Votive candles in place of real candles..When and why?

Onesimus

When did we get these dreadful votive lights placed in Church? and why? When I was young it cost you 20p to light a REAL candle to the Blessed Virgin Mary ( We still light real candles in Byzantine parishes ). Why on earth did they do away with this real burning light and exchange it for a rubbish electronic one? costing about 30 cents.

Bring back that real lovely smell of candles and authentic light is what I say.

I bet some of the excuses is, ''they cost too much'' but real candles cost were covered by the donation. Another response may be ''They cause fires'' and yet for over 2000 years we get on well with real candles in Eastern Churches as did the real ones in the Roman Churches. I dont get it.

I think it's motive was out of pure laziness so they didnt have to clean the wax or bother getting candles in all the time.

The Quadratic Equation

Agree 100%, another dismantling exercise by the guitar and tambourine brigade who wish to throw out anything traditional. Since the misuse of Vatican II, they've managed to destroy the interiors of most Catholic churches. Problem is they can dream up 101 pseudo excuses like fire safety, security, health & safety etc. as if such problems just appeared in the 21st century.

Manach

I agree with ye both on the merits of candles. However, an advantage of the votives is that they are easier to light, which is a advantage to the more elderly church-goers.

Onesimus

Manach. I see plenty of elderly lighting real candles at Church on Sunday. All they do is pick up a little taper and then um well yeah ....light the candle... it aint that hard.

I say bring'em back. But hey, I doubt my little post here on Boards in going to have any weight in that decision lol.

LordSutch

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Since the misuse of Vatican II, they've managed to destroy the interiors of most Catholic churches.

How, what have they done to the interiors?

PDN

LordSutch wrote: »

How, what have they done to the interiors?

Blackened by candle smoke?

Doc Farrell

PDN wrote: »

LordSutch wrote: »

How, what have they done to the interiors?

Blackened by candle smoke?

Every church, bar none, I've been in has candles galore in the last few weeks. If its a real concern i'm sure if you contact the parish priest and organise a funding to replace the electric gizmos , he'll be only too happy to listen.
Now that i think about it some of the electric candles are in oratories in pretty rough areas, so it might be an insurance thingy.

LordSutch

So let me get this right, they've upped the candle usage in Churches since Vatican II.

Is that correct, and if so, why?

Doc Farrell

LordSutch wrote: »

So let me get this right, they've upped the candle usage in Churches since Vatican II.

Is that correct, and if so, why?

Eh, not sure how you managed to read that. Some churches are electric, some not, most a mix. Some electric ones have been replaced by real candles, some haven't. If you need i can cut and paste from the internet various parish leaflets about this but i suspect you know how already.
Nobody is forced to light candles just as no one is forced to pray inside a church. So, no, there hasn't been an increase or decrease in candle usage recently.
Im thinking of lighting one right now to pray for interweb guidance.
Google is not your enemy.

Lady Chuckles

Doesn't it wreck the whole experience if it's not real candles?
It probably would for me anyway.

Onesimus

Lady Chuckles wrote: »

Doesn't it wreck the whole experience if it's not real candles?
It probably would for me anyway.

It does, it totally destroys it.

Onesimus

Doc Farrell wrote: »

Every church, bar none, I've been in has candles galore in the last few weeks. If its a real concern i'm sure if you contact the parish priest and organise a funding to replace the electric gizmos , he'll be only too happy to listen.
Now that i think about it some of the electric candles are in oratories in pretty rough areas, so it might be an insurance thingy.

I have to say though, I come from one of the roughest areas in my region and never EVER did I ever see anyone muck about with the candles in a nasty way.

Its just another modernist approach and trying to make us more ''modern'' and destroy our great devotional traditions.

yammycat

Real candles cost a lot more money, people light them without donating.
Real candles have greater overheads, both in space needed to store them, keeping track of stock and arranging purchasing or delivery.
real candles make a mess with wax dripping everywhere and half melted candles stuck to the stand, they need to be cleaned regularly.
Real candles are a fire hazard and may cause insurance premiums to increase.

The electric versions are plug them in and forget about it, little wonder they are popular.

Onesimus

Real candles cost a lot more money, people light them without donating

This kind of thing is exremely rare and with the electric lights burning a lot longer than the real candles all day, it would cost them more in Electricity one would imagine.

Real candles have greater overheads, both in space needed to store them,

This is a poor reason not to have them, Churches have plenty of storage, they have been storing them for centuries.

keeping track of stock and arranging purchasing or delivery.

Keeping stock is called ''work'' something priests should not be shy of.

real candles make a mess with wax dripping everywhere and half melted candles stuck to the stand, they need to be cleaned regularly.

They have been cleaning them for centuries. Gives the sacristan something to do.

Real candles are a fire hazard and may cause insurance premiums to increase.

Insurance has never been a problem for centuries and still not a problem for most parishes today who still use real candles.

Doc Farrell

Well I guess it's my own fault for clicking on this thread but I fail to see the actual point of all this. Not many people like electric candles but they've been around for 30 years and they're not exactly taking over the world.
As for priests being lazy or work shy I don't think many ordinary Catholics who know priests would agree with that.
So what really was the point of this thread except to make an argument against dastardly modernists? Worth the effort? Wouldn't it be better to make a list of all the modernist changes since Vatican 11 that you don't like and then propose how you intend to do something about it?
Or is this genuinely what you regard as a valuable use of your time? Because to me these threads seem similar to the trolling threads from the late night crazies.
Anyway, enough time wasted.

tommy2bad

LordSutch wrote: »

So let me get this right, they've upped the candle usage in Churches since Vatican II.

Is that correct, and if so, why?

No somone was being smart with the thread title.
The churches were redesigned after V2 to acomodate the new mass rite, priest facing the congregation, no side alters etc. A lot of beautiful high alters were torn out and replaced with plasterboard or worse fashionable wood paneling at the time.
Oddly a lot of the old pubs were redecorated around the same time, keeping up with the Joneses or the competition?

Peregrinus

Onesimus wrote: »

This kind of thing is exremely rare and with the electric lights burning a lot longer than the real candles all day, it would cost them more in Electricity one would imagine.

Even if they did burn all day (which they don't; they usually expire on a timer) the electric candles are considerably cheaper than the wax. And much lower-maintenance. These are probably the factors which account for their popularity.

I doubt that it has much to do with the liturgical changes since Vatican II. People have been lamenting the electric candles since they started to become widespread in the 1950s. (They were later arriving in Ireland, though.)

The bottom line is that, like yourself, I would have an aesthetic preference for wax candles. But I'm not the person who has to replenish the candle stocks and chip the wax drippings off the floor (which is a bugger of a job, if you've ever had to do it) and I refuse to get worked up about this issue. I think the church has bigger issues, frankly.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Onesimus

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This is the case in my Byzantine parish and most Eastern Churches both Catholic and Orthodox.

I'm not sure I've ever seen Roman Churches do it.

yammycat

Onesimus wrote: »

This kind of thing is exremely rare and with the electric lights burning a lot longer than the real candles all day, it would cost them more in Electricity one would imagine.



This is a poor reason not to have them, Churches have plenty of storage, they have been storing them for centuries.



Keeping stock is called ''work'' something priests should not be shy of.



They have been cleaning them for centuries. Gives the sacristan something to do.



Insurance has never been a problem for centuries and still not a problem for most parishes today who still use real candles.

OK but when you get down to it you want the priests to work more, pay more, and clean up etc because you find real candles to be prettier than electric ones.

I could be wrong but I don't think christianity holds a burning flame in higher regard than any other mark of respect you wish to pay someone or any moments thought you wish to give someone.

Why not do the Christian thing and consider the priest has more important things to be doing than counting wax candles.

Seriously...

Lady Chuckles

^^ I don't think it's the priest who actually minds the candles... At least not in my church. We have janitors for that.

tommy2bad

I could be wrong but I don't think christianity holds a burning flame in higher regard than any other mark of respect you wish to pay someone or any moments thought you wish to give someone.

Whatever about then, I hold a real candle in higher regard, but it may be as valid a distinction as a book v book voucher debate.

yammycat

tommy2bad wrote: »

Whatever about then, I hold a real candle in higher regard

Fair enough, feel free to light candles in your own home and have to worry about whether the place is going to burn down, thats the funny thing, people will talk about how real candles are so much better and they will happily light them in a church and walk away with no concern but you can be damn sure if they left a few candles burning unsupervised in their own home there would be nothing else on their mind, nothing else but whether there would be a burning pile of cinders upon their return home.

Lady Chuckles

Most churches are made from stone, though... Not likely to burn down as such.

On that note... OP, do you think the reason to why they're not using candles in your church anymore is because they're scared the church will burn down?

Onesimus

Lady Chuckles wrote: »

Most churches are made from stone, though... Not likely to burn down as such.

On that note... OP, do you think the reason to why they're not using candles in your church anymore is because they're scared the church will burn down?

In all their years of using the real candles, never once was it ever in danger of burning down. I can understand if the floor was all carpet, but it aint.

So in saying that I dont think thats why they stopped using real candles. Many poor churches with little or no priests in them continue to use real candles so I dont think it's a monetary problem.

Plus there are candles with casings around them that are deemed even safter than say...the stick candles without and still they dont use them.

I miss going in to light a real candle and see the real light burn before me instead of some stupid button I press only to see some artificial light come on. meh.

Lady Chuckles

Perhaps you could ask them why the changed? If you're lucky maybe they'd even bring back the real candles

I always light a candle when I visit the church. Often I light it for dear ones who are no longer with me and the fact that the candle is "alive" makes me think they're alive too

tommy2bad

Candles and an insurance policy beat a collection box as a church renovation fund raiser, just saying