, Jade all sorts of fossilised tusk and can polish the scratchs out of your watch face etc.

I was actualy gonna ask that, I've an old Joseph Elliot razor that I've cleaned up, the scales were very dehydrated when I got it so I rubbed some clear oil on them and they look much better now but there are still some shallow ridges on them where they had started to shrivel up and I would like to smooth them out. What grit would you recomend starting with?

Also I'm not sure whether the scales are some kind of wood or if they're old horn which has dryed out. Does anyone know how to tell the difference? There's a lot of information on the net about razors in general but I haven't found much on the different scale material for example how to tell if one is looking at real tortise or faux tortise scales ect.

hitemfrank

It sounds like they could be horn judging by the rigdes you mention. If they are no longer attached to the razor you could soak them in neatsfoot oil for a day or so and it would soak in.

A wet sand with high grit after that and they should look good then. This is where the micromesh would be useful. I've seen 12000 grit mentioned on a restoration thread elsewhere.

I have a set of horn scales that have some ridges from when they dried out but I can't get it to show up in pictures. If you post a picture of the scales it should help identify them.

Horn is pretty much just compacted hair so it will stink when burned. Heat up a pin and stick it into the scales a tiny bit where it wont be seen (inside). The stink should tell you if it's horn or not. I would use this as a last resort really.

MadsL

Worth checking they are not celluloid first. Give the insides a rub with any grade and have a sniff, if it smells of ping-pong ball it's celluloid...careful then as celluloid is highly flammable.

MadsL

Deise , changed my mind and sent you a Bismark that looks a good bit straighter than the one I was going to send. No need in giving you too much of a challenge. The scales are warped but that shouldn't matter for honing practice.

Send it back to me and I'll put some decent scales on it, I might dissolve that set and get the Bismark metal decal off it.

Dramatik

hitemfrank wrote: »

It sounds like they could be horn judging by the rigdes you mention. If they are no longer attached to the razor you could soak them in neatsfoot oil for a day or so and it would soak in.

A wet sand with high grit after that and they should look good then. This is where the micromesh would be useful. I've seen 12000 grit mentioned on a restoration thread elsewhere.

I have a set of horn scales that have some ridges from when they dried out but I can't get it to show up in pictures. If you post a picture of the scales it should help identify them.

Horn is pretty much just compacted hair so it will stink when burned. Heat up a pin and stick it into the scales a tiny bit where it wont be seen (inside). The stink should tell you if it's horn or not. I would use this as a last resort really.

I will post a picture when I get home from work tonight if I've time, I'm pretty sure it's horn now cause I remember when I got it the scales were warped and I used a hairdryer to heat them up again and I remember them smelling not too pleasant. Also they are black and around the edges they've a slightly brown tint.

Deise Musashi

Deise , changed my mind and sent you a Bismark that looks a good bit straighter than the one I was going to send. No need in giving you too much of a challenge. The scales are warped but that shouldn't matter for honing practice.

Cheers lad, out of interest what do you do with a curved blade? In a knife I would just grind more from one side and straighten it out, or on a very warped blade use dowels and a bench vice to bend it straight :eek:

Given there's not a lot of material to play with and the brittle nature of a razor, would you just use slip stones/round hones to sharpen around the curve?

Another question...:rolleyes: Sorry!
I set the bevel on a Chas Clements yesterday, worked up the Choseras and my 12k chinese stone and stropped for a bit. It will do the hanging hair test along some of the blade but not all. Is it necessary for the whole edge to easily pop hair like this to be an acceptable shaving edge?

I think today I'll try a bit more time on the 12k, and maybe pyramid up and down some one, half and quarter micron diamond paste on glass backed strops. See if I can't make the whole edge pop hairs.

Some seem to feel the diamond makes too "grabby" an edge, and chromium oxide given the oval shape of the abrasive makes for a smoother shave at the same micron grit rating?

If I can get the edge cleanly apexed and popping hair with diamond, it's no big deal to strop on chromium and leather to give a softer polish and smoother shave if it's needed. I'll give it a try anyway and get her back to hitemfrank for a more experienced opinion on how she looks.

If nothing else I've really learnt a lot about polishing on the finer stones and strops that I can bring to my knife sharpening. It also forced me to lap the surface of my surgical black stone which was old and sad looking. It's still got some chips but would be usable for knife work again!

Cheers lads for the kick up in the hole and for the renewed interest in sharpening

hitemfrank

For a warped straight razor it pretty much comes down to freehanding it.

You do the normal x-stroke (or straight back and forth if your hone is wide enough) while at the same time rock the blade from the heel of the blade to the point on the side where the warp is.

Well that's how you would deal with a razor which touches the hone in the middle of the blade. If it is warped elsewhere it's pretty much a case of adjusting your technique.


Another thing I've heard you can do it is to use a thin hone. This will reduce the amount of the blade on the hone so it can minimise the effect the warp has on the honing. When I say thin, I'm talking about ones like in this video (the video is nothing to do with a warped blade)

It would probably work better on a synthetic hone as the coticule probably won't be of low enough grit to set the bevel. If you have a synthetic hone that's not bonded to a stand/holder you can just turn it on it's side.

MadsL

General rule is a smile is good, a frown is bad.

Smiling...



Frowning area removed (involves selectively taping the spine and honing down parts of the blade, advanced stuff...I've removed a frown but it is a pain in the ass)



You lift the heel on the stroke to deal with the smile...

some further advice here..

http://straightrazorplace.com/advanced-honing-topics/18363-honing-smiling-blade-intentional-curve-not-warp.html

With vids...
http://straightrazorplace.com/honing/64518-how-i-hone-smiling-razor.html

MadsL

Deise Musashi wrote: »

I set the bevel on a Chas Edwards yesterday, worked up the Choseras and my 12k chinese stone and stropped for a bit. It will do the hanging hair test along some of the blade but not all. Is it necessary for the whole edge to easily pop hair like this to be an acceptable shaving edge?)

Don't get hung up on HHT, it's just one measure...

Do you know how to thumb pad test? I assume you do...I find that a better measure, I have honed some good shavers that will not pop a hanging hair.

Deise Musashi

I know when a knife feels sharp, and very sharp...

A razor feels different as the stock is so thin.

I like the feel on the stones as the honing goes well, even putting different pressure through the blade can be felt on the stone!

I'll try some more polishing but may need to go up and down the grits to get the best out of this type of honing?

I'm just out the door for my Birthday dinner, I'll talk more in a bit!

MadsL

Good wiki here on sharpness tests

http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Sharpness_tests_explained

Deise Musashi

I think on a blade "that" warped I would revert to knife technique, or even Murray Carter style!

As a knife guy I have o respect what that little canadian has done!

His razor tech is a hybrid of knife and razor sharpening, lots of pressure to make the edge behave!

The boys I know from knifeforums have recreated the Carter Shave and found it good, maybe not as good as Undreams but a good working shave anyways.

They had a knife sharpening comp. at one time. Double blind with the tester not knowing who did which knife, all knives the same make and batch.

Murray Carter won that outright, even though CDawg entered as well! He makes an awesome edge!

Like him or not, Murray knows edges!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTV4ph1LE3c

and C-Dawg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTxFtK4shVY

MadsL

Good wiki here on sharpness tests

http://straightrazorplace.com/srpwiki/index.php/Sharpness_tests_explained

MadsL

Just on razor terminology; warped = uneven when viewed sideways on = V = when you have an edge that is wonky or twisted.

Smiling = that upsweep caused by freehanding overtime and lifting the heel inadvertently as it is honed.

Just a FYI

Deise Musashi

Good stuff...cool!

Warped is what I hardly ever see in knives! It is a bugger to change that shape or sharpen it, usually needs a good grinding!

Smiling is what we call a skinner! Also a hoor to change or fix... can be done though

I am thinking little to no pressure and just work the grits?

But then I have a razor a little tiny bit lopsided?

Can I press a little to make her straight? Or just work the grit to make it work?

Should I make the grits make the razor work, or use the razor to make the hones work?

Razors kick ass! Thanks for the advice lad!

MadsL

Depends what you want to shape, I find marker pen along the edge works, that way you know where you are removing steel. A good loupe should also show you where you are honing.

The real bitch I find is getting the bevels even (not essential as you can see on that Clements mule blade, I got the bevel pretty uneven but the shave was still good, see if you can improve it)

Once you have the bevel right and cutting arm hair, it's all just polishing...;)

Dramatik

hitemfrank wrote: »

If you post a picture of the scales it should help identify them.

Here's a couple of pictures of the razor in question:









Hopefully these'll help to identify the scale material.

Here's a picture I took before I started restoring this razor, you can really see the ridges I was talkin' about in my earlier post in it.

Deise Musashi

Looks a lot like ox or buffalo horn to me?

A fine grit paper and some white mineral oil should make it near glassy smooth. A buffer would make it shine like glass but be very careful!

I use a stationery belt sander for some sharpening jobs, but buffers scare the bejaysus out of me! They will catch and launch an object out of your hands in a split second. Most pro. knife makers I know say the buffer is the most dangerous tool in the shop. Cardboard and tape the blade if going near a buffer lad, keep all your bits attached. :eek:

PM me your address and I'll send you some Micromesh paper in a selection of grits. It should help out in the finishing stages.

hitemfrank

Looks like they could be horn with some streaks in them. As Deise says, soak them and then a high grit paper and they could look great.

Just as a highlight of what you can achieve on streaked horn that's been polished have a look at the razor in this link.


Nice faux frameback btw.

Dramatik

Deise Musashi wrote: »

Looks a lot like ox or buffalo horn to me?

A fine grit paper and some white mineral oil should make it near glassy smooth. A buffer would make it shine like glass but be very careful!

What grit would you recommend starting at? 1000? 2000? Haven't done a set of scales before. Also would you use alternating direction whilst sanding like one would on a blade?

Deise Musashi wrote: »

PM me your address and I'll send you some Micromesh paper in a selection of grits. It should help out in the finishing stages.

Cheers I'd be much appreciate of that, it'll defo be put to good use anyway PM Sent.

hitemfrank wrote: »

Looks like they could be horn with some streaks in them. As Deise says, soak them and then a high grit paper and they could look great.

Just as a highlight of what you can achieve on streaked horn that's been polished have a look at the razor in this link.

Nice faux frameback btw.

Yeah they look really nice, if I could get them to look anywhere close to those I'd be more than happy.

Deise Musashi

What grit would you recommend starting at? 1000? 2000?

I'm not sure but if you start higher and work down you'll leave less deep scratchs to work out later. May be try start at 4000 and see how that goes?

Finish with T-Cut on a soft cloth, if you do use a buffer use a very slow speed or it will burn.

According to the knife makers, there may be pits appear as you sand away the surface. Keep the dust and mix with thin Cyano Acrylate (Super Glue) and use on a cocktail stick to fill in. The CA will buff to a high shine.

Post pics when she's done lad, be cool to see it finished.