Finding the right training plan

nellocono

Hi Folks,
I am looking to follow a training plan to get a bit more structure to my training regime. At the moment I am just out running with no focus on time or distance. I am currently up to about 15 miles on a LSR but havent done it in a while now... The goal is a marathon (Prob Cork) next year in a very ambitious sub 3.30 time.

Most importantly I am looking for a plan that specifically details what speed and heart rate i should be hitting on my runs. My problem I feel is that I run my fast runs too slow and my slow runs too fast, so I would like to address this...

Any opinions on this plan:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-garmin-ready-marathon-schedule-sub-330/2764.html

RoverHogan

You could try using the mcmillian calculator to get an idea of the different paces you should be running at in your training runs. I used it this year and found it very beneficial.

For the marathon, I'd highly recommend Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger and Douglas.

nellocono

Thanks.
Do you know if the P&D program is available on the net or must you purchase the book?

ger664

Before you go getting the book, A small bit of running history might help us here.

Is this your first marathon ?

How many miles/week can you comfortable do at present ?

Any history of running injuries ?

Most recent 10K or half Marathon time ?

RoverHogan

There is one of them here but I'd recommend the book because its full of extra information that you can dip in and out of... maybe put it on the Santa List:D

nellocono

Hi Ger,

I know the P&D program is at advanced level. I would class myself more as a beginner really (started at the beginning of summer 2011)...

Best 5K: 21.30 (hope to go sub 20 in 2012)
Best 5Mile: 37.30
Best Half Marathon (first and only one): 1.51 - was a bit conservative because I wasn't sure of the distance...

Doing about 30 miles a week but will begin to increase this over the coming weeks.

Yes my first marathon and no running injuries or history, have always had a reasonable level of fitness due to sport....

nellocono

Thanks Rover...

Wow..Just took a read off the P&D and I am no where at that level...starting off at 53 miles might put me in an early grave...

Maybe I can use the same principals but somewhat less mileage?

Peckham

nellocono wrote: »

Thanks Rover...

Wow..Just took a read off the P&D and I am no where at that level...starting off at 53 miles might put me in an early grave...

Maybe I can use the same principals but somewhat less mileage?

Don't let the title of that book put you off. Whilst you might not follow one of the specific plans it outlines, it is a goldmine of training information and is probably has the best explanation of how marathon training plans are built and what you gain from each element. The lowest mileage plan in the book peaks at 55 miles in a week (starting at maybe 30 miles I think). Highly recommend by many around here.

As a debut marathoner, it's worth checking out Hal Higdon's book too.

With a 15 mile LSR already, you're in better shape than most first time marathoner.

Peckham

...double post...

ger664

As you only have been running for 6 months, even with an 15 miles LSR under your belt, you still will have a very small aerobic base to attempt any of P&D plans.

I doubt that you are in shape for a 3:30 marathon now. you should always calculate your training paces against your current ability not your desired finish time. Currently IMO you are about 3:55 pace.

Concentrate on doing nothing but Slow Easy Runs 9:30 or over pace. between now and 12/13 weeks before Cork. No need to concentrate too much on mileage but get to a comfortable Long run of ~2 hours would be good with 2 other Hour long runs in the same week. Every other run in between these sessions should be 30-45 min recovery run. Every 3 weeks fire in a recovery Week (don't run over an hour) to give the body a rest or whenever your body asks for it.

Then slot into whatever week is appropriate for either of Hal Higdon's Novice Plans.

Read the DCM Novice Thread's in the Logs sub forum, there's a lot of good solid advice in them.

Once you finish Cork then you will be well equipped for a P&D schedule aimed at Dublin in October.

nellocono

ger664 wrote: »

Concentrate on doing nothing but Slow Easy Runs 9:30 or over pace.

This is something I always get slightly confused over. Would you mind explaining the benefit of running long and slow all the time and not throwing in any speed training or hills runs etc just to change it up a bit and keep the lungs ready for hard action?

I guess in a marathon its all about mileage in the legs and breathing not as much a factor like the short runs. I would still like to remain somewhat fast as I quite enjoy the 5k races and will plan to do a few over the spring and summer etc.

Thnaks

village runner

nellocono wrote: »

This is something I always get slightly confused over. Would you mind explaining the benefit of running long and slow all the time and not throwing in any speed training or hills runs etc just to change it up a bit and keep the lungs ready for hard action?

I guess in a marathon its all about mileage in the legs and breathing not as much a factor like the short runs. I would still like to remain somewhat fast as I quite enjoy the 5k races and will plan to do a few over the spring and summer etc.

Thnaks

Your new to running. You need to get a good base. By running long and slow you build endurance without having the effect of recovering from. You can do a speed session 2-3 days later a tempo 2 days later and another long one.
The problem and the reason slower runners wont and dont improve is they want to run fast all the time. When it comes to races i am afraid to say most of them leave it in training. I knew a lad that always said 8 min miles were easy. He ran all his runs at that pace. He couldnt go near it for a marathon. But some people just want ot run fast. I do my long ones at 7.30 a mile and can run a marathon a min quicker a mile. If i ran a 20 miler at marathon pace it would take me 3-4 weeks to recover.

opus

nellocono wrote: »

Hi Folks,
I am looking to follow a training plan to get a bit more structure to my training regime. At the moment I am just out running with no focus on time or distance. I am currently up to about 15 miles on a LSR but havent done it in a while now... The goal is a marathon (Prob Cork) next year in a very ambitious sub 3.30 time.

Most importantly I am looking for a plan that specifically details what speed and heart rate i should be hitting on my runs. My problem I feel is that I run my fast runs too slow and my slow runs too fast, so I would like to address this...

Any opinions on this plan:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-garmin-ready-marathon-schedule-sub-330/2764.html

I followed one of those RW plans for Berlin last year and was a little disappointed to come in ~3 mins outside my target, then switched to P&D with the same goal and came in ~12 mins ahead of my target in April this year so they definitely get the nod from me. I'm sure the extra six months or so of running helped me as well of course.

Just my experience, your mileage might vary!

ger664

nellocono wrote: »

This is something I always get slightly confused over. Would you mind explaining the benefit of running long and slow all the time and not throwing in any speed training or hills runs etc just to change it up a bit and keep the lungs ready for hard action?

I guess in a marathon its all about mileage in the legs and breathing not as much a factor like the short runs. I would still like to remain somewhat fast as I quite enjoy the 5k races and will plan to do a few over the spring and summer etc.

Thnaks

Its more specific to you as you only have ~5 months running/training done. If you had asked about a 10K program I would have told you to do the same for 8 weeks and then do a 6 week targeted program. Your biggest room for improvement now (like most people new to middle/long distance running) is to improve your aerobic capacity, this in turn will improve your 5K+ times as well.

Basically increasing your aerobic capacity increase the amount of lactic acid your system can clear, thus your Lactate Threshold will be at a higher effort/pace.

Clearlier

Another vote for P&D.

The 18 week 55 mile plan in P&D is well within your scope - I'd start you on it immediately. The real question is whether you want to use the time between now and the start of the 18 weeks to get yourself ready for the 55 - 70 plan. If you're light, durable (rarely injured), biomechanically sound, ambitious and focused on the marathon then you could do it. If you're missing one of those then I'd stick to the up to 55 mile plan - you can always do the 55 - 70 plan for your next one - generally patience is rewarded in the marathon .

In order to do the up to 55 mile plan P&D recommends that you be running 25mpw and have recently completed a run of close to 12 miles.

In order to do the 55 - 70 mile plan P&D recommends that you be running 45mpw and have recently completed a run of close to 15 miles.

If you're thinking about taking on the longer plan don't do it lightly - if you were to find the shorter one to not be challenging enough (starts at 33 miles) then you could always beef it up a little by adding in a short extra run.

It's well worth buying the book - it explains the different types of runs and their purpose in a pretty accessible fashion.