48 ayear road tax

123 man

will we get to keep our 48ayear road tax after the 6th december:rolleyes:

twebb

no I wouln't think so.. there will be an increase, its just a question of how much will it be I reckon! Still.. if its not too much it will be liveable.. the tax system is crazy as it is now.. so called green incentives allowing the guy who can afford a 150k car pay minimal tax with no real regard to the environmental cost of building and supplying that car and the poor f##ker trying to run a 10 year old car, at far less environmental cost being screwed!!

hi5

My guess is it will be the usual percentage increase,probably something like 5 percent,rounding it up to about €51.
The lower emmisions based rates are going to get hit hard.

123 man

thanks to the greens we with the old cars have to pay:mad:

shineon23

hi5 wrote: »

My guess is it will be the usual percentage increase,probably something like 5 percent,rounding it up to about €51.
The lower emmisions based rates are going to get hit hard.

I'd say at least doubled to still be cheaper than the lowest tax band at the minute, 104? or maybe up as high as commercial as worst case scenario, can't see a €3 rise been worth anyone's while to implement! the cost in changing forms etc. for the sake of €3/car surely wouldn't be viable?

Keith in cork

To be fair its only right. I never understood why low emissions were so cheap to tax. Being cheaper i get, and added incentive to buy i also get, but half of them prices are practically free by comparison. I have owned a few guzzlers since these tax bands came in, mostly close to the classic marque, and only used for weekends and very few at that, but still 600 odd tax... my arse.

mistermouse

IF Road tax is about fair usage of Roads, then many of the Green Cars are doing serious mileage compared to an odd run in a Classic.

Many company cars bought since 2008 for sales people for example are putting out much more emissions and using much more road than any classic I have purely due to usage/Mileage

I do think they will raise Vintage tax substantially and eventually subject us to that other stealth tax the NCT.

But its certain that the Green Road Tax prices are rediculous

corktina

a major increase is my guess...and an end to the rolling 30 years

mustang68

twebb wrote: »

.. the tax system is crazy as it is now.. so called green incentives allowing the guy who can afford a 150k car pay minimal tax with no real regard to the environmental cost of building and supplying that car and the poor f##ker trying to run a 10 year old car, at far less environmental cost being screwed!!

Don't you pay VRT and/or VAT when you buy a car that is proportional to the cost of the car?

carchaeologist

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I think its unfair to use an incentive to get people to buy lower emission cars and then sting them with a tax increase shortly after.

Indeed, but this is Ireland. And it was always going to happen. Bastards.
If there's and end to the 30 year exemption it will be a disaster for 80s cars.

Victor

How often do people use their classics? Everyday or just for a couple of weekends over the summer?

si_guru

twebb wrote: »

.. so called green incentives allowing the guy who can afford a 150k car pay minimal tax with no real regard to the environmental cost of building and supplying that car and the poor f##ker trying to run a 10 year old car, at far less environmental cost being screwed!!

Hmmm - what about the €50K plus in VAT and VRT he just paid????

Dades

corktina wrote: »

a major increase is my guess...and an end to the rolling 30 years

Nooooo - I need just two more years! :pac:

Will breathe a sign of relief is they maintain the rolling age and keep it to €100 or less.

Max Power1

I hope they dont end the rolling thirty years! Theres a lot of mid 80's large engined cars i will have my eyes on shortly, but I sure as hell wont be paying €1600 tax.

Sabre Man

It's about time the cost of owning a car was reflected in higher petrol/diesel prices instead of road tax.

Dades

Unfortunately we're getting both.

Silvera

I too hope the vintage tax rate is kept affordable AND the rolling 30-year exemption is also maintained.

With regard to this topic, the recent meeting between Minister Phil Hogan and various vintage club/Irish Vintage Scene representatives (as reported in November's 'Irish Vintage Scene') was pointless and counter-productive IMO. The reps requested (amongst other things) for -

- Vintage Road Tax be 'zeroed' (as in the UK)??!!

A TOTALLY POINTLESS request imo!! That would NEVER happen and by hightlighting this topic they have probably just given the minister the idea to review/increase the vintage tax...and possibly interfere with the rolling 30 yr exemption!


IMO, what they should have lobbied for are the following -

- A reduction in road tax for vehicles in the 20 - 30 age range. Even if road tax was halved in this age range it would be more appropriate than going from, for example €1600 for a 29-yr old car, to €48 for the same car when it hits its 30th year.

- A revised Vintage Registration System. The current 'ZV' series is inappropriate and should be replaced with a well thought out registration system. For example -

'100 ZV to 999 ZV' - for 1900 to 1940 vehicles
'1000 ZV to 9999 ZV' - for 1941 to 1960 vehicles
'ZVA 100 to ZVZ 999' - for 1961 to 1986 vehicles

(NB: I have also researched other old-series Irish registration letters which are still available)

galwaytt

Silvera wrote: »

I too hope the vintage tax rate is kept affordable AND the rolling 30-year exemption is also maintained.

With regard to this topic, the recent meeting between Minister Phil Hogan and various vintage club/Irish Vintage Scene representatives (as reported in November's 'Irish Vintage Scene') was pointless and counter-productive IMO. The reps requested (amongst other things) for -

- Vintage Road Tax be 'zeroed' (as in the UK)??!!

A TOTALLY POINTLESS request imo!! That would NEVER happen and by hightlighting this topic they have probably just given the minister the idea to review/increase the vintage tax...and possibly interfere with the rolling 30 yr exemption!


IMO, what they should have lobbied for are the following -

- A reduction in road tax for vehicles in the 20 - 30 age range. Even if road tax was halved in this age range it would be more appropriate than going from, for example €1600 for a 29-yr old car, to €48 for the same car when it hits its 30th year.

- A revised Vintage Registration System. The current 'ZV' series is inappropriate and should be replaced with a well thought out registration system. For example -

'100 ZV to 999 ZV' - for 1900 to 1940 vehicles
'1000 ZV to 9999 ZV' - for 1941 to 1960 vehicles
'ZVA 100 to ZVZ 999' - for 1961 to 1986 vehicles

(NB: I have also researched other old-series Irish registration letters which are still available)

Sweet Jeebus - whoever arranged that meeting, and that agenda should be beaten with a stick.

If the classics get hammered, now you know who to blame, and you should vote with your wallet when the next sub/renewal comes around......

mistermouse

mistermouse wrote: »

IF Road tax is about fair usage of Roads

If it was, it might be called Road Tax! It's Motor Tax.

hi5

Silvera wrote: »

- Vintage Road Tax be 'zeroed' (as in the UK)??!!

A TOTALLY POINTLESS request imo!! That would NEVER happen and by hightlighting this topic they have probably just given the minister the idea to review/increase the vintage tax...and possibly interfere with the rolling 30 yr exemption!

Or it could be the tactic of asking for something you know you won't get,thereby securing what you already have.

I think in general we classic car people are too hard on ourselves.
There's no guilt in only paying €48 road tax,its a hobby!
A lot of money is raised for charity and it also develops and fosters a healthy respect for hands-on skills and knowledge.
Look at the money thats plowed into other hobbies,sports and arts.
We get nothing,we shouldn't have to grovel:mad:

And when is our new national transport museum going to be built?:D

Caddyman

Silvera wrote: »

- A revised Vintage Registration System. The current 'ZV' series is inappropriate and should be replaced with a well thought out registration system. For example -

'100 ZV to 999 ZV' - for 1900 to 1940 vehicles
'1000 ZV to 9999 ZV' - for 1941 to 1960 vehicles
'ZVA 100 to ZVZ 999' - for 1961 to 1986 vehicles

(NB: I have also researched other old-series Irish registration letters which are still available)

Back in the day (2007) I had to meet John Gormless with some clients and had a few minutes with him alone and asked him about the same thing (ZV plates) as well as asking him would they not consider Personalized Plates seeing as they were so successful in the UK. He said that the ZV plates were fine as they were and on the Personalized Plates I explained that they could get a big payday and it would encourage people to keep the car they had and not change it every 2/3 years (remember that?) but the "twonk" said that Europe wouldn't let them do it! I said how come the UK were able to do it? He said they did a lot of stuff they shouldn't do!!
I tell you it's time we started doing less of what Europe wants us to do and more of what we The People want to do!!:mad:

si_guru

..and Germany allow it.. Austria more so, and welll Sweden.. you can have any word up to 7 letters. (IIRC)

Type 17

Caddyman wrote: »

...the "twonk" said that Europe wouldn't let them do it! I said how come the UK were able to do it? He said they did a lot of stuff they shouldn't do!!

In Germany, the reg resides with the owner, not the car, so a car gets a new reg every time it is sold, and you can have any available combination you want (or just take what you're given) - so much for "Europe won't let us do it" :cool:

stackerman

I'd say it will double to around €100
Tax my Triumph today, but will have the disc sent out.
, why ? System was showing €980 to tax :eek:

carchaeologist

I'm totally against the personalized plates idea. It's a silly idea and unworkable in this country. A whole new system would have to be set up to do it, and they haven't got the cop on to run what's there properly as it is.
A decent historical vehicle registration system and refined tax classes would go a long way. It would also help to curtail the current illegal plate swapping which is rife at the moment.

Silvera

Caddyman wrote: »

Back in the day (2007) I had to meet John Gormless with some clients and had a few minutes with him alone and asked him about the same thing (ZV plates) as well as asking him would they not consider Personalized Plates seeing as they were so successful in the UK. He said that the ZV plates were fine as they were and on the Personalized Plates I explained that they could get a big payday and it would encourage people to keep the car they had and not change it every 2/3 years (remember that?) but the "twonk" said that Europe wouldn't let them do it! I said how come the UK were able to do it? He said they did a lot of stuff they shouldn't do!!
I tell you it's time we started doing less of what Europe wants us to do and more of what we The People want to do!!:mad:

I'd reckon he gave you those answers because he hadnt a clue what ZV and/or Personalised plates consisted of!:D

bijapos

si_guru wrote: »

..and Germany allow it.. Austria more so, and welll Sweden.. you can have any word up to 7 letters. (IIRC)

Germany doesnt allow much flexibility with personalised plates. The first 1,2 or 3 letters arethe city/county, if you move county the plates must be changed to the new county. All you can do is ask for a combination of letters (2 max) followed by numbers (4 max), these can be picked out if available, so John Murphy, born 06.02.71 living in Munich could get M-JM 6271 if the number was available. If he moves to Frankfurt, he loses the number but can reapply for F-JM 6271 if its available.

Austria allows a combination of up to 6 letters or digits after the city/county, so if Murphy moved to Salzburg he could get S-JM 6271 or S-MURPH 1 or whatever, so long as its avilable and not offensive.

Sweden has a similar system but I'm not so sure how it works, back in the early 90's you got the plates for 5 years for something like 5000 SKR (ca £500) iirc. Maybe Do-more can enlighten us?

Type 17 wrote: »

In Germany, the reg resides with the owner, not the car, so a car gets a new reg every time it is sold, and you can have any available combination you want (or just take what you're given) - so much for "Europe won't let us do it" :cool:

Not really, if you sell the car in the city/county, you as seller can keep the number or pass it on to the new owner. If you decide to keep the number, the new owner then has to apply for a new number.
If you sell it to someone in a new county, the number will be changed anyway.

carchaeologist wrote: »

I'm totally against the personalized plates idea. It's a silly idea and unworkable in this country. A whole new system would have to be set up to do it, and they haven't got the cop on to run what's there properly as it is.
A decent historical vehicle registration system and refined tax classes would go a long way. It would also help to curtail the current illegal plate swapping which is rife at the moment.

I agree that the historical numbers thing should be changed. Why don't they start to reissue withdrawn pre-87 numbers, offer them at a premium of say €100 rather than boring ZV or age related plates. There should be a record of cars that were scrapped in the scrappage schemes so they could use these?

To stop plate swopping the easiest way is to make a chassis nr check a part of every NCT. I dont mean the riveted plate in the engine bay, I mean the actual part of the chassis that is stamped.

For pre-1980 NCT exempt cars they could either check the chassis nr during the next transfer of ownership or have the chassis checked the next time the car is taxed. Make it a quick NCT check and charge €10 for it and most of the ringers would be laid up fairly quickly. Give an amnesty for ringers of 3 months then go after them.


Personalised plates are a question of taste, but if someone wants to use them and is willing to throw some money at the government for doing this then why not. I wouldn't use one myself but each to their own.

Silvera wrote: »

I'd reckon he gave you those answers because he hadnt a clue what ZV and/or Personalised plates consisted of!:D

I would agree with this 100%.

Redrocket

Type 17 wrote: »

In Germany, the reg resides with the owner, not the car, so a car gets a new reg every time it is sold, and you can have any available combination you want (or just take what you're given) - so much for "Europe won't let us do it" :cool:

Not all the time, quite often people buy a second car and need a second reg for it while still owning the first car and having both insured/taxed. in some situations the reg will move with a car where it is less paper work to transfer the reg along with the car. i.e original owner downsizing amount of registrations and new owner upsizing.

but your point is still valid, they transfer easily, and if you can track reg assignments to vins you should/could/would be able to transfer easily


enough of the OT, we should dig up the last 3 or 4 years thread on the classic road tax budget increase for some more inspiration

(I already have the feeling some posts here are taking the mick on this because every year its discussed and nothing major changes)

Damokc

This sucks big style if they do away with the rolling 30 year thing. Being 28 I imagine the day where I could have an Integrale or something similar as a classic car. Suppose a big turbo engined car would bring in too much money in tax to have it as a classic.

MaxFlower

Dónal wrote: »

If it was, it might be called Road Tax! It's Motor Tax.

Why don't I pay tax on my lawnmower so. You only need tax when you take it on a public highway(?) Maybe it should be called 'Road Going Motor Tax'

RobAMerc

Damokc wrote: »

This sucks big style if they do away with the rolling 30 year thing. Being 28 I imagine the day where I could have an Integrale or something similar as a classic car. Suppose a big turbo engined car would bring in too much money in tax to have it as a classic.

I am fairly sure you could have an Integrale on classic insurance right now and as it's only a 2 litre the tax isn't that wild on it at the moment compared to say a 5 litre V8 or something.

Damokc

RobAMerc wrote: »

I am fairly sure you could have an Integrale on classic insurance right now and as it's only a 2 litre the tax isn't that wild on it at the moment compared to say a 5 litre V8 or something.

Honestly I think I've made the common n00b mistake of mixing up classic/vintage:o 2ltr tax would kill me too. Is it vintage that has the cheaper tax?
Sorry now but I know there is dozens of threads on this. Isn't the Insurance based on how many miles you do and it can't be your daily driver(you have to be fully insured on around car?)

alpina

Classic Insurance; 20yr. +
Classic Tax; 30yr +

Silvera

And just to add some more to the topic of German plates...

A German owner of more than one classic car can apply for a type of 'trade plate' which can be transferred to each vehicle as it is used on the road (within certain restrictions - going to car shows, weekend use, etc etc).

Damokc

alpina wrote: »

Classic Insurance; 20yr. +
Classic Tax; 30yr +

Ya, I've heard it something like that alright! sure it wouldn't be Ireland if twasnt backward!

alastair

Damokc wrote: »

Ya, I've heard it something like that alright! sure it wouldn't be Ireland if twasnt backward!

It's not particularly backward. Actual 'official' vintage status is just about having a 30 year old car, '79 being the last of the NCT-free cars. Beyond that the insurance companies can decide for themselves what they consider 'classic' or otherwise. They will sometimes offer 'classic' insurance on cars younger than 20 too - but that really just means exotica like 911's etc. Conversely there's 20 year old cars they won't consider for 'classic' insurance, because they don't think they're collectable - just old bangers.

bijapos

Silvera wrote: »

And just to add some more to the topic of German plates...

A German owner of more than one classic car can apply for a type of 'trade plate' which can be transferred to each vehicle as it is used on the road (within certain restrictions - going to car shows, weekend use, etc etc).

Yes, thats a red number beginning with 07. Handy if your like carchaeologist are a private individual and and have a collection, though you can only move one car at a time. A dealers number is the same but begins with 06. While you can take an 07 out of the country, some places tend to give you a bit of bother with it. Good idea all the same.


There are also "H" numbers, the car has to be over 30 years and authentic, no modifications are allowed, and generally matching numbers are required. It has the advantage that you can go into city centres without the need for a catalytic converter on the car.



Or a handy alternative is the season number, which can be used on all cars. Essentially you nominate which months of the year you want the car on the road, and you only pay insurance and tax for those months. Its a minimum of 2 and a max of 11 months and they must be consecutive. The months appear at the end of the plate.




The final option is a 5 day number which includes all taxes, insurance (3rd party) for 5 days only. The last day of validity is printed at the end so its handy for a one off to visit a show. There is a Smart car around Dublin with one of these which is several years old, its a wonder customs never got onto him.

Hermy

Caddyman wrote: »

...the "twonk" said that Europe wouldn't let them do it!

Is this the same Europe that doesn't permit VRT?:mad:

galwaytt

bijapos wrote: »

Silvera wrote: »

And just to add some more to the topic of German plates...

A German owner of more than one classic car can apply for a type of 'trade plate' which can be transferred to each vehicle as it is used on the road (within certain restrictions - going to car shows, weekend use, etc etc).

Yes, thats a red number beginning with 07. Handy if your like carchaeologist are a private individual and and have a collection, though you can only move one car at a time. A dealers number is the same but begins with 06. While you can take an 07 out of the country, some places tend to give you a bit of bother with it. Good idea all the same.


There are also "H" numbers, the car has to be over 30 years and authentic, no modifications are allowed, and generally matching numbers are required. It has the advantage that you can go into city centres without the need for a catalytic converter on the car.



Or a handy alternative is the season number, which can be used on all cars. Essentially you nominate which months of the year you want the car on the road, and you only pay insurance and tax for those months. Its a minimum of 2 and a max of 11 months and they must be consecutive. The months appear at the end of the plate.




The final option is a 5 day number which includes all taxes, insurance (3rd party) for 5 days only. The last day of validity is printed at the end so its handy for a one off to visit a show. There is a Smart car around Dublin with one of these which is several years old, its a wonder customs never got onto him.

That's very interesting......so many good ideas there tbh.....and all go to making compliance something people have no issue with.

Which is so NOT the model around here, and which is why people rail against it so much.

kuro2k

alpina wrote: »

Classic Insurance; 20yr. +
Classic Tax; 30yr +

I have classic insurance on a 96 BMW 320i convertible so the 20yr rule doesn't always apply........ it all depends on the make/model of car