CWO violence

snowwhite2011

The shocking and ridiculous situation happened to me today. I needed to see a community welfare officer in Limerick. The clinic hours are 10 to 11 on Thursdays. I arrived on 10.50., took a ticket, there were approximately 20 people before me. So I decided to get a coffee from the nearest shop, came back at 11.05. I know that they close the door at 11 o’clock, but as usual you just make your way in when somebody else is on their way out. So there I was at the door waiting, next thing a security guard opened the door to let somebody out. I asked politely, which number is being served at the moment, didn’t get the answer, just the question (asked rudely): What number are YOU? I said, number 22. The answer was: Clinic hours are 10 to 11, we are closed. I explained that I was here before 11, I got the ticket, and asked him if it was a new rule. He just shut the door in front of my face. I was shocked but waited. In a minute time he let another person out, I tried to enter the door, but he started pushing me away with his hands AND the door. Now, he was a big guy, as you can imagine, and I’m just a weak woman. So I started to shout at him to get his hands off me, and that doesn’t have a right to even touch me. But he proceeded, and threatened me with Garda. I was already crying. Then a community welfare officer came over and asked what’s going on, I explained the situation. CWO asked the guard what time I came in, he said I came in before 11, but then left. So CWO decided to take the security guy side, and told me he was right, and I should come next Thursday. CWO then left, didn’t want to listen whatever I had to say. I decided I won’t leave anyway and stayed there. There were 4 people served after me, I mean number 23 to 26. I was denied service. I stayed there till the end, they just locked their offices and walked away.
I cried for an hour after that. Just feeling like a piece of s..t. I’m sure they don’t have the right to behave like that. And I do regret I didn’t call Garda. There was violence involved. I have a bruise on my shoulder.
What do I do now? Any advice? I’m still in a shock...

Tayla

I would definitely make a complaint about that, that is disgraceful. Speak to someone in your local citizens advice centre and they should be able to advise you.

mikemac1

snowwhite2011 wrote: »

In a minute time he let another person out, I tried to enter the door, but he started pushing me away with his hands AND the door.

I'm trying to picture it

So he opens to door and the person left
And you tried to squeeze in, is that right? Brush past him? Despite being told they were closed.

Maybe he was closing the door and you stepped forward and tried to squeeze through and so the door hit your shoulder?

Trying to squeeze through a gap can get you a bang and a bruise

You mention he blocked you with his hands. If you were trying to brush past him and ignore him, well how do you stop someone?
I've been a porter, I put out my arms to block people and let them walk into me. I don't touch them, they touch me

So I started to shout at him to get his hands off me

But it was you touching him realy. He was in the doorway trying to close the door and you tried to get in

Tayla

Personally I find the way the CWO sided with the security guard and actually told the OP to wait until next thursday to come back just because she dared to leave the building worse than the security guard actually pushing her.

tenchi-fan

It would have been nice of him to let you in.

I've often been in a long queue and went for a wee walk and I'd be fairly pissed off if I was refused entry when I was obviously waiting.

However, the fact is he did refuse you entry and it seems he was his responsibility to do so.

He was well within his rights to use reasonable force to stop you from entering or to eject you.

You hovered by the door then tried to force your way in. That was illegal and as you made contact you are the one who assaulted him.

I'd imagine you were responsible for any bruise - it was the impact of you jumping against him and getting stuck in the doorway!

My advice is to forget about it. Treat the incident like it next happened and just try to relax a little. At least now you know you cannot leave the building when you are queuing.

snowwhite2011

Tayla wrote: »

I would definitely make a complaint about that, that is disgraceful. Speak to someone in your local citizens advice centre and they should be able to advise you.

Tayla, thanks for your support and advice! I would definitely contact citizens advice office.

snowwhite2011

mikemac1 wrote: »

I'm trying to picture it

So he opens to door and the person left
And you tried to squeeze in, is that right? Brush past him? Despite being told they were closed.

Maybe he was closing the door and you stepped forward and tried to squeeze through and so the door hit your shoulder?

Trying to squeeze through a gap can get you a bang and a bruise

You mention he blocked you with his hands. If you were trying to brush past him and ignore him, well how do you stop someone?
I've been a porter, I put out my arms to block people and let them walk into me. I don't touch them, they touch me

mikemac1, yes, I actually tried to squeeze in, as I had the right to be served, as I had a ticket. And he actually bang the door on my shoulder, HE also pushed me away, I mean really pushed, I didn't touch him at all!!
And one of my closest friends is a bouncer, I know what I'm talking about, I'm not even sure if he was properly trained!

Tayla

Techi-fan, I just think it's a very sad sign of the times when someone in need of a CWO will go there on the 1 day of the week that they are available and go for a little walk and then be refused access to the CWO because of that and expected to wait for another week. Let's say for example that that happened to someone who was in urgent need of a payment or they would starve for that week and they left to take a phonecall or something, they then return and get treated like that.

In the OP's situation the CWO came out and would have seen that she was distressed that she wasn't allowed back in and still told her to come back next week, it's just not right.

He could just have warned her that people wouldn't have been allowed to leave and come back in the future and made an exception.

mikemac1

I don't think you have a case at all

He was inside, you tried to squeeze in yet you shouted he put his hands on you. Realy, he was inside and it was you who touched him.

Anyway since you seem determined to follow it up, the citizens advice is great advice, they are extremly helpful.

I'd be pretty certain the place has CCTV but these get wiped within days often times so you'd want to act quickly.

snowwhite2011

tenchi-fan wrote: »

It would have been nice of him to let you in.

I've often been in a long queue and went for a wee walk and I'd be fairly pissed off if I was refused entry when I was obviously waiting.

However, the fact is he did refuse you entry and it seems he was his responsibility to do so.

He was well within his rights to use reasonable force to stop you from entering or to eject you.

You hovered by the door then tried to force your way in. That was illegal and as you made contact you are the one who assaulted him.

I'd imagine you were responsible for any bruise - it was the impact of you jumping against him and getting stuck in the doorway!

My advice is to forget about it. Treat the incident like it next happened and just try to relax a little. At least now you know you cannot leave the building when you are queuing.

tenchi-fan, well, rules are rules, and actually I am a person who follow the rules! Fair enough. But queuing is one thing, and getting a ticket is another, what is the purpose of getting a ticket anyway if you can't even leave for one reason or another?! It doesn't make any sense! Also, sometimes I had to wait until 1 o'clock to be served, and I waited in my car, because, there's usually, no place to sit inside, I have never came across that rule before, even when the above mentioned security guard was working...

snowwhite2011

mikemac1 wrote: »

I don't think you have a case at all

He was inside, you tried to squeeze in yet you shouted he put his hands on you. Realy, he was inside and it was you who touched him.

Anyway since you seem determined to follow it up, the citizens advice is great advice, they are extremly helpful.

I'd be pretty certain the place has CCTV but these get wiped within days often times so you'd want to act quickly.

I am not agressive person at all! And I do hope they have CCTV there, because if I have to go to court or prove my case to whoever will be dealing with it, I'll be happy I have a proof of violence!

Balagan

snowwhite2011 wrote: »

The shocking and ridiculous situation happened to me today. I needed to see a community welfare officer in Limerick. The clinic hours are 10 to 11 on Thursdays. I arrived on 10.50., took a ticket, there were approximately 20 people before me. So I decided to get a coffee from the nearest shop, came back at 11.05. I know that they close the door at 11 o’clock, but as usual you just make your way in when somebody else is on their way out. So there I was at the door waiting, next thing a security guard opened the door to let somebody out. I asked politely, which number is being served at the moment, didn’t get the answer, just the question (asked rudely): What number are YOU? I said, number 22. The answer was: Clinic hours are 10 to 11, we are closed. I explained that I was here before 11, I got the ticket, and asked him if it was a new rule. He just shut the door in front of my face. I was shocked but waited. In a minute time he let another person out, I tried to enter the door, but he started pushing me away with his hands AND the door. Now, he was a big guy, as you can imagine, and I’m just a weak woman. So I started to shout at him to get his hands off me, and that doesn’t have a right to even touch me. But he proceeded, and threatened me with Garda. I was already crying. Then a community welfare officer came over and asked what’s going on, I explained the situation. CWO asked the guard what time I came in, he said I came in before 11, but then left. So CWO decided to take the security guy side, and told me he was right, and I should come next Thursday. CWO then left, didn’t want to listen whatever I had to say. I decided I won’t leave anyway and stayed there. There were 4 people served after me, I mean number 23 to 26. I was denied service. I stayed there till the end, they just locked their offices and walked away.
I cried for an hour after that. Just feeling like a piece of s..t. I’m sure they don’t have the right to behave like that. And I do regret I didn’t call Garda. There was violence involved. I have a bruise on my shoulder.
What do I do now? Any advice? I’m still in a shock...

You knew the clinic hours were 10.00 to 11.00 a.m. You knew they lock the doors at 11.00 a.m. You know the rules and the practice but you found a way previously to circumvent the rules e.g., you managed to get in when someone was coming out. That shouldn't have happened and it is no pity that you didn't get away with it this time. What should you do? You should go back next week at the correct time. You should apologise to the security guard for causing him hassle when he was simply doing his job. And you should take the time to ensure that all the information, documentation etc., that you have to present to the CWO are entirely correct because, by virtue of this post, you seem to think that rules don't apply to you.

mp22

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW104/Pages/Complaints.aspx

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