12 men central to the crisis

jasonc5432

The below article outlines 12 of the people central to our current crisis.

Its important to remember what ACTUALLY happened rather than rewrite history pretending that people out of work in 2011 have caused a crisis that STARTED in 2007-8, if not earlier, given rampant deregulation and ridiculously bad financial management in government and banks.

Of course, most, if not all, of these 12 masters of industry are still very wealthy men!!

"sharing the pain" --- what an embarrassement of a country Ireland is!

More austerity for pensioners and the poorest anyone?

Im just glad we will have lots of documentary evidence of the real criminals in this crisis, so when i tell my kids why they dont live in ireland anymore, when theyre older, ill have an easy time explaining how I couldnt live in a place that takes from the poorest and rewards the inept, incompetent, elites who caused the majorify of our problems.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-dirty-dozen-the-12-men-who-together-destroyed-our-economy-2953404.html

Solair

I'm really getting very sick of it myself.
Nothing has changed and the new Government seems as useless as the last!

jasonc5432

The current government are every bit as bad.

Theyre continuing the champagne lifestyle subsidies for the richest and then cutting the rest of the country -- the majority -- and expect us to believe theyre doing what they "have to do because we're broke"!

What a joke!

If we're broke then why are only SOME poeple REALLY suffering!!?? While others are still wealthier than the pharoahs??!!

In a regular job, if you mess up, you get fired! No pay-- just fired!

In a "top job", if you mess up, you get golden parachutes, golden handshakes, and gold plated pensions.

And when many of us question this, we are told we are communists or bolsheviks.

Well ive news for ye, the current regime is FAR closer to oligopolist Soviet Russia, than what those of us who believe in a real democracy want.

Shame on the current government. And the last one.

And those who support rewarding the inept while concurrently implementing austerity on the poorest. Shame on Ireland

Bullseye1

This was posted elsewhere but it's pretty accurate LOL

jasonc5432

Excellent Bullseye1

Park Royal

When you include all the "professionals" in the local authorities who were

complicit in the flooding of their areas with large numbers of "ghost estates

etc" .....including local councillors .....PLANNING DEPARTMENTS??

I fear 12 people being responsible is only the tip of the ice berg.....

But its a start....

jasonc5432

Park Royal wrote: »

When you include all the "professionals" in the local authorities who were

complicit in the flooding of their areas with large numbers of "ghost estates

etc" .....including local councillors .....PLANNING DEPARTMENTS??

I fear 12 people being responsible is only the tip of the ice berg.....

But its a start....

Agreed, MANY people are to blame. MOST of them are still extremely wealthy though.... ironically.

But I guess at least the rest of the country can share all the pain goin round.

That is SOMEthing

jasonc5432

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Agreed, MANY people are to blame. MOST of them are still extremely wealthy though.... ironically.

But I guess at least the rest of the country can share all the pain goin round.

That is SOMEthing

Why does other people's wealth bother you?
We wouldn't be in this mess if other people's wealth didn't bother us. If we didn't feel the need to one-up our neighbours and get bigger, better houses that we couldn't really afford we wouldn't be in this mess.

Sure there might be 12 people you can point the finger at, but you'll need a mighty big finger to point at 4 million people, because we as a collective society were fully signed up members of the madness.

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Why does other people's wealth bother you?
We wouldn't be in this mess if other people's wealth didn't bother us. If we didn't feel the need to one-up our neighbours and get bigger, better houses that we couldn't really afford we wouldn't be in this mess.

Sure there might be 12 people you can point the finger at, but you'll need a mighty big finger to point at 4 million people, because we as a collective society were fully signed up members of the madness.

So, what you are basically saying is -- 'we ALL partied'.

Eh, no thanks -- not having that! Many of us lived life in a financially conservative manner EVEN during the BOOM God forbid!

So, do NOT accuse ALL irish people of creating this mess! How dare you!

I did NOT make decisions in banks or government to deregulate the entire financial system to the point where a tiny elite of ego maniacs could wreck it!

Dont give me that guff.

Point the finger specifically, but NOT generally! Then Ill have no problem discussing individual factors OR people -- no problem at all!

But dont give me that 'we all partied' NONSENSE

kippy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Why does other people's wealth bother you?
We wouldn't be in this mess if other people's wealth didn't bother us. If we didn't feel the need to one-up our neighbours and get bigger, better houses that we couldn't really afford we wouldn't be in this mess.

Sure there might be 12 people you can point the finger at, but you'll need a mighty big finger to point at 4 million people, because we as a collective society were fully signed up members of the madness.

I agree, there is and was SOME level of individual culpability and a large amount of us have some level of individual responsibility HOWEVER to suggest that each and every one of us has the exact same level of culpability is complete lunacy and rather silly.
I don't really care about other peoples wealth but I do tend to care about how they came by that wealth and whether their possession of this wealth is legal and indeed moral.

There is NO DOUBT that a number of key individuals were implicit in what went on and that certain levels of Irish Society became far to intertwined.

I didn't buy ten houses during the boom. Or twenty fur coats. I was a student for much of it, spending several stints working both private and public sector jobs. I have no personal debt.



A reply to the above article:

Firstly comes the outrageously incompetent Banks who loaned mega money on construction projects, against virtually no collateral and with virtually no chance of being paid back if the projects went belly up. And yes, the developers who thought the good times would last forever.

Secondly comes the financial regulator who was blind deaf and dumb, and failed miserably to tackle this bank behaviour.

Thirdly comes the Government who failed to react when they were warned about our housing bubble and bank lending behaviour, and who also failed to stand up to the electorate who demanded more and more and more spending.

Lastly in the blame game is US, the ELECTORATE. The ELECTORATE saw the good times, and they demanded in no uncertain terms, enormous increases in spending on Health, education and social welfare. The ELECTORATE saw money as the panacea for all ills. The ELECTORATE used their votes and marched in the streets to demand higher and higher spending and despite being warned over and over again, they didn't give a damn about our borrowing or the future of the economy. Yes WE THE VOTERS, WE THE CITIZENS of this country need to shoulder a good chunk of the blame.

It is nothing but nasty and vindictive to load the blame for our trouble on one small group while totally ignoring everyone else's role in this fiasco.

We all contributed to this mess and we should all suck it up and stop lashing out, and instead work to fix it.

Now the question I have to ask you is why do I believe that we as the electorate had as big a part as the guys at the top, but you don't? They were merely bending to our wishes, and then buying us off with huge give-away budgets.

Why can I see that, but you can't? Why do you insist on laying the blame on anyone who's maintained a bit of wealth, when we still have an enormously generous welfare system, healthcare system, police, roads etc.

jasonc5432

kippy wrote: »

I agree, there is and was SOME level of individual culpability and a large amount of us have some level of individual responsibility HOWEVER to suggest that each and every one of us has the exact same level of culpability is complete lunacy and rather silly.
I don't really care about other peoples wealth but I do tend to care about how they came by that wealth and whether their possession of this wealth is legal and indeed moral.

There is NO DOUBT that a number of key individuals were implicit in what went on and that certain levels of Irish Society became far to intertwined.

Great post ^^

I agree

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I didn't buy ten houses during the boom. Or twenty fur coats. I was a student for much of it, spending several stints working both private and public sector jobs. I have no personal debt.



A reply to the above article:


Now the question I have to ask you is why do I believe that we as the electorate had as big a part as the guys at the top, but you don't? They were merely bending to our wishes, and then buying us off with huge give-away budgets.

Why can I see that, but you can't? Why do you insist on laying the blame on anyone who's maintained a bit of wealth, when we still have an enormously generous welfare system, healthcare system, police, roads etc.

I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever agreeing that there are MORE than just these 12 to blame.

However, these 12 are top of the list! You'll surely agree on that?

And, i strongly qualify my agreement by saying that if you consider ALL Irish people to be to blame -- I utterly disagree with you and actually find it offensive to the honest hard working conservative spenders, many of whom did not profit during the boom in any substantive way and are now BLAMED by you for that boom --- no way!

jasonc5432

jasonc5432 wrote: »

I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever agreeing that there are MORE than just these 12 to blame.

However, these 12 are top of the list! You'll surely agree on that?

And, i strongly qualify my agreement by saying that if you consider ALL Irish people to be to blame -- I utterly disagree with you and actually find it offensive to the honest hard working conservative spenders, many of whom did not profit during the boom in any substantive way and are now BLAMED by you for that boom --- no way!

My problem with placing the culpability on a certain number of individuals is that we are missing the point completely. The problem is/was a national mindset. It's the mindset that leads to the actions. We haven't changed our mindset one bit. A few people have changed, but what is different? We're just repairing the old Ireland instead of building a new one.

And when I say that, I certainly don't mean rebuilding Ireland as some sort of socialist paradise. My revolution is one of the mind.

But my god, could we at least start looking out for each other and stop trying to grab a piece of everyone elses pie for yourself.

jasonc5432

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

My problem with placing the culpability on a certain number of individuals is that we are missing the point completely. The problem is/was a national mindset. It's the mindset that leads to the actions. We haven't changed our mindset one bit. A few people have changed, but what is different? We're just repairing the old Ireland instead of building a new one.

And when I say that, I certainly don't mean rebuilding Ireland as some sort of socialist paradise. My revolution is one of the mind.

But my god, could we at least start looking out for each other and stop trying to grab a piece of everyone elses pie for yourself.

So i should now start standing up for Bertie and Seanie?

But blaming the average working man and woman.

Em... no thanks

Oh and for the proof that we are still the same old country, just look at people's attitudes to Germany.

The idea that German politicians have to appeal to actual german citizens seems lost on many Irish people. The inability for so many people to understand why Germany isn't just capitulating to the Irish people and giving us what we want (loadsa money) because "we deserve it".

B.S.

What makes us not have to follow the same rules as everyone else? Because we're Irish? Where have I heard that before?

jasonc5432

jasonc5432 wrote: »

So i should now start standing up for Bertie and Seanie?

But blaming the average working man and woman.

Em... no thanks

Did I say that? If you're going to continue to quote my posts and then try to paint me like some evil Bertie Ahern supporter I'm going to report the post.

Get a grip.

Godge

jasonc5432 wrote: »

So, what you are basically saying is -- 'we ALL partied'.

Eh, no thanks -- not having that! Many of us lived life in a financially conservative manner EVEN during the BOOM God forbid!

So, do NOT accuse ALL irish people of creating this mess! How dare you!

I did NOT make decisions in banks or government to deregulate the entire financial system to the point where a tiny elite of ego maniacs could wreck it!

Dont give me that guff.

Point the finger specifically, but NOT generally! Then Ill have no problem discussing individual factors OR people -- no problem at all!

But dont give me that 'we all partied' NONSENSE

Well if you were one of the people who acted sensibly in the boom times you:

(1) Bought a house with a mortgage you can still easily afford (or sold it at the top of the market and rented)
(2) Got educated in a long-term sustainable career
(3) Got a job in an area of the economy (IT or Pharma) which wasn't linked to the construction boom so looking good in salary terms
(4) Didn't overspend with the credit card or personal loans on holidays, cars, kitchens, extensions, etc
(5) Prudently saved in preparation for the bad times.

In my opinion, you need to tick at least four of the above boxes to claim that you didn't take part in the madness.

Now, if you are one of the lucky ones who can tick those boxes, you are in a great place now (and I know a few people in that position) so why are you on here moaning about things?

It seems that a lot of people are denying their own personal responsibility for their own mess. I am happy to admit that I took out a car and holiday loan I probably shouldn't have and I overspent on credit cards. Thankfully I was pretty good on the other boxes and have managed to pay off those debts leaving me with just a mortgage and a steady albeit reduced income. Like so many others, I could have been better off if I had been sensible but unlike them, I am prepared to look at my own behaviour and accept my share of the blame.

Once again, if you didn't PARTY and acted sensibly, why are you so ANGRY? You should be on the pig's back by now.

Godge

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

My problem with placing the culpability on a certain number of individuals is that we are missing the point completely. The problem is/was a national mindset. It's the mindset that leads to the actions. We haven't changed our mindset one bit. A few people have changed, but what is different? We're just repairing the old Ireland instead of building a new one.

And when I say that, I certainly don't mean rebuilding Ireland as some sort of socialist paradise. My revolution is one of the mind.

But my god, could we at least start looking out for each other and stop trying to grab a piece of everyone elses pie for yourself.

Excellent post, you only have to come on boards and read all the posts from people calling for cuts to everything but themselves and refusing to take account of what has happened already.

jasonc5432

Godge wrote: »

Well if you were one of the people who acted sensibly in the boom times you:

(1) Bought a house with a mortgage you can still easily afford (or sold it at the top of the market and rented)
(2) Got educated in a long-term sustainable career
(3) Got a job in an area of the economy (IT or Pharma) which wasn't linked to the construction boom so looking good in salary terms
(4) Didn't overspend with the credit card or personal loans on holidays, cars, kitchens, extensions, etc
(5) Prudently saved in preparation for the bad times.

In my opinion, you need to tick at least four of the above boxes to claim that you didn't take part in the madness.

Now, if you are one of the lucky ones who can tick those boxes, you are in a great place now (and I know a few people in that position) so why are you on here moaning about things?

It seems that a lot of people are denying their own personal responsibility for their own mess. I am happy to admit that I took out a car and holiday loan I probably shouldn't have and I overspent on credit cards. Thankfully I was pretty good on the other boxes and have managed to pay off those debts leaving me with just a mortgage and a steady albeit reduced income. Like so many others, I could have been better off if I had been sensible but unlike them, I am prepared to look at my own behaviour and accept my share of the blame.

Once again, if you didn't PARTY and acted sensibly, why are you so ANGRY? You should be on the pig's back by now.

In order of your above straw poll:

1) I did not buy a house between 1990-2011

2) Studied to PhD level and had my research published internationally.

3) No personal career links with construction

4) I have never paid one cent interest on a credit card or 1 cent interest on a loan -- I save for things I need to buy -- including cars AND holidays -- god forbid!! Saving! What?? Remember that!!

5) Almost all of my income during the 2000s was spent on either necessities or put in a special bank account that was 'for a rainy day'. Funnily enough, ive needed to dip into it, on 'rainy days' (financial rainy days that is).


So.... i think your straw poll puts me in the clear!

I'm 'on here moaning about things' (as you put it) because I care about people in my community and I believe they are being royally screwed. Bankers, politicians, bondholders, and developers who made GIGANTIC mistakes over the past 20 years are being REWARDED while people who played little or NO ROLE in this crisis are being punished!!!

What a shambles of a society -- morality gone out the window and replaced with a socio-pathological self interested malaise.

And I AGREE!!! There ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE REFUSING TO ACCEPT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS MESS!!! -- bankers, bondholders, politicians, developers, CEOs in various financial institutions etc etc!!

I FULLY AGREE!!

Just because my financial situation is better than (maybe) many people in Ireland, does NOT mean I shirk my responsibility to FELLOW people in MY COMMUNITY!!

If it means that to YOU!!! Then I think that says plenty about YOUR moral fibre.

But DO NOT paint me with your own selfish greedy guts brush!

lyndonjones

I bought a house when interest rates were 14%, I live in a very modest 3 bed semi and based my house on one wage because I didn't know the future - babies, loss of job etc

I work in IT

I have always kept my loans to a minimum and paid promptly when possible. I never partook in the madness of holiday homes in Bulgaria, buying an apartment off the plans that never saw the light of day or felt the car had to be a BMW X5 or better. My holidays were/ are spent mostly in Ireland good weather and bad.

I have some savings and I mean some, this being for my daughters education

BUT NOW...

I find that I am stretched to keep up with the monthly bills etc and everyday expenses to the point that I am starting to eat into the meagre savings we have built up and I feel it will be eroded by the policies of this government and of the previous.

Over €3,000 in USC tax alone!

I didn't party or gain obscene wealth during the Celtic Tiger and now I am paying the price of others people's greed, it angers me :mad:


To watch Enda Kenny last night made my blood boil, the fat cats are still that FAT and the ordinary man, and woman, is seen as the "low hanging fruit" that can be tapped for extra taxation.

How can I be on the pigs back when I am being taxed, alone with many others, to the hilt?

Read the front page of the Sunday Mail to see Enda sanction a substantial pay increase to a former advisor/ work colleague Mr. Conlon.

Think he will feel the pinch???? doubt it.

Godge wrote: »

Well if you were one of the people who acted sensibly in the boom times you:

(1) Bought a house with a mortgage you can still easily afford (or sold it at the top of the market and rented)
(2) Got educated in a long-term sustainable career
(3) Got a job in an area of the economy (IT or Pharma) which wasn't linked to the construction boom so looking good in salary terms
(4) Didn't overspend with the credit card or personal loans on holidays, cars, kitchens, extensions, etc
(5) Prudently saved in preparation for the bad times.

In my opinion, you need to tick at least four of the above boxes to claim that you didn't take part in the madness.

Now, if you are one of the lucky ones who can tick those boxes, you are in a great place now (and I know a few people in that position) so why are you on here moaning about things?

It seems that a lot of people are denying their own personal responsibility for their own mess. I am happy to admit that I took out a car and holiday loan I probably shouldn't have and I overspent on credit cards. Thankfully I was pretty good on the other boxes and have managed to pay off those debts leaving me with just a mortgage and a steady albeit reduced income. Like so many others, I could have been better off if I had been sensible but unlike them, I am prepared to look at my own behaviour and accept my share of the blame.

Once again, if you didn't PARTY and acted sensibly, why are you so ANGRY? You should be on the pig's back by now.

Park Royal

I did 13 years voluntary work with a rural Credit union ......

one of the most impressive things I saw during those years was

mostly WOMEN......from a poor area of the town taking out a loan

to buy ONE double galzed window for their local authority house,

they could not afford to do more than that at a time.........

it was prudent lending and borrowing......for a prudent cause......

and there were lots of them doing it that way.....they would pay back their

loan and go again getting an another loan for another window......

I dont think we could include these people in the MADNESS .?

jasonc5432

lyndonjones wrote: »

I bought a house when interest rates were 14%, I live in a very modest 3 bed semi and based my house on one wage because I didn't know the future - babies, loss of job etc

I work in IT

I have always kept my loans to a minimum and paid promptly when possible. I never partook in the madness of holiday homes in Bulgaria, buying an apartment off the plans that never saw the light of day or felt the car had to be a BMW X5 or better. My holidays were/ are spent mostly in Ireland good weather and bad.

I have some savings and I mean some, this being for my daughters education

BUT NOW...

I find that I am stretched to keep up with the monthly bills etc and everyday expenses to the point that I am starting to eat into the meagre savings we have built up and I feel it will be eroded by the policies of this government and of the previous.

Over €3,000 in USC tax alone!

I didn't party or gain obscene wealth during the Celtic Tiger and now I am paying the price of others people's greed, it angers me :mad:


To watch Enda Kenny last night made my blood boil, the fat cats are still that FAT and the ordinary man, and woman, is seen as the "low hanging fruit" that can be tapped for extra taxation.

How can I be on the pigs back when I am being taxed, alone with many others, to the hilt?

Read the front page of the Sunday Mail to see Enda sanction a substantial pay increase to a former advisor/ work colleague Mr. Conlon.

Think he will feel the pinch???? doubt it.

Jeze ^^^ maybe not ALL OF US partied AFTER ALL!!

Jeze, ya think??

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE some of us have actually got the bloody right to argue that some people ARE being screwed who did NOT cause this crisis!

News-flash eh!

GOD!!!

jasonc5432

Park Royal wrote: »

I did 13 years voluntary work with a rural Credit union ......

one of the most impressive things I saw during those years was

mostly WOMEN......from a poor area of the town taking out a loan

to buy ONE double galzed window for their local authority house,

they could not afford to do more than that at a time.........

it was prudent lending and borrowing......for a prudent cause......

and there were lots of them doing it that way.....they would pay back their

loan and go again getting an another loan for another window......

I dont think we could include these people in the MADNESS .?

Dont worry, they surely had improper thoughts about money or something.... theyll be blamed somehow.

Maybe those women are actually THE REAL cause of this crisis.

Each window they bought was more expensive than the last... pushing up inflation... bit by bit!!!.... until.... a boom in window sales developed.... then....


Anyways. Clearly, as most people with their two feet on the ground know, those of us living in the real world that is, there are people to blame for this crisis ---- and they are NOT the ones being screwed with austerity.

Many of them are getting bonuses, bailouts, and gold plated lump sums, pensions, and handshakes.

What a corrupt country we live in.

But .. wait for it... 'we all partied'

snore..........

Godge

jasonc5432 wrote: »

In order of your above straw poll:

1) I did not buy a house between 1990-2011

2) Studied to PhD level and had my research published internationally.

3) No personal career links with construction

4) I have never paid one cent interest on a credit card or 1 cent interest on a loan -- I save for things I need to buy -- including cars AND holidays -- god forbid!! Saving! What?? Remember that!!

5) Almost all of my income during the 2000s was spent on either necessities or put in a special bank account that was 'for a rainy day'. Funnily enough, ive needed to dip into it, on 'rainy days' (financial rainy days that is).


So.... i think your straw poll puts me in the clear!

I'm 'on here moaning about things' (as you put it) because I care about people in my community and I believe they are being royally screwed. Bankers, politicians, bondholders, and developers who made GIGANTIC mistakes over the past 20 years are being REWARDED while people who played little or NO ROLE in this crisis are being punished!!!

What a shambles of a society -- morality gone out the window and replaced with a socio-pathological self interested malaise.

And I AGREE!!! There ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE REFUSING TO ACCEPT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY IN THIS MESS!!! -- bankers, bondholders, politicians, developers, CEOs in various financial institutions etc etc!!

I FULLY AGREE!!

Just because my financial situation is better than (maybe) many people in Ireland, does NOT mean I shirk my responsibility to FELLOW people in MY COMMUNITY!!

If it means that to YOU!!! Then I think that says plenty about YOUR moral fibre.

But DO NOT paint me with your own selfish greedy guts brush!

But my point is that if everyone had behaved like you and been prudent, then we wouldn't be in this mess. If everyone had educated themselves, restrained themselves from buying an overpriced house and stuck rigidly to what they could afford, our country would be fine. So, the general public do share in the blame.

That is the point I was making, nothing about my own moral fibre or anything else. By the way, words in capitals are considered equivalent to shouting and I don't like being shouted at.

lyndonjones

As someone said to me...

LIFE ISN'T FAIR!!

Listen to "Ordinary Man" - tells you all you need to know how businessmen and politicians deal with the working man.

People didn't realise the pain the cuts and taxation would inflict on them when this all started, they feeling it now, as we are all BUT

this is not the end of the pain and poverty people are being dealt.

You think when the CRISIS is over and "green shoots of prosperity" are seen that we will all return to a decent standard of living - no USC charge, no property tax, decrease in registration fees etc etc etc

They will remain in place.

LIFE ISN'T FAIR

Enda and his ilk are saying "Let them eat cake"

jasonc5432 wrote: »

Jeze ^^^ maybe not ALL OF US partied AFTER ALL!!

Jeze, ya think??

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE some of us have actually got the bloody right to argue that some people ARE being screwed who did NOT cause this crisis!

News-flash eh!

GOD!!!

kippy

Godge wrote: »

But my point is that if everyone had behaved like you and been prudent, then we wouldn't be in this mess. If everyone had educated themselves, restrained themselves from buying an overpriced house and stuck rigidly to what they could afford, our country would be fine. So, the general public do share in the blame.

That is the point I was making, nothing about my own moral fibre or anything else. By the way, words in capitals are considered equivalent to shouting and I don't like being shouted at.

Let's just extrapolate your point (and it's a point I would agree with somewhat as I said above) however you are taking it a bit too far.
If everyone obeyed the law, we wouldn't need the judiciary or law enforcement. However, plainly for whatever reasons, not everyone obeys the law. If's and buts are great however we are dealing in very harsh realities here.
The "judiciary" and "law enforcement" agents of the financial services industry in this country have failed miserably. Be it auditors (internal and external), regulators, heads of institutions.
If you just focus on Anglo or whatever nonsense it is called now (essentially the Bank that has started the house of cards falling) for a minute you'll see where a number of individuals and groups of individuals were plainly wrong (whether that be legally or morally) in what they did.
First of all we had a number of policiticians and heads of government come out in 08 when some murmurings were there that Anglo was well capitalised. Then you had Sean Quinn gamble a serious amount of money - lent to him by Anglo, on shares in the bank. This relatively complex share transaction was about to hit the buffers and with the aim of trying to keep the share price up and help out Quinn Anglo went to ten of their customers and offered them an almost "no lose" loan to buy quinns shares.....never mind the hiding of directors loans....etc
All the while auditors, and people with responsibility for such things in this society let it fly.
For a bank of "Systematic" importance to this country, there wasnt much governance, audit or indeed law applied to, or indeed followed in it.


To this of you wanting a "revolution of the mind" - indeed attitude, I would say this to you. I do agree somewhat. There is a bit of a love of the "cute hoor" in the Irish Psyche and there are sections of this society that are very slow to move against other sections.
I firmly believe that some of the individuals who are currently being "investigated" have so much dirt on other former and senior decision makers in this country, that they could take the lot down like a house of cards and as such will never be prosecuted. The Irish people do tend to let this stuff slide and I do see where you are coming from. Until we stop letting this slide and until we stop letting off the cute hoor that wont change much HOWEVER there are very obviously people more responsible than others for this mess - they NEED to be chased and judged like any other man or woman who breaks the law in this country.