Full time gyms - how are they going?

yomchi

Hi guys,

As an owner of a full time premises for training, i'd be interested to hear how other gyms are performing throughout the financial dip. What ideas are you using, have you had to lower fees? etc etc.

I've an idea to set up a co-op type thing idea amongst all full time gyms irregardless of style where we could share ideas that are working for each and everyone of us. You might have a good contact for insurance and I might have a contact for a good plumber etc etc.

It's just an idea, but throw it out there... how are you guys getting on?

silat liam

Hi

I don't have a full time place, but instead run classes all week in different venue, so some problems are the same others are different. I had to learn to market better and be able to promote what I do to different sections of the public. So spent alot of time understanding this side of the business. Willing to share ideals.

Biggest problem I face is having to compete against instructors who undercut me, while i have to pay taxes, vat and keep roof over head, they don't as they on dole and its all cash in hand. Can be very frustrating at times.

globalkb

This is a brilliant idea Yomchi, we just opened our full time place in October and are interested to see how things pan out.

Tim_Murphy

Hi Jon,

I doubt you'll get many gym owners on here to admit if their place is struggling, or even if it is going well, why would they?

Tim
Gym owner (going pretty OK at the moment thankfully)

RoboRat

Great idea yomchi.

I know times are tough and money is sparse so if anyone is looking for some marketing or web/design/advertising help drop me a PM. If I can help I will be more than happy to oblige.

Im working in marketing/ advertising for over 12 years and I have some great contacts and know what rates people should pay rather than what they are quoted. There are also plenty of free resources out there that people may not be aware of.

Roborat

Barry.Oglesby

like Tim said I doubt you'll get people admitting to struggling!

However as a full time owner I can say that it's approximately 7 times as hard to get people to join than it was 3/4 years ago.

What I will say is that I disagree with Liam on the competitor front. I don't see my competitors as being the karate school or the other jiu jitsu schools. I see my competitors as being the couch, I'm a Celebrity, Champions League etc. The first thing I put in my mind when making my new gym was to make a clean, warm, friendly place where people would want to be on a winter's night instead of being on the couch. I wasn't thinking about what I could do better than the next guy and that's the truth.

Anyway, it's a challenge for everyone, we're in a terrible economy and I'm sure most people are struggling never mind martial arts school owners. Personally, I've made training cheaper, more accessible and now my gym is out of an industrial estate and in a more accessible area, but the challenges still remain.

Dyr

Not necessarily related to full time gyms only, but how do you guys find insurance policys/coverage works out for you?

Barry.Oglesby

It's actually one of the more manageable expenses considering the activity.

yomchi

Fair point Tim, they of course don't have to post up anything they don't want to but for anyone that does sure it's great to share information.

At the moment I'm considering moving to somewhere bigger myself. The club I have at the moment is going ok as in the rent is covered and all other expenses connected to it. My biggest problem is space and heat. You could hang meat in it at this time of year.

The idea about some sort of co-op was really based on sharing information between each other, what's working and what's not. I'll have my thinking cap on about this and work out a system of communication should anyone wish to sign up for it. From chatting with others, I have encountered gym owners who were struggling when it came understanding VAT, insurances, chasing gym fees and retention. All the obvious one's to be honest. However there are guys out there who are at this a long time now and have built up a pile of information in relation to all things full time.

Let's be honest, this ****ty financial crisis is not getting any better and with this budget looming it looks as though the average 'Joe/Josephine' are going to be hit hard in the pocket which will reduce spending and in turn effect some gyms. The least we can do in these times is comminucate and share ideas, that way we help to keep heads above water.

I'll come back with an idea and see where it goes.

silat liam

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

like Tim said I doubt you'll get people admitting to struggling!

What I will say is that I disagree with Liam on the competitor front. I don't see my competitors as being the karate school or the other jiu jitsu schools. I see my competitors as being the couch, I'm a Celebrity, Champions League etc. .

Hi Barry

I never quoted that! what I wrote was about on the front concerning other clubs is having to compete against instructors who because they on the dole, undercut me in price, as they no tax or vat to pay on prices. Just my personal experience. Becasue I'm proffessional and legit i have to find a way to compete and offer a service where money is not the sole focus. I totally agree with you on the the competitor front is actually, is the couch, playstation, tv. etc.... and we have to try and find a way to get people away from these and into a training enviroment, and it so much harder now.

Killme00

@Liam,

You've mentioned VAT twice, but i dont really understand your point. Everyone pays VAT, so it's not really a hindrance to you.

Also, If you know someone who is claiming social welfare and working then you should report it whether they are you competition or not.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Killme00 wrote: »

@Liam,

You've mentioned VAT twice, but i dont really understand your point. Everyone pays VAT, so it's not really a hindrance to you.

Also, If you know someone who is claiming social welfare and working then you should report it whether they are you competition or not.

I think what Liam was talking about was that if you are providing a service (teaching MA) you should be registered for VAT and as such paying a % of your class fees on to revenue

EDIT assuming of course that your turnover is above a certain threshold which I'm assuming Liam is by the way he discusses the issue

Barry.Oglesby

Not necessarily, the VAT turnover threshold is €37,500 for service providers or €75,000 for goods/service providers.

Killme00

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I think what Liam was talking about was that if you are providing a service (teaching MA) you should be registered for VAT and as such paying a % of your class fees on to revenue

EDIT assuming of course that your turnover is above a certain threshold which I'm assuming Liam is by the way he discusses the issue

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Not necessarily, the VAT turnover threshold is €37,500 for service providers or €75,000 for goods/service providers.

Exactly. But, it's worth noting that it works both ways, if you are registered to charge VAT on the services you proivde, you can reclaim VAT on your business expenditure.

Hence my confusion at Liams mention of VAT.

Edit to add: I'm not trying to be negative. I admire anyone who has the brains and guille to set up their own business.

silat liam

Hi Killme00

I wish it was that easy that the balance you get back from VAT = the balance you charge. For example if you charging €10 for class you have to give approx 20% of this to VAT, and abit more from budget day. The guy who doing it on the side can charge €8 and make the same profit. The public see two prices for same product €8 and the other €10, so usually you have to drop your price to €8 to compete on prices, though again you're only taking about €6.50 vat again, minus TAX. Claiming back, for me there very little, advertising , venue rent. If your teaching martial arts its a turnover of €37,500 which on average is €700 a week . It's only one aspect, and I still lucky for this to be my job.

Jason McCabe

Interested in reading this

We have wasted plenty of cash marketing in the past. On a waiver we ask new members how they heard about us and a large percent is through a friend. Need to push this to ur members constantly

CIARAN_BOYLE

Jason McCabe wrote: »

Interested in reading this

We have wasted plenty of cash marketing in the past. On a waiver we ask new members how they heard about us and a large percent is through a friend. Need to push this to ur members constantly

I was in a kickboxing club a few years back and more new members came from a bring your friend for free day than any advertising attempts. Maybe that is something clubs should try.