ok to name a shady 2nd hand dealer on here?

cruhoortwunk

Had a bad experience with dealer yesterday-is it ok to put their name here?

I looked at the car last week, and 2 of the main selling points he kept pointing out were that he would run it through an NCT before he sold it to us, and that he would give us a 12 month warranty. His price was 8,950.
I called him about 4 days later to put in an offer of 8,200.
H called me back later to accept. No mention of any issues with NCT or warranty.
I went to do the deal then yesterday evening, and he waited til all was done before he sprung a suprise on me that the nct had already been done a year earlier (menaing I have ot do it again a year earlier), and that he couldn't give us the 12 month warrenty for that price.
No mention of either of these til the last minute. We were after going out there on the bus, and it was late in the evening, so we accepted it, although we weren't happy.
I would like to name him here as one to avoid.

EPM

Not usually.

PM me more info and we'll see.

In fairness to the dealer if the NCT is not due he can't run it through, about the warranty, if you offer a price that much below (€750) the price he stated in person over the phone you should really be clarifying the terms and conditions.

CamperMan

if you were not happy with the deal you should have got the bus back home and told the dealer where to go

CamperMan

CamperMan wrote: »

if you were not happy with the deal you should have got the bus back home and told the dealer where to go

Indeed, OP you gave the chap over €8000 even though you weren't happy with the terms of the deal, it might be the dealer's fault you're not happy but it's not his fault you threw €8200 at him.

Saab Ed

I've got one .......

EPM

From Pm's with the OP the dealer cannot be named.

It's an unfortunate situation but if people could inform the OP of their legal rights, minimum requirements on a sale etc. there is no reason to close it.

They OP made a mistake buying the car so let's not dwell on that bit.

bazz26

I don't really think this type of dealing is shady unless he changed the terms after you had agreed a deal at a certain price and left a deposit. I think it is more a show of shrewdness and experience on behalf of the dealer. He knew you were overly keen on the car, arriving by bus to buy it so less likely to walk away empty handed, so sprung this on you at the last moment.

You should have counter acted his late move by saying you will go away and have a long hard think about it or you could not do the deal on those terms. I bet if you turned on your heels and walked towards the door he would probably have called you back.

kildare.17hmr

Doubt there is much you can do tbh. I used to hate dealing with people like the op who changed their mind or decided they werent happy after the deal was done and they left with the car, you should have spoke up at the time in fairness.

With regards to the waranty maybe you could offer to pay the difference to upgrade to the 12 months? is it a warranty company he is dealing with, like mapfre or car protect? if so it shouldnt cost much to get it up to 12 months and even if he has put it through already they will upgrade it for him

Gary ITR

To be fair you had the choice to walk away. Also you were the first person to change the terms by offering a lower price, it's part of bargaining

cruhoortwunk

Fair enough I could have walked away. I should have been more suspicious of someone working as a 2nd hand car salesman. Many of his type have worked tirelessly to get the reputation they now hold.
All I will say is that they are based in <snip>
He also promised to valet the car, and didn't. This wasn't obvious in the dark.

Chriscl1

Im curious if you just got the nct disc in the window or the whole cert??

cruhoortwunk

He gave me the whole cert. He said he only found out that day that it already had the NCT (BS)

EPM

No details of location OP. I will delete this thread if there is anymore. I have outlined my opinions via PM already.

teednab-el

In future you should always bring an experienced person(s) with you when buying a second hand car. I always bring my father who has bought a lot of second hand cars in his time and two local mechanics who are friends of mine when buying. They will offer me advice if I'm unsure about something and I wont be forced to buy the car straight away from the dealer. The more experienced people you bring the better, gives you better options when deciding if the car is the right buy or not. In the end of the day its your money you are throwing away so make sure you are not wasting it foolishly. If you aren't convinced about something its better to walk away than make a decision, plenty more cars out there.

mickdw

Terrible behaviour by the dealer IMO. He should have said, he would do the deal with reduced warranty at your price. Still, you should have walked away. I wouldnt like to be going back to that guy for an expensive warranty repair. How much warranty did he actually give?

MugMugs

Gary ITR wrote: »

To be fair you had the choice to walk away. Also you were the first person to change the terms by offering a lower price, it's part of bargaining

So if the OP waited until he had signed to change the price he was willing to hand over, that would be fair too? Nah, it wouldn't.

Op - what year is the car ?

oregano

It was definitely bad form of the dealer not to clarify everything on the phone. He accepted the 8200 bid, but should there and then have said "At that price I'm making X profit and cannot financially stand over the car should any issues arise. And as a bonus it already has an NCT!" As a used car dealer I often get offered a lot less than the asking price. I point out that if they're not bidding enough, then I'm not offering the initial package. You can generally come to an understanding. Did he give you any warranties at all?

mathepac

oregano wrote: »

... but should there and then have said "At that price I'm making X profit and cannot financially stand over the car should any issues arise. And as a bonus it already has an NCT!" As a used car dealer I often get offered a lot less than the asking price. ...

Clearly you and your colleagues do not understand Irish consumer law, which is partially summarised here.

"Under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980, anything you buy from a retailer must be:

• of merchantable quality
• fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable
• as described, whether the description is part of the advertising or wrapping, on a label, or something said by the salesperson.

When you buy goods from a retailer, you make a contract with him. He agrees to provide certain goods to you for a certain price. If your purchase turns out to be faulty, the retailer, not the manufacturer, is responsible to you and must sort out your complaint. ..."

http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_knowrights.html

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/index.html

A warranty offered by a retailer is not in place of the consumer's rights and does not effect them; it may be offered as an addition but not as a substitution.

If a consumer's car breaks down 100 mtrs from a used-car dealer's lot, then the dealer must remedy the situation, irrespective of the "warranty" offered because a reasonable person would expect a car to last longer than 100 mtrs from the point of purchase.

This nonsense of selling so-called "trade cars" to consumers with no warranty is also illegal as it seeks to subvert the purchaser's legal right to recourse in the event of a breakdown, cloning, cut-and-shut, illegal import, pre-existing finance, etc.

cruhoortwunk

Good to see a few people actually recognise that this dealers methods are underhand at best.
It's on '07 car. He gave me 2 months warranty, but if I do have a problem in that time, I can see this dealer squirming his way out of it

cruhoortwunk

RoverJames wrote: »

In fairness to the dealer if the NCT is not due he can't run it through, about the warranty, if you offer a price that much below (€750) the price he stated in person over the phone you should really be clarifying the terms and conditions.

I'm not saying that he should have put it through the nct early.
I'm saying he knew well the nct status, and even if he didn't, he could easily have contacted me to inform me of it before I went to do the deal that evening

MugMugs

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

Good to see a few people actually recognise that this dealers methods are underhand at best.
It's on '07 car. He gave me 2 months warranty, but if I do have a problem in that time, I can see this dealer squirming his way out of it

07 So the NCT expires 2013 ?

mathepac

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

...
It's on '07 car. He gave me 2 months warranty, but if I do have a problem in that time, I can see this dealer squirming his way out of it

That sort of ludicrous warranty would indicate to me that he believes the car does not meet the legal criteria of being :

• of merchantable quality (safe and durable enough in order to be offered for sale)
  
• fit for its normal purpose, and reasonably durable (capable of being driven within the manufacturer's specification, and capable of lasting 3 or 4 years at least)
  
• as described, whether the description is part of the advertising or wrapping, on a label, or something said by the salesperson.

If it fails any of these conditions, then sue the dealer. See the first link in my post above and also see -

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_ireland.html

By the way, someone who advertises "private sale" cars on a regular basis on websites, paper publications, etc, meets the criteria to be classed as a dealer. They are merely fiddling VAT etc and attempting to deprive buyers of their rights.

coylemj

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

He also promised to valet the car, and didn't. This wasn't obvious in the dark.

It's not his fault that the sun sets early in the winter, you went out in darkness, handed over the dosh and accepted the car, now you're complaining because of what you can see in daylight.

cruhoortwunk wrote: »

It's on '07 car.

So the NCT was done this year and is not due again until 2013.

mickob16

Would there not be a "cooling off period" whereby the OP has say 7 days to change his mind.Im almost sure that i read that in the small print when i bought a car before.Im probably wrong but it might be worth checking.

cadaliac

The op was tricked.

The dealer should have informed the OP of the short warranty when the new price was agreed.

kildare.17hmr

just reading the first post again and just want to clarify something op. You said the nct was already done which would mean you have to do it a year earlier. Not true. It has to be done on a certain date so even if it had no nct and he put it through it would still have had to be done at the same time

kildare.17hmr

cadaliac wrote: »

The op was tricked.

The dealer should have informed the OP of the short warranty when the new price was agreed.

he still could of walked away or negotiated for more warranty. Was he Tricked? no. He Didnt question it while he was stood infront of the dealer. His problem.

Smartguy

The dealer is being fairly sharp here. While I am all for buyer beware, the purchaser is entitled to feel as if a fast one has been pulled. The dealer is a professional and should act like one.

kildare.17hmr

there is no buyer beware in this case

Gary ITR

Smartguy wrote: »

The dealer is being fairly sharp here. While I am all for buyer beware, the purchaser is entitled to feel as if a fast one has been pulled. The dealer is a professional and should act like one.

I agree the dealer seems ropey, the point I was making earlier was that the buyer knew this BEFORE he handed over the 8k. If I thought a dealer was shady before handing him that amount of money I'd have walked away. There's no way I'd hand somebody that amount of money if I had reservations

Smartguy

Fair enough, I don't think the buyer has any comeback, just that it is bad form. I suppose this is why 2nd car dealers get such a bad rep.

Gary ITR

Smartguy wrote: »

Fair enough, I don't think the buyer has any comeback, just that it is bad form. I suppose this is why 2nd car dealers get such a bad rep.

There's no doubt that the dealer is an arse, but these dealers are still in business because people still insist on giving them money.

I work in a garage (repairs/performance stuff) and some of the things we see going on within the trade are scary but yet customers still give the shady guys money because they might be saving a small few quid.

kildare.17hmr

Gary ITR wrote: »

I work in a garage (repairs/performance stuff) and some of the things we see going on within the trade are scary but yet customers still give the shady guys money because they might be saving a small few quid.

funny you say that lad i remember one customer of ours who got some work done by another garage and got bloody robbed. He gave out stink for months about them and ended up buying his next car from them!

coylemj

Let's just remind ourselves that the dealer was selling an 07 car which must have done it's first NCT in 2011, he then tells the OP that he'll put it though the NCT even though it's not due for two years ('he kept pointing out that he would run it through an NCT before he sold it to us') so he knew he was telling bare-faced lies.

Everything else he said needs to be taken in this context i.e. he's a gangster and you can't believe a word he said. How anyone would accept a four year old car with only a two month warranty when buying from a dealer is beyond me.

Just imagine you're talking to a salesman and he comes out with somethng like this....

This car is four years old, it passed it's first NCT this year, it's been fully serviced by a careful owner who has been a customer of mine for years, I'll sell it you to for xxx but I'm only offering a two month warranty.

dharn

just reading the op again he told you the terms of the deal before you handed over the money, so imo you accepted the deal ,too late giving out now ,the only other thing that occurs to me is that you have a statutory right to 3 months warranty buying from a dealer

Henry Ford III

dharn wrote: »

just reading the op again he told you the terms of the deal before you handed over the money, so imo you accepted the deal ,too late giving out now ,the only other thing that occurs to me is that you have a statutory right to 3 months warranty buying from a dealer

No you don't.

mathepac

dharn wrote: »

just reading the op again he told you the terms of the deal before you handed over the money, so imo you accepted the deal ,too late giving out now ,the only other thing that occurs to me is that you have a statutory right to 3 months warranty buying from a dealer

All incorrect. As I pointed out in my posts above a dealer cannot specify or attach terms to a sale that try to reduce the purchaser's legal rights.

There is no right in consumer law to a specific warranty period. Again a purchaser's and seller's rights & obligations are defined in the links I provided above.

cruhoortwunk

My point with the NCT is that it was done last November, with 8000km less on the clock. He gave me the false impression it was being run through now, which would mean it would be in decent shape.

<snip>

EPM

Right OP, you've had some of your last post edited. I have warned about revealing the dealers identity on thread and via PM.

If you continually refuse to heed warnings you leave me no choice but to close this thread. This isn't the place to name and shame.