Fry's Chocolate Train?

OurLadyofKnock

I have a memory of being down in Cork as a kid and I could sworn I once saw a loco shutting wagons into a chocolate factory. Fry's I think.

Was I magically thinking or confusing it with something else?

roundymac

The only chocalate factory I know of is the Cadbury factory in Rathmore Co Kerry. The line runs next to it.

Eiretrains

You probably saw the Fry Cadbury factory at Rathmore adjacent to the Mallow-Tralee line. It had its own factory sidings on the down side of the railway line. It was closed in the late 1970s but was left derelict for years after, although nothing is left nowadays but the factory, JD will probably know more.:)

corktina

aha is that the sidings JD was asking about the other day I wonder? I assumed he meant at the station.

I beleive that Frys had a chocolate factory at the Creamery in Mallow . A rail link to that would have been extraordinary!

corktina

anyone post a map?

Victor

http://www.cadbury.ie/cadburyandchocolate/ourstory/pages/cadburyirelandhistory.aspx
http://www.ict.mic.ul.ie/websites/2002/Miriam_OMahony/Tour%20of%20Cadburys.htm
http://www.irelandaerialphotography.com/air_images/001859.html
http://www.epa.ie/licences/lic_eDMS/090151b2800f8051.pdf

Map: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,518039,592934,7,3

http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/Railway%20Stations%20R/Rathmore/slides/Rathmore_20020822_0006_CC_JA.html

Judgement Day

Victor's link from the Cadbury site gives the opening date for the factory as 1948 so assuming the sidings were installed then, they must have had a lifespan of about 30 years. Sadly, they are too recent to appear on the OSI Historic maps. When the sidings were dispensed with, the traffic to the factory was railed to Mallow and then transferred by road. CIE then progressed the situation so that today the traffic is entirely handled by road.

corktina

i suppose I'll have to go for a spin and have a look then...sidings would have been between the main line and the factory I assume?

Victor

Cadbury own both sides of the line, so its a matter of getting permission from them for access ot their site.

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Rathmore,+Kerry&hl=en&ll=52.081194,-9.19517&spn=0.005275,0.038581&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=5.766735,19.753418&vpsrc=6&hnear=Rathmore,+County+Kerry&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.081191,-9.195151&panoid=4qtHbpahQQxMnlOu8gqitw&cbp=12,36.02,,0,-2.45

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

i suppose I'll have to go for a spin and have a look then...sidings would have been between the main line and the factory I assume?

On the Down side close to the mainline.

corktina

should be able to see from the N72 then

CaptainSkidmark

corktina wrote: »

aha is that the sidings JD was asking about the other day I wonder? I assumed he meant at the station.

I beleive that Frys had a chocolate factory at the Creamery in Mallow . A rail link to that would have been extraordinary!

impossible to access as its about 400 feet away and about 100 feet below.

murphaph

Judgement Day wrote: »

Victor's link from the Cadbury site gives the opening date for the factory as 1948 so assuming the sidings were installed then, they must have had a lifespan of about 30 years. Sadly, they are too recent to appear on the OSI Historic maps. When the sidings were dispensed with, the traffic to the factory was railed to Mallow and then transferred by road. CIE then progressed the situation so that today the traffic is entirely handled by road.

Sounds like CIE were almost trying to lose Cadbury as a customer!

It seems incredible that they would remove the sidings and lose the direct rail connection at a time when the roads were obviously so bad as to require Cadbury to continue shipping by rail as far as Mallow anyway.

It's quite sad to see the damage CIE have done to what would have been viable railfreight in Ireland. Right across the way from my apartment here in Berlin there's a private sidings (actually a small private railway that serves a number of private companies) and you see shunting of containers and tank wagons daily. The factory that makes the Lidl version of Nutella is not far away and they use tank wagons for the at least some of the raw materials.

There's possibly no reason other than CIE that Cadbury still aren't using rail to transport their own raw materials to Rathmore. A disgrace of a railway "operator".

OurLadyofKnock

murphaph wrote: »

Sounds like CIE were almost trying to lose Cadbury as a customer!

It seems incredible that they would remove the sidings and lose the direct rail connection at a time when the roads were obviously so bad as to require Cadbury to continue shipping by rail as far as Mallow anyway.

It's quite sad to see the damage CIE have done to what would have been viable railfreight in Ireland. Right across the way from my apartment here in Berlin there's a private sidings (actually a small private railway that serves a number of private companies) and you see shunting of containers and tank wagons daily. The factory that makes the Lidl version of Nutella is not far away and they use tank wagons for the at least some of the raw materials.

There's possibly no reason other than CIE that Cadbury still aren't using rail to transport their own raw materials to Rathmore. A disgrace of a railway "operator".

I was amazed recently when walking through a residential neighbourhood in Vienna seeing a single loco shunting some kind of silo wagon into a small warehouse about a mile from the main track. I decided to walk the track and there was two other small companies with sidings. From the loading bill all the wagons had OBB shipping lables and came from inside Austria.

Also, ever notice how many of the pallets at the back of Irish supermarkets have the logos of European rail operators on them.

Victor

Agreed. Look at Brandenburg - every factory in town seems to have its own siding.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.42659&lon=12.5455&zoom=16&layers=M

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Brandenburg,+Germany&hl=en&ll=52.4262,12.548275&spn=0.006163,0.01929&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=6.172386,19.753418&vpsrc=6&hnear=Brandenburg,+Germany&t=h&z=16

Eiretrains

Victor wrote: »

Cadbury own both sides of the line, so its a matter of getting permission from them for access ot their site.
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That's right, the site of the sidings and level crossing can only be accessed from the Cadbury's.
The sidings were on the down side of the line beyond the level crossing. I have seen some footage of the line taken about 10 years ago and there is nothing left of the sidings, apart from the crossing.

There were once several private industrial sidings around the North Wall area, however only the Tara Mines terminal is the last remaining in use.

dmcronin

Like Eiretrains says nothing much to see now. I do have a pic taken of the sidings from an old 'Nuacht', the only pic I've ever seen of it in use. Wonder if it was a key in the Rathmore-Millstreet ETS that was used to access Fry-Cadburys sidings?

As an aside, there was a serious derailment at Millstreet of an out-of-control chocolate crumb-loaded train. About '64 I think.

murphaph

dmcronin wrote: »

As an aside, there was a serious derailment at Millstreet of an out-of-control chocolate crumb-loaded train. About '64 I think.

I'd say the local kids couldn't believe their luck!

dowlingm

The Coca-Cola plant in Ballina shows how shipping in raw materials can be done, but it will not just require IE but also the relevant local council (who will get the benefit of fewer trucks on the road) to make it happen by co-funding the siding and signal changes. Loading gauge clearance for 9'6" containers might be an issue but the pocket wagons might not be needed as much since IE have been working to clear Ballina-North Wall for 9'6" on standard wagons.

In the specific case of Rathmore there is the upside that the N72 is crap and thus the road alternative isn't stellar but the downside that apart from Cadbury the siding might lack for custom. In Ballina's case there's container and bulk (Coillte). There's also an assumption that Cadbury's origin (raw material) or destination (product) is at a location connected by rail - if it's not Belview or North Wall the service would be less convenient and thus less attractive.

corktina

you have been away too long.
The N72 is much improved nowadays. Definately a secondary N road but still getting better. By Christmas the stretch from Mallow to the Kanturk turn off will be completely rebuilt with a proper surface (ie not done by Cork cc) with only the short section by the Racecourse service station not having hard shoulders. There are improvements going on further west too at the Sandpit House and elsewhere plus west of Rathmore improvements are in hand at the Barraduff Bridge and elsewhere.
Thus road is improving in attractiveness to freight hauliers whilst the Railway stagnates; an all too familiar scenario ,in many places rail is actually disimproving with loops signal boxes and double line being taken out whereever possible with the intention of creating a railway that only just caters for the service that IE want to give with no scope for making it better. Its a scandal

Hotblack Desiato

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

I have a memory of being down in Cork as a kid and I could sworn I once saw a loco shutting wagons into a chocolate factory. Fry's I think.

Cocoa shunter?

alias no.9

murphaph wrote: »

I'd say the local kids couldn't believe their luck!

Can't testify to the events in 1964 but there was an out control chocolate crumb loaded truck overturned in Millstreet about 20 years later and the local kids all had a great time . The real winners in the closing of the sidings at Cadburys were Lucey Transport took on most of the road transport and who's truck crashed in the mid '80s.

halfback

alias no.9 wrote: »

Can't testify to the events in 1964 but there was an out control chocolate crumb loaded truck overturned in Millstreet about 20 years later and the local kids all had a great time . The real winners in the closing of the sidings at Cadburys were Lucey Transport took on most of the road transport and who's truck crashed in the mid '80s.

I was one of those kids cleaning up the 'mess' after the lorry load of chocolate crumb overturned at St.Mary's graveyard in Millstreet, though i can't remember the year, it would have been mid 80s. We were told to take as much as we wanted, because it would only be thrown away. chocolate on everything for about a year. you do get sick of it after a while.

--
There's a report on the 1964 accident in Millstreet Railway Station here, where the loco and 15 wagons left the tracks after their line was changed to avoid a head on collision with another train.

google "Irish Rail Fans News July 1964 pdf", and you can read the report.

metrovick001

Sure those Europeans wouldn't know anything about running a proper railway at all. :-)

Victor wrote: »

Agreed. Look at Brandenburg - every factory in town seems to have its own siding.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.42659&lon=12.5455&zoom=16&layers=M

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Brandenburg,+Germany&hl=en&ll=52.4262,12.548275&spn=0.006163,0.01929&sll=53.401034,-8.307638&sspn=6.172386,19.753418&vpsrc=6&hnear=Brandenburg,+Germany&t=h&z=16