Chasing sheep

slowburner

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything relevant.

Here's my problem. I have two, 20 month year old black labs. Both are showing signs of being top class dogs, with great noses.

The thing is, if I bring them out to the fields, off the lead, I am afraid that they will chase sheep. They have done this once but came back when called, although too slowly. I'm just terrified that they might end up too far from me and God alone knows what might happen.
They would be shot in an instant, if they were seen near sheep.

Have I left it too late to bring them out shooting?
Any advice on what to do would be very, very welcome - It would be a crying shame to waste these dogs' talents.

kildare.17hmr

Had a similar problem with my pointer and was advised to get a shock collar. couldnt get one at the time and the dog did it again and wouldnt listen once he got far away, he got a smack when he did come back and i shouted at him, never happened again

landkeeper

don't take the chance at this time of year almost all ewes are in lamb the dog even running /chasing them is enough to cause them abort or reabsorb lambs

go find a farmer who has some sheep and ask him if he has a ram or dry ewes that you could walk your dog through on a long lead every time he goes to show interest chastise him and give him a good hard tug on the lead
20mnths is very late for doing this it would have been alot easier to instill in the dogs when they were much younger
good luck

LetFly

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Had a similar problem with my pointer and was advised to get a shock collar. couldnt get one at the time and the dog did it again and wouldnt listen once he got far away, he got a smack when he did come back and i shouted at him, never happened again

This might have worked for your dog, but as a general rule I wouldn't advise this as a solution. Giving the dog a smack when he gets back AFTER the event will usually lead to the dog associating the smack with him coming back and could very well lead to him being even slower to return the next time. If you look at it logically...he has had a great time chasing...then he thinks...oh theres Kildare calling me..I better go back...hey! I came back didn't I...whats that for???..feck you if you think I'll come back the next time...way more fun out there chasing sheep. The only way a smack would be an effective deterent in my opinion would be if you got out after him and actually caught him the act of chasing...a dog doesn't have the reasoning power to associate what he was doing a few mins ago with what is happening right now.
Much better to get the dog used to livestock as the last poster suggested.

Deerspotter

I'd second the opinions here, a field with sheep (not lambing) a willing farmer and a shock collar.
Hitting the dog when he comes back, could be a mixed signal, as perhaps he is being hit for coming back!

kildare.17hmr

yeah i understand what ya,s are saying. Forgot to add after that we went out to my mates farm and stuck him in with a couple of rams in a field who chased him then in a shed wit a ewe who had 2 lambs. A couple of head buts from her and he payed no more attention to them

LetFly

No bother Kildare....I just posted as a little warning of what could happen if the dog gets a smack when it gets back after the deed is done...not ment as a dig or anything...just a caution to others

johngalway

I'd caution against using rams, they could kill or seriously injure a dog in one go.

charlie10

my pointer doesnt do it anymore but a friend of mine has a pointer and one day we were out and he kept chasing cows , i told him to get it sorted and i hadnt the words out of my mouth when the cow drew a kick back at him and turned him upside down. problem sorted but now he shows a bit of fear and it stops him hunting ,my lad wouldnt bat an eye lid at them, because he knows the word NO means NO:D

Tackleberry.

Goats where my teachers, and when he learned not to run the goats using a shock collar the sheep were no bother. Hares then are same training but another story....
Totaly agree that you cant correct the dog when he returns after getting it wrong what ever it is, you ned to get running after the dog roaring and shouting aloud as you can dog soon wonders what to hell !!!! but realy shock coller is the biz if your not a fast runner..
Find attached a lab called Fenton chasing deer....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

Christ i cant stop laughing.. he really needed a shock collar.

slowburner

Hard not to laugh alright, especially when the guy filming chuckles at the end.
But in all seriousness, it does show the sort of distress dogs are capable of producing - to both man and beast.


I'd often been in two minds about giving out to the dogs for coming back.
It can be hard to congratulate them when they return after disobeying but I know it's the right thing to do.
My last dog wouldn't even look at a sheep, let alone chase one. Maybe having two evokes some sort of pack instinct.

There's been some sound advice here and I thank you all.

wirehairmax

+1 with the shock collar. If they so much as look sideways at a sheep, burst em. Make sure its turned up to the last so they really feel it. Trust me I speak from a bad experience.

Octopus

Landkeepers advice worked for me during the summer with my young lab.

Walked her along the edge of a sheep field on the lead, the slightest glance at the sheep and she got a sharp tug on the lead and a loud No!.

she's no interest in sheep at all.

Eats every strawberry and gooseberry in the garden though, don't know what to do about that?

Birdnuts

Firm dicipline needed here - my three know that sheep are off limits to the extent that I can walk acoss the Curragh through flocks of sheep and the dogs won't look sideways. In any case I would never hunt in a field containing sheep - its just not worth it if things go wrong(same goes for horses). If you can't trust a dog around sheep then stay well away from any fields containing them - there is serious potential to bring down a world of pain on yourself otherwise. I'm glad to say my system of dicpline has not blunted their instincts and they are still as keen as ever on scenting deer, hunting fox, rabbit etc:)

Ronnie Beck

slowburner wrote: »

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything relevant.

Here's my problem. I have two, 20 month year old black labs. Both are showing signs of being top class dogs, with great noses.

The thing is, if I bring them out to the fields, off the lead, I am afraid that they will chase sheep. They have done this once but came back when called, although too slowly. I'm just terrified that they might end up too far from me and God alone knows what might happen.
They would be shot in an instant, if they were seen near sheep.

Have I left it too late to bring them out shooting?
Any advice on what to do would be very, very welcome - It would be a crying shame to waste these dogs' talents.

As was said its better to introduce them at a young age but if you have them well trained to a stop whistle / hup etc. it shouldn't be a problem. If there steady to a dummy they should be steady to game or livestock. just start slowly on the lead if your nervous and work from there. dont rush it. Its a good thing that they came back when you called them to be positive about the whole thing. They'll learn quick enough as long as you correct the thought or the sideways glance as wirehairmax put it. it's not as though farmers guard there sheep 24/7 with a loaded rifle.:)

It helps if you know the area where your hunting well. Shallow ditches can be dodgy if sheep are lying in them you can walk right in in top of them and before you know it your dog and sheep are tearing across the field.

As far as bringing them out shooting its better to start late if you've been training them well. makes for a better steadier dog in the long run. You should try and get them out a few times before the end of the season. A dummy launcher would be handy if you haven't shot over them yet.

wirehairmax wrote: »

+1 with the shock collar. If they so much as look sideways at a sheep, burst em. Make sure its turned up to the last so they really feel it. Trust me I speak from a bad experience.

Do people actually use a shock collar in this country:mad:. Thought that was for redneck americans. You shouldn't be encouraging this type of nonsense just because you didn't bother to train your dog.

blackstairsboy

This lad might be able to give ye some advice on the topic! Most of you have probaley seen it already but it is as funny as f**k.:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIQr07CAnJE

kildare.17hmr

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

As was said its better to introduce them at a young age but if you have them well trained to a stop whistle / hup etc. it shouldn't be a problem. If there steady to a dummy they should be steady to game or livestock. just start slowly on the lead if your nervous and work from there. dont rush it. Its a good thing that they came back when you called them to be positive about the whole thing. They'll learn quick enough as long as you correct the thought or the sideways glance as wirehairmax put it. it's not as though farmers guard there sheep 24/7 with a loaded rifle.:)

It helps if you know the area where your hunting well. Shallow ditches can be dodgy if sheep are lying in them you can walk right in in top of them and before you know it your dog and sheep are tearing across the field.

As far as bringing them out shooting its better to start late if you've been training them well. makes for a better steadier dog in the long run. You should try and get them out a few times before the end of the season. A dummy launcher would be handy if you haven't shot over them yet.

Good advice

BUT

Do people actually use a shock collar in this country:mad:. Thought that was for redneck americans. You shouldn't be encouraging this type of nonsense just because you didn't bother to train your dog

Thats the kind of **** that belongs over in animal and pet issues not the hunting forum:rolleyes:

slowburner

Octopus wrote: »

Landkeepers advice worked for me during the summer with my young lab.

Walked her along the edge of a sheep field on the lead, the slightest glance at the sheep and she got a sharp tug on the lead and a loud No!.

she's no interest in sheep at all.

Eats every strawberry and gooseberry in the garden though, don't know what to do about that?

Stop her from eating them. Unfortunately, seeds are bad for dogs and both contain seeds. I had to stop my own pair from picking blackberries with me even though they felt it was their duty.
Animal and pet issues answer, I know

slowburner

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Ronnie Beck wrote: »

Good advice

BUT

Thats the kind of **** that belongs over in animal and pet issues not the hunting forum:rolleyes:

In all fairness, if it can be done effectively without a shock collar, then that is the way I would prefer to do it.
There is a strong bond of trust between me and the dogs and I wouldn't like to damage that.
To be honest, these dogs would lay down their lives for me and my family - I am certain of that.
I think it is a question of understanding between master and dog - I just haven't had the time this season to impress this understanding on the dogs. I think they just don't know that sheep are out of bounds - yet.
But I have faith that they will.
If more humane methods don't work, then I either have to consider the shock collar or reconsider keeping the dogs at all.
Again, thanks to you all for the sound advice. I appreciate it.

kildare.17hmr

slowburner wrote: »

In all fairness, if it can be done effectively without a shock collar, then that is the way I would prefer to do it.
There is a strong bond of trust between me and the dogs and I wouldn't like to damage that.
To be honest, these dogs would lay down their lives for me and my family - I am certain of that.
I think it is a question of understanding between master and dog - I just haven't had the time this season to impress this understanding on the dogs. I think they just don't know that sheep are out of bounds - yet.
But I have faith that they will.
If more humane methods don't work, then I either have to consider the shock collar or reconsider keeping the dogs at all.
Again, thanks to you all for the sound advice. I appreciate it.

i no what ya mean lad but imo they work well if not abused. iv a good bond with my dog too and i use one all the time now when out, i got it as a lend off spunk to correct some issues that i was at my wits end with and it has worked a treat

Ronnie Beck

slowburner wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

In all fairness, if it can be done effectively without a shock collar, then that is the way I would prefer to do it.
There is a strong bond of trust between me and the dogs and I wouldn't like to damage that.
To be honest, these dogs would lay down their lives for me and my family - I am certain of that.
I think it is a question of understanding between master and dog - I just haven't had the time this season to impress this understanding on the dogs. I think they just don't know that sheep are out of bounds - yet.
But I have faith that they will.
If more humane methods don't work, then I either have to consider the shock collar or reconsider keeping the dogs at all.
Again, thanks to you all for the sound advice. I appreciate it.

I'm sure they will get the hang of it. But if it comes down to it and the day comes where you are going to get rid of the dogs just because they chase sheep then get a shock collar to correct that one issue. I'd imagine, if they really work, you should only have to give them a one time zap at the right moment and not everytime they "look sideways" at one.