Sram 2012 (electronic?)

AstraMonti

Found these pics:





Looks like Sram is taking the leap of faith, still 10 speeds though.

GTDolanator

electric callipers?!!?

AstraMonti

It can very well be fake, that's why there is question mark in the title. I haven't seen Sram saying anything about electronic, but they did announce a new Red.. https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=145955848840469&id=260075917374703

Edit: WW report it as fake, so there you have it.

Home:Ballyhoura

New SRAM Red available Feb 2012, wonder what upgrades despite being lighter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW6vtft7hYQ

velo.2010

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

New SRAM Red available Feb 2012, wonder what upgrades despite being lighter?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW6vtft7hYQ

Well you'll certaintly know that the gruppo in front is SRAM Red!

Graphics overkill methinks.

Home:Ballyhoura

Some more details on the flagship SRAM gruppo for next year...http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/sram-red-groupset-2013-details-leaked-32565

ednwireland

sram red now with abit more red !

niceonetom

Mechanical 10 speed... Really?

How many more years will sram survive on BNG? It's getting embarrassing.

Junior

To be fair, the shifters and the front mech are meant to be very different.

Chips Lovell

Question. What advantage would hydraulic brakes provide? In particular, what advantage would you gain from hydraulic rim brakes?

ednwireland

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Question. What advantage would hydraulic brakes provide? In particular, what advantage would you gain from hydraulic rim brakes?

i run magura hydraulic rim brakes on my mtb, modulation, power and not getting tired hands are the main advantages imo

Lumen

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Question. What advantage would hydraulic brakes provide? In particular, what advantage would you gain from hydraulic rim brakes?

I believe that one advantage is that there is very little lever travel once the brakes contact because the hydraulic fluid doesn't compress like cables stretch. This is possibly more useful for MTBs.

I guess there would still be some squidge from the pads themselves.

Chips Lovell

More pics here, albeit annoyingly teasery.

AstraMonti

Horrible graphics!

AstraMonti

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/2012-sram-red-full-details

It might be light, but it's ugly and looks cheap and flimsy.

Chips Lovell

It looks nice, but it's quite underwhelming considering what the competition is up to. Sram are making great inroads into the market, but in terms of the top level stuff they may be falling behind.

Lumen

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It looks nice, but it's quite underwhelming considering what the competition is up to. Sram are making great inroads into the market, but in terms of the top level stuff they may be falling behind.

I guess that depends on how important you think 11sp and electronic shifting is.

150g weight saving is a lot. I'd buy it for that, the integrated chain catcher and the improved cross-chaining tolerance, if those are all as advertised.

It certainly reads like the biggest changes since Red was first released, and helps differentiate it from Force.

ednwireland

Lumen wrote: »

I guess that depends on how important you think 11sp and electronic shifting is.

150g weight saving is a lot. I'd buy it for that, the integrated chain catcher and the improved cross-chaining tolerance, if those are all as advertised.
.

wonder who thats for

Idleater

ednwireland wrote: »

wonder who thats for

lol

I'm not gone on the looks of the cranks, but I for one will take a keen interest in the Front derailleur to see if it is in any way compatible with the older group sets.

AstraMonti

That's allegedly the weight differences but I don't really believe it unless I see it on a scale. 150gr on an already very light gruppo is maybe a bit too optimistic.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

I guess that depends on how important you think 11sp and electronic shifting is.

150g weight saving is a lot. I'd buy it for that, the integrated chain catcher and the improved cross-chaining tolerance, if those are all as advertised.

It certainly reads like the biggest changes since Red was first released, and helps differentiate it from Force.

Weight isn't as much of an issue as before since it's so easy to hit the weight limit these days.

The cross chaining thing is a nice feature, but that's about it in terms of new stuff. New brakes? Is anyone unhappy with the stopping power of current top line brakes?

Lumen

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Weight isn't as much of an issue as before since it's so easy to hit the weight limit these days.

ISTR reading that the Sky Pinarello Dogmas were getting on for 8kg.

...although they run Di2

edit...

Ben Swifts's Dogma 60.1 (with mech. DA) was 7.7kg
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/pro-bike-ben-swifts-pinarello-dogma-601-24711/

Alex Dowsett's Dogma 2 (with Di2) was also 7.7kg
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/pro-bike-alex-dowsetts-team-sky-pinarello-dogma-2-31745/

AstraMonti

That's pretty light considering the weight of Di2 and Dogma 2 (I remember a photo for a size 46cm that was 1150gr).

niceonetom

I am underwhelmed. What's the expected price of this new Red group? I think it's only fair to compare it to whatever other groups are in the same price bracket... It's lighter than Chorus and mechanical DA but tbh if SRAM are going to really keep up at the very top of the market they need a groupset above this.

Sticking to mechanical 10 speed is fine but, if they're to make their case on weight alone, they'll need to find more than 150g to compete with the allure of the 11sp electronic stuff that coming. Maybe there's a market for a really weighweenie group that'll allow us freds to hit the 6.8kg while still running our 1700g carbon-faring-clinchers.

Chips Lovell

Actually, it looks like they do have some genuinely innovative stuff on the way:

It’s been rumored that SRAM is developing RED level road hydraulic brakes. We want to confirm this and let you know that we are currently working on a hydraulic disc brake and a hydraulic rim brake. Information on pricing will come at a later date and no photos are currently available. Key features:

• Hydraulic disc brake: RED level / Drop bar DoubleTap lever actuated / All new master cylinder and caliper / 140-160mm discs
• Hydraulic rim brake: RED level / Drop bar DoubleTap lever actuated / tire clearance up to 28C / Firecrest rim compatible

I'm surprised they didn't wait till that was ready before launching.

AstraMonti

What's the point though with hydraulic rim brakes? We definetely don't need any more power, one can argue about the modulation but 95% that's coming down to the brake pads. What else is there?

Chips Lovell

Some discussion on Weight Weenies about why the cranks are listed as incompatible with other Sram groups and the older Red.

AstraMonti

Lumen

Worst. Diagram. Ever.

Does that mean I can't use SRAM 2012 shifters and front mech with a third party crankset?

AstraMonti

I think it means that they are actually covering their bottoms in case something doesn't work as it's supposed to.

From Velonews:

"Compatibility
Here’s the big one. All of SRAM’s cable pull ratios have remained the same, so in theory everything should be backwards compatible with old Red, Force and Rival. However, much like Shimano, SRAM insists that the group is designed as a system and therefore will work considerably better with all the correct parts."

But.. few other people are saying that the pull ratio is different so unless someone actually tries it, we won't know for sure.

Chips Lovell

I suspect the cranks thing might be as irrelevant as Campagnolo saying only 11 speed cranks will work with 11 speed gearing.

AstraMonti

http://road.cc/content/news/52299-sram-red-hydraulic-discs-and-rim-brakes-spy-shots-land

niceonetom

Does anyone actually want this stuff?

AstraMonti

niceonetom wrote: »

Does anyone actually want this stuff?

I am sure some will feel that they have reinvented the brakes.. but for the majority of the people? No clue and I guess not unless it starts coming in an OEM level.

ednwireland

niceonetom wrote: »

Does anyone actually want this stuff?

yes, road hydraulic rim caliper i doubt i'm prepard to pay the price sram will charge but considering my 10 year old maguras on the mtb are still going strong

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Does anyone actually want this stuff?

I do.

AstraMonti

Lumen wrote: »

I do.

Why?

niceonetom

AstraMonti wrote: »

Why?

Probably to annoy me.

AstraMonti

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/news/it-works-we-test-sram-red-backwards-compatibility_209270

Idleater

Old shifters + new front derailleur + old crank: 9/10

Yeah!

Lumen

AstraMonti wrote: »

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/news/it-works-we-test-sram-red-backwards-compatibility_209270

Swapping chainrings
The improvements in front shifting come from a combination of the new Yaw front derailleur and drastically improved chainrings, which have been made significantly stiffer and include improved ramp and pin timing. Why not, therefore, just put the new rings on an old crankset and save some cash?

Turns out that is not such a good idea. The new rings may still be five-arm with a 130BCD (bolt circle diameter), just like other standard road rings, but SRAM now uses a hidden bolt behind the crankarm rather than five independent spider arms. That means that the new Red rings have to be rotated 180% in order to mount up to a regular crankset. The pin that normally sits behind the crankarm to prevent chain jam sits either to the left or right of the crankarm, making it useless.

Further, the inner ring doesn’t fit on a regular crankset at all unless you’re willing to file it down a bit. The tab that is intended to sit behind the crankarm on the new Red crank is a bit too long to attach to a five-arm spider on a regular crankset. Running an old little ring seems to mess up the spacing sufficiently to negate the advantage brought by using the new big ring.

Whether the improvement in shift quality that comes from the new rings is worth the risk of jamming the chain in between the rings and crankarm, and spending time filing the little ring, is up to you.

Fffffuuuuuuuuuu......

So basically, new Red rings are only compatible with the new Red crankset, which is bad news for people running variant crankset, e.g. a crank-based powermeter.

This seems like a very stupid decision.

AstraMonti

Lumen wrote: »

Fffffuuuuuuuuuu......

So basically, new Red rings are only compatible with the new Red crankset, which is bad news for people running variant crankset, e.g. a crank-based powermeter.

This seems like a very stupid decision.

Why would you prefer red rings on a non red cransket?

Lumen

AstraMonti wrote: »

Why would you prefer red rings on a non red cransket?

I would like the new rings because "The improvements in front shifting come from a combination of the new Yaw front derailleur and drastically improved chainrings, which have been made significantly stiffer and include improved ramp and pin timing"

...but the article suggests that I can't attach those chainrings to my existing SRAM S975 powermeter crankset (supposedly "Red level" but with detachable spider for the powermeter, and only compatible with last-gen Red) without "the risk of jamming the chain in between the rings and crankarm" which is precisely the sort of race-ending misery I expect to avoid with a €3000 groupset/powermeter combo.