What is the penalty for cycling without lights?

Aka Ishur

Soooooooo after googling my little fingers away, reading through the relevant sections of the RTA, all for zip, I have come here seeking knowledge!

Question - What is the penalty for cycling in the dark with no lights?

Keep_Her_Lit

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Question - What is the penalty for cycling in the dark with no lights?

Being regarded as a POB by your cycling peers.

Captain Havoc

It used to be £50 for being a ninja. Don't do it, there's drivers out there like me who are terrible at driving in the dark.

Seweryn

Captain Havoc wrote: »

It used to be £50 for being a ninja. Don't do it, there's drivers out there like me who are terrible at driving in the dark.

The only good thing is that your commute route is different to mine, as I was a cycling ninja this evening unfortunately :mad:. My rechargable rear light just died and I had no back up. My fault, I know...

Chips Lovell

AFAIK, there isn't a set penalty. It's up to the judge to decide. Recent posts on here indicate that €200 or so is the going rate for breaking a red. I'd say you might be in a similar ball park.

Having said that, if I was cycling at night without lights, the fine is the last thing I'd be worried about.

carthoris

Choosing to cycle without lights indicates a measure of irresponsibility and foolishness. The penalty for this shall arrive perhaps far later in life and shall seem disproportionate to the event at hand.

As to your immediate concerns - I can only refer to my more learned colleagues.

Beasty

Hope everyone has their lights fitted on the centre line of the cycle or to the right of that line

le petit braquet

And how many of our fancy led rear lights comply with this?

(4) A rear lamp fitted to a cycle shall

(b) have an illuminated area of at least 2 square inches and of such a shape that a circle of 1 inch in diameter may be inscribed therein

Paul Kiernan

Beasty wrote: »

Hope everyone has their lights fitted on the centre line of the cycle or to the right of that line

Oh bugger, mine is on the left:eek:. And my rear light, though visible from a mile away, does not have a one inch circle area.

Dermot Illogical

In the worst case, death.

Beasty

Got to admit to falling foul of the reflector rules (I have more than the requisite area on my clothing, but not on the bike)

tomasrojo

So the rear light should be sufficently large so that a circle of 2.54cm diameter can be inscribed in it and that its area be at least 13 square centimetres. And that it's no more than 51cm from the rearmost part of the bicycle.

(I can't visualise imperial.)

I'm putting off doing the dishes, so I checked my Smart 1W. It seems to be about 16 square centimetres, though it's a bit hard to tell, as it's not a simple shape. I just pass the second law there, as my light isn't mounted on the seat post, but on a trailer hitch attached to the seat post. If it were mounted directly on the seatpost, it wouldn't be legal.

If they ever get round to spring cleaning these laws, they should alter those specifications. And maybe change it to metric.

tomasrojo

Beasty wrote: »

Got to admit to falling foul of the reflector rules (I have more than the requisite area on my clothing, but not on the bike)

So you get to decide what laws apply and what don't, do you?

Obey the rules, it's as simple as that.

(Just trying out the RLJ invective to see whether it works here.)

Kintarō Hattori

Seriously OP, at €2 for the set there is no excuse in the world for you not to have these as a back-up.

Beasty

tomasrojo wrote: »

And maybe change it to metric.

I suspect that on metrication the original act remains as written but all the amounts are effectively restated to their metric equivalent by virtue of the relevant (and subsequent) "metrication" act.

Beasty

tomasrojo wrote: »

So you get to decide what laws apply and what don't, do you?

One of the perks of being a mod;)
I could always try to play the "on my way to a race" card - maybe a bit difficult this time of year though ...

tomasrojo

Funnily enough, they were quite specific about the distance from which a reflector should be visible:

Every obligatory rear reflector shall be so constructed, fitted and maintained as to be plainly visible at night time in clear weather for a distance of 325 feet when illuminated by the head lamps of a mechanically propelled vehicle directly behind.

but not very specific about the lamps:

a) when lit, show to the rear [or front] of the cycle a red [or white/yellow] light visible during lighting-up hours for a reasonable distance

Beasty

The lack of consistency is strange so far as rear lights are concerned, but I have a suspicion that the 325 feet is linked to the "safe stopping distance" for a car.

I also suspect that when these rules were originally set the lights were significantly weaker than now, and there was much more emphasis on the reflector

tomasrojo

Ah yes, that must be it. The distance specified is about the distance a car would need to stop travelling on a dry road with good brakes at about 110km/h.
http://www.lireland.com/theory/stopping.htm

Lights would be many times weaker then than now, for sure. Lights are considerably better now than even ten years ago.

Beasty

tbh they lights would have been pretty unreliable also, with old-style batteries (no alkalines or lithiums in those days) and bulbs that were likely to blow at any time. I guess the reflector was considered a back-stop safety measure that did not rely on parts that could fail at any time

le petit braquet

325 feet (or 99.06 metres in new money) is also specified as the distance that a car headlight must illuminate

(3) The lamps shall, when lit, be capable of adequately illuminating the road for a distance of 325 feet in front of the vehicle at night time in clear weather.

Great cure for insomnia this!

exaisle

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Question - What is the penalty for cycling in the dark with no lights?

It's getting run over by a motorist who can't see you and at least an honourable mention in the Darwin Awards....

Jawgap

You are made to post in an internet forum and be subjected to public ridicule & mockery:):)

Outisde the court of public opinion, in the courts of justice it's anything from 100 to 400 notes, depending on the mood of the judge.

Aka Ishur

Haha nice lot of replies here, I probably should have clarified,

1. I did have lights, my lovely Exposure spark front and rears were stolen off the bike while I was in the office, (It was chained, in a secure private underground carpark, one of my co-workers is therefore theiving scum) leading me to have no choice in the matter.
2. All cycling was done within 5 minutes inside the well lit city centre.
3. Question arose simply as a matter of curiosity.
4. New lights are on their way from CRC as we speak.

droidus

99% of the time the guard will just tell you to produce them at your local station.

zefer

exaisle wrote: »

It's getting run over by a motorist who can't see you and at least an honourable mention in the Darwin Awards....

This....
If you are the "person" who was cycling dressed in dark clothes with no lights last night at about 6.50pm on the roundabout on the Tallaght bypass, that I nearly hit and then preceeded to stick their fingers up at me when I told you, grrrrr :mad:


edit: I see it wasnt you OP!

Doctor Bob

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Seriously OP, at €2 for the set there is no excuse in the world for you not to have these as a back-up.

I have a couple of these that I got free at a conference last year. Very handy as back-up lights (and to help my compliance with the 'centre line' rule, given the left-side mounting of the light on my Dutch bike).

Have you a link to where they're available for €2? Thanks.

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know the rationale for the centre/right-side mounting rule? I wondered about this when I got my bike (though I didn't know the law existed until last night). I can see arguments for centre mounting, right mounting and left mounting- one quite compelling argument for the left side concerns vehicles entering the main road from a left side road, where seeing a right-side mounted light might not be so easy (mine's fork-mounted, fyi).

One would assume that there's a technical/engineering basis for the law, though perhaps not, given the lack of a technical rationale for the legalisation of flashing lights in December 2009.

Captain Havoc

Seweryn wrote: »

The only good thing is that your commute route is different to mine, as I was a cycling ninja this evening unfortunately :mad:. My rechargable rear light just died and I had no back up. My fault, I know...

That's not a good road to be invisible on, especially before Castleinch. PS I'm joining a gym this evening with the intention of cycling to work once or twice a week, if I do this the petrol money saved will pay for membership.

Beasty wrote: »

Hope everyone has their lights fitted on the centre line of the cycle or to the right of that line

I actually knew that, how sad am I?

From a drivers perspective, ninjas are a pain in the ass, last night a saw a guy with a weak rear light and I saw him fairly late so I think a good rear light as opposed to any auld light is very important.

Kintarō Hattori

Doctor Bob wrote: »

I have a couple of these that I got free at a conference last year. Very handy as back-up lights (and to help my compliance with the 'centre line' rule, given the left-side mounting of the light on my Dutch bike).

Have you a link to where they're available for €2? Thanks.

They are €2 in various 'pound shops'. I got them in the one on Georges Street.

I had a quick look on eBay and found these for €1.01 delivered so now there really REALLY is no excuse not to have back-ups. I'll just say that again people...... €1.01 delivered:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-1-Brand-New-Mini-Bright-LED-Bicycle-Bike-Safety-Light-/360412856216?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ea47bf98

I also came across these:
€2.07 delivered
€1.69 delivered

Beasty

Captain Havoc wrote: »

.
I actually knew that, how sad am I?

If anyone gets challenged in this one, I recommend turning the bike round and saying "it is on the right sir";)

I have my rear light on the right simply because it means anyone only seeing the light and not me still gives the maximum clearance when overtaking.

In terms of the front light, having it on the right allows me to point it slightly towards the kerb, and minimise the risk of dazzling any oncoming drivers

Mycroft H

They're great as a back up. Full time rear light for me is a smart superflash at 15 quid a go they are great value.

Seweryn

Captain Havoc wrote: »

That's not a good road to be invisible on, especially before Castleinch.

No, it is bad enough road and I know it is unbelievably irresponsible not to have a good rear light (working, obviously).
I am very happy with the light I have. It is very bright and you can see it from a mile away. Well, it is all fine until the battery is charged .

This morning another trouble happened - I was cycling in the rain and the front light went :mad:. It came back on after it get dried out, but I sent it back as warranty issue and so I have a very poor Lidl front light for the next two weeks or so. No good...

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I'm joining a gym this evening with the intention of cycling to work once or twice a week, if I do this the petrol money saved will pay for membership.

Excellent. It is not only the savings on petrol you are making, but wear and tear / service items also. I wish I could claim my €2 per day for the motor tax on my car that sits in the garage unused :rolleyes:.

Kintarō Hattori

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

I had a quick look on eBay and found these for €1.01 delivered so now there really REALLY is no excuse not to have back-ups. I'll just say that again people...... €1.01 delivered:

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-1-Brand-New-Mini-Bright-LED-Bicycle-Bike-Safety-Light-/360412856216?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ea47bf98

Right, nothing infuriates me more than a ninja cyclist so I ordered a few sets of the above to carry with me in my backpack. When I see a really bad ninja cyclist and if it looks like they ain't the type to take offence and kick my arse I'll do my best to stop them, let them know that no lights ain't cool/could possibly land them with a €200 fine and give them a pair. A little edumacation is always good.

A good idea or a stupidly bad one?

Lumen

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

A good idea or a stupidly bad one?

I guess it depends on how hard you throw the lights at them. Those ninjas have quick reflexes.

bogmanfan

I was waiting for my missus outside her office last week on the Dundrum Rd at around 6pm. Unbelievable how many cyclists passed dressed in dark clothes and with no lights. Well over 50% had no lights at all, and of the ones that did, some were no brighter than a candle. The only ones I saw with decent lights were on road bikes.

Ellis Dee

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Seriously OP, at €2 for the set there is no excuse in the world for you not to have these as a back-up.

Absolutely right. And they are so small you can permanently have them in your pocket or around your neck on a chain.

As to the question in the OP, the maximum penalty for not having a light on your bicycle is de facto death. :eek: