17 Year old insurance on classic or commercial

ryst

Well lads,
For a long time now I've been browsing these pages tediously trying to get as much info as I could as regards insurance for 17 year olds, but I still have a few questions, so hopefully this thread will help others too. Right, to get started, I'll be 17 in September, and my parents have agreed to pay for the insurance if I buy the car. Obviously I want to keep the insurance cost as low as possible, so I'm trying to look into every option available.

1) As daft as this may sound, and I know many of you will remind me of countless reliability problems, can a 17 year old possibly get insured (as a named driver on a parents policy) to drive a classic car? I understand that there is a mileage cap for classic insurance, and I understand what being insured under a parents policy means, but as of now the question is purely hypothetical:p The reason I'm looking at classics is because of the cheaper insurance, but also the cheaper road tax.

2) Commercial insurance- I know that it is possible for a 17 year old to get insured on a commercial, but in which price range would this fall into? Like would it be worthwhile?


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated, the school bus costs €700 for me and my sister and my parents would much rather send this towards paying some of my insurance!

colm_mcm

You won't get classic insurance anyway due to your age.

ryst

colm_mcm wrote: »

You won't get classic insurance anyway due to your age.

Thanks man, needed a straight answer.

qz

Long in the short: bend over and get raped with insurance for the first few years whilst clocking up your NCB, and then use those years to your advantage when your want to get something a little bit sexy.

ryst

qz wrote: »

Long in the short: bend over and get raped with insurance for the first few years whilst clocking up your NCB, and then use those years to your advantage when your want to get something a little bit sexy.

Ha mate I figured that from all the other posts but there has to be some way of getting decent insurance, and to be honest I'll forego the NCB for a while to get a cheap premium now....but thanks nonetheless

Could anybody tell me if insurance on an estate would be any cheaper for a 17 yo?

-Corkie-

ryst wrote: »

Ha mate I figured that from all the other posts but there has to be some way of getting decent insurance, and to be honest I'll forego the NCB for a while to get a cheap premium now....but thanks nonetheless

Could anybody tell me if insurance on an estate would be any cheaper for a 17 yo?

The best thing to buy is a car that is not common to young lads as in not a Civic if you catch my drift.

ryst

-Corkie- wrote: »

The best thing to buy is a car that is not common to young lads as in not a Civic if you catch my drift.

Aha I thought that, until I got quoted (on my own name albeit) €2700 for a 1999 1.0 VW Polo...
It's absolutely bloddy shambolic.

-Corkie-

ryst wrote: »

Aha I thought that, until I got quoted (on my own name albeit) €2700 for a 1999 1.0 VW Polo...
It's absolutely bloddy shambolic.

Jesus thats crazy. Did you try Britton and Quinn..

colm_mcm

What's shambolic is that you would be using this as a means of transport for you and your sister with no experience of driving.

€2700 to cover the world against a driver with no experience or full licensed driver there for tuition seems fair.

challengemaster

ryst wrote: »

Aha I thought that, until I got quoted (on my own name albeit) €2700 for a 1999 1.0 VW Polo...
It's absolutely bloddy shambolic.

That's the sort of stuff you're looking at tbh, should be able to get it down to 2k but in around that will be the cheapest you'll find.

you are better off in the long run just taking the hit now

ryst

challengemaster wrote: »

That's the sort of stuff you're looking at tbh, should be able to get it down to 2k but in around that will be the cheapest you'll find.

you are better off in the long run just taking the hit now

I don't think I'll be any better off in the long run as I'm not paying for it this year, and in the next year I hope to have a job to actually pay it myself, so I'm not too bothered with the NCB yet to be honest but thanks

Apprentice Mechanic

Have you tried Zuirch,i am with them for the past two years,there prize couldn't be beat elsewhere,and also it came down €800 six months passing my driving & the passed my driving test I got €250 back so happy days

swhyte027

Listen op to wat every one is trying to say to you as we have all tried things like this when we were younger and Notting works the fact is pay hugh money now and make sure u get the policy in your own name and start to build up a Ncb it's the only wAy to help yourself.you can't be the system it is wat it is so stop trying .p.s wish I had parents that should of payed my insurence when I started driving so count ur self really lucky there

oldyouth

What everyone else has said. With regard to your comment on commercial insurance, you need to have an occupation that necessitates the use of a commercial vehicle to get commercial insurance

ryst

Apprentice Mechanic wrote: »

Have you tried Zuirch,i am with them for the past two years,there prize couldn't be beat elsewhere,and also it came down €800 six months passing my driving & the passed my driving test I got €250 back so happy days

Will do good man.

ryst

swhyte027 wrote: »

Listen op to wat every one is trying to say to you as we have all tried things like this when we were younger and Notting works the fact is pay hugh money now and make sure u get the policy in your own name and start to build up a Ncb it's the only wAy to help yourself.you can't be the system it is wat it is so stop trying .p.s wish I had parents that should of payed my insurence when I started driving so count ur self really lucky there

Starting to think that way now alright. And they're paying my insurance rather than €700 euro for the school bus and so that they don't have to be my taxi service, I'm doing stuff 5/7 nights during the week, 20k+ round trip usually.

Guy:Incognito

-Corkie- wrote: »

Jesus thats crazy. ..

Not really. At 18 with a full licence on a 1.2 Clio it was costign me IRP£2800

Sobanek

ryst wrote: »

Aha I thought that, until I got quoted (on my own name albeit) €2700 for a 1999 1.0 VW Polo...
It's absolutely bloddy shambolic.

€2676 for Third Party, Fire & Theft on a 2000 Volvo S40 1.6
17 Year Old, Learner Permit, No previous experience or NCB.
Have a look at them Volvos, the 1.8 S40 is cheaper to insure than a 1.4 Golf in most cases.

Timmaay

Does being insured as a named driver, under one of your parents not work out considerably cheaper anymore? Its what I did for my 1st few years with a car, I was with FBD, and they offered two years named driver experience as one full years NCB when I took out my own policy.

Apprentice Mechanic

ryst wrote: »

Will do good man.

Sometimes the colour of your car/van can vary the price of insaurance

ryst

colm_mcm wrote: »

What's shambolic is that you would be using this as a means of transport for you and your sister with no experience of driving.

€2700 to cover the world against a driver with no experience or full licensed driver there for tuition seems fair.

I understand 100% with what you're saying, and the stereotype sadly is justified, but I have to disagree somewhat because in fairness now we all have to start somewhere, and I'm sure at one stage in your life you too were an unexperienced driver in less than ideal circumstances perhaps due to your financial situation, so apologies if I anger you in any way because I will be a new unexperienced driver.

I will not be driving without a qualified driver without my full license to make this clear and at no point have I stated otherwise.

colm_mcm

My understanding is that you need a qualified driver that has had a full license for 2 full years. I may be wrong.

166man

colm_mcm wrote: »

My understanding is that you need a qualified driver that has had a full license for 2 full years. I may be wrong.

You are correct on that one Colm. OP if it was me I would get the full licence and turn 18 and then get your insurance. If you're stopped by Gardai on a learner permit with no fully licensed driver with you I think you could be in a spot if bother.

Top Dog

oldyouth wrote: »

What everyone else has said. With regard to your comment on commercial insurance, you need to have an occupation that necessitates the use of a commercial vehicle to get commercial insurance

Whatever about everything else in this thread - the above is simply NOT true. You may be asked to fill out a form with a relevant occupation for commercial MOTOR TAX, but there are no such restrictions on the insurance of a commercial vehicle.

OP have you tried getting any quotes on something simple enough like a Citroen Xsara van, Berlingo or anything along those lines? They're slow, only have 2 seats (so you're less likely to have a bunch of mates along encouraging you to do silly things in the eyes of insurance companies) and if you buy something that already has tax on it you're away on a hack

If I could go back to when I started driving then I'd definitely be looking into a small commercial van or a commercial 4x4

oldyouth

Top Dog wrote: »

Whatever about everything else in this thread - the above is simply NOT true. You may be asked to fill out a form with a relevant occupation for commercial MOTOR TAX, but there are no such restrictions on the insurance of a commercial vehicle.

I stand by my statement. I haven't said that it isn't legal, I'm just pointing out that insurers will not (usually) offer a quotation to somebody on a commercial vehicle unless their occupation is one that would suggest it is necessary. Try asking an insurer for a quote on a Berlingo and tell them that you are an office worker, student, nurse etc and you will be refused.

Mully_2011

ryst wrote: »

I understand 100% with what you're saying, and the stereotype sadly is justified, but I have to disagree somewhat because in fairness now we all have to start somewhere, and I'm sure at one stage in your life you too were an unexperienced driver in less than ideal circumstances perhaps due to your financial situation, so apologies if I anger you in any way because I will be a new unexperienced driver.

I will not be driving without a qualified driver without my full license to make this clear and at no point have I stated otherwise.

so then in that case you'd be better off on the bus I presume your folks arent going to sit in the passenger seat while you drive to school.

my advice to you and I done this myself and it worked out cheap enough from an insurance point of view.

Get as many driving lessons as you possibly can pass your test and most insurers will give you a years ncb if you do something like 20 lessons when I done it my first years insurance went from a quote of 3300 TPFT to 2000 euro fully comp at 18 on a Civic

Top Dog

oldyouth wrote: »

Try asking an insurer for a quote on a Berlingo and tell them that you are an office worker, student, nurse etc and you will be refused.

I didn't try for a Berlingo, but I had zero issues insuring a commercial 4x4 with my job being a factory worker (I had a choice of companies with whom I could have taken out a policy). I also know a receiptionist, hair dresser, caretaker, accountant and many other people who do not have careers that would need a commercial at all - the only problem any of them have ever had is when it came to motor tax.

SGKM

I had the same problem when I was 18 - the best deal I could get was €3,500 to get added to my mom's policy (1.4 Megane), I wouldn't have had a chance of getting my own car so I went down the commercial route - this was back in 2004 so I think insurance for young drivers has come down substantially since.

I got a 2.8 Pajero and paid €2,250 fully comp on a provisional license - looking back that was still silly money but better than €3,500 as a named driver. I originally had it insured through my uncles farm but then switched the policy into my own name in the 2nd or 3rd year to build a NCB - I was a student with a private policy insuring a commercial jeep. I did a serious amount of investigation into this at the time and found that FBD and Quinn were the only ones who offered this. I don't know where people are going saying that you have to have a trade to insure a commercial - I had mine insured for 3 years in my name.

One thing to watch if you do go down this route is that it's a pain not being able to carry more than 1 passengers - I used to carry mates in the back and was always sh1tting it, I was so lucky I never had an accident or got caught.

oldyouth

Again, I never said that people don't have these policies. It was a very popular thing to do a few years ago and, in insurance terms, what you hold, you get to keep. These days, it is not something that insurers (generally) are prepared to offer.

The problem they envisage is the carriage of passengers in the back, for which the driver/insured has responsibility for in the event of an accident.

MagicMarker

ryst wrote: »

Aha I thought that, until I got quoted (on my own name albeit) €2700 for a 1999 1.0 VW Polo...
It's absolutely bloddy shambolic.

Be thankful it's that low, a few years back you'd pay almost double that.

Otis Driftwood

OP,you will be lucky to get it for less than €2500 quid on a private.

Commercial insurance will likely cost you much the same but commercial policies have much less benefits than a private policy.

The best thing for you in the long run is to take the hit now and start earning your own no claims bonus.

Thats the only way to significantly reduce your insurance til you turn 25.

BronsonTB

Top Dog wrote: »

I didn't try for a Berlingo, but I had zero issues insuring a commercial 4x4 with my job being a factory worker (I had a choice of companies with whom I could have taken out a policy). I also know a receiptionist, hair dresser, caretaker, accountant and many other people who do not have careers that would need a commercial at all - the only problem any of them have ever had is when it came to motor tax.

Update: 2011
Yes there are people doing that but getting less & less as it's just not worth the hassle & will cost you in the long run WHEN caught. It's the RISK if you get stopped by the gaurds & they are of the opinion you are not using the van for commerical purposes & you can't prove otherwise. Then you are in a spot of bother, they confiscate the van & you end up out of pocket with a nice big fine + paying the correct tax. Not worth it starting off as you'll just mark your card with the local gaurds but it's your choice, just had to give you fair warning.
(Source: Donegal Garda check vans for tax purposes on wkends)

turbodiesel

Top Dog wrote: »

Whatever about everything else in this thread - the above is simply NOT true. You may be asked to fill out a form with a relevant occupation for commercial MOTOR TAX, but there are no such restrictions on the insurance of a commercial vehicle.

OP have you tried getting any quotes on something simple enough like a Citroen Xsara van, Berlingo or anything along those lines? They're slow, only have 2 seats (so you're less likely to have a bunch of mates along encouraging you to do silly things in the eyes of insurance companies) and if you buy something that already has tax on it you're away on a hack

If I could go back to when I started driving then I'd definitely be looking into a small commercial van or a commercial 4x4

But if he's carrying his sister in the passenger seat where does the fully licenced driver sit.....

turbodiesel

Otis Driftwood wrote: »

OP,you will be lucky to get it for less than €2500 quid on a private.

Commercial insurance will likely cost you much the same but commercial policies have much less benefits than a private policy.

The best thing for you in the long run is to take the hit now and start earning your own no claims bonus.

Thats the only way to significantly reduce your insurance til you turn 25.

And it's always been a ripp off.

My first insurance quote aged 18 in 1988 was 3000 punts in a 1981 hiace petrol that stood me 300 quid.

Even recently enough. Went back taxiing in 2005 aged 35 with a clean licence , M/bike NCB of 8 yrs, named driver NCB of 8 years but neither could be taken into consideration as the taxi was classed as a commercial policy. AXA quoted 5700 and i ended up paying 4200 with Hibernian on a '99 passat. I know taxi usage means that your are on the road longer than someone commuting 4 hrs a day but that was taking the piss. Taxi insurance is down to a grand now and dropped immediately by 20% when io passed my IAM test in 2006.

I do seem to rember something back a while ago about L platers getting a beetle for there first years or two to keep costs down or a car. Either that or an old type Mini or Renault 4.

Might be a case of making up a car on paper and paying the insurance to get an NCB out of the way. Even if it meant getting insured on paper in the back of beyond over here or with a relative in the UK.

L-M

A friend of mine has a full time policy on a 73 Beetle for just under a grand, he's 20 and has no other car insured. With Axa IIRC

corktina

theres no way round paying up. Lots of people have tried and the Insurance Companies have seen all the angles.

BronsonTB

Limerick man wrote: »

A friend of mine has a full time policy on a 73 Beetle for just under a grand, he's 20 and has no other car insured. With Axa IIRC

How long does he have the policy?
Did he have other driving exprience before taking the policy out?
Has he a high excess on it? Is it 3rd party only?

He could have 3 years NCD on a full lic built up at this stage.
Each case is so different giving an example like that is hard for the OP to relate to as he is just 17.

Stinicker

Farming is the best occupation to use for a commercial vehicle, it is a 24/7 - 365 occupation and you can easily invent any excuse for being anywhere at any time by being a farmer to defeat the guards on the old business hours one. Just make sure you have a pair of wellies and some farming paraphernalia in the van.

A friend of mine was stopped one night by two guards who decided he was not using the van for "business purposes" and were going to seize the van, he said grand so lads and went into the van and pulled out wellingtons coated in sh1te and a few ropes and calving jack, and says "well so guards as ye think I have nothing to do" then ye'll be driving me over there and in across the fields because I've a cow due to calf tonight and that calf will be worth €1,100 below in the mart next fall.

A plumber can have burst pipes in the middle of the night too etc.

L-M

BronsonTB wrote: »

How long does he have the policy?
Did he have other driving exprience before taking the policy out?
Has he a high excess on it? Is it 3rd party only?

He could have 3 years NCD on a full lic built up at this stage.
Each case is so different giving an example like that is hard for the OP to relate to as he is just 17.

Sorry, I wasn't necessarily referring to the OP's case. He had 2 years experience previous AFAIK, no high excess and it's fully comp.

oldyouth

Stinicker wrote: »

A plumber can have burst pipes in the middle of the night too etc.

Yep, but highly unlikely coming out of a golf course on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Gardai set up a checkpoint outside the gates of one here a couple of years ago and did as few lads for tax

Top Dog

BronsonTB wrote: »

Update: 2011
Yes there are people doing that but getting less & less as it's just not worth the hassle & will cost you in the long run WHEN caught. It's the RISK if you get stopped by the gaurds & they are of the opinion you are not using the van for commerical purposes & you can't prove otherwise. Then you are in a spot of bother, they confiscate the van & you end up out of pocket with a nice big fine + paying the correct tax. Not worth it starting off as you'll just mark your card with the local gaurds but it's your choice, just had to give you fair warning.
(Source: Donegal Garda check vans for tax purposes on wkends)

With regards motor tax - yes. But I thought this thread was about insurance for a young fella? Motor tax is another thread.

turbodiesel wrote: »

But if he's carrying his sister in the passenger seat where does the fully licenced driver sit.....

Jeez - get a Peugeot Expert - 3 seats up front - do I have to think of everything? :pac:

What I'm more curious about, is where is the OP going to find a full licence driver thats going to want to go on the school run? Odds are that the rest of the lads in his class are in the same predicament so what does that leave - car pool with a teacher?

ryst

Right, didn't realise that the fully licensed driver was enforced as strictly as it apparently is, but this should probably be a worry as it's illegal to begin off with.
so it looks like I will just have to use the bus until my full license comes through but I'm afraid there's no hope in hell I'll be able to afford a policy under my own name, so back to square one, but nonetheless thanks for the responses & help.

LoveMySamoyed

Sobanek wrote: »

€2676 for Third Party, Fire & Theft on a 2000 Volvo S40 1.6
17 Year Old, Learner Permit, No previous experience or NCB.
Have a look at them Volvos, the 1.8 S40 is cheaper to insure than a 1.4 Golf in most cases.

What insurer quoted you that?

Sobanek

LoveMySamoyed wrote: »

What insurer quoted you that?

That was a long time ago and the insurance went up since then, but it was AXA.

Henry Ford III

Limerick man wrote: »

A friend of mine has a full time policy on a 73 Beetle for just under a grand, he's 20 and has no other car insured. With Axa IIRC

From the AXA Ireland site...

"You must reside in the ROI and have a separate vehicle for everyday personal or business use. Other terms & conditions apply."

Hmmmmm.

Jordan5372

Hi Mate. I am insured through a broker called insure.ie and the insurance company is asgard. I payed 1800 euro for my first year with no experience on my own policy, this way i am building up my NCB and is better in the long run.

I drive a 1.2 1998 corsa b

I hope this can be of help


Thanks.