Downlights keep 'tripping'

Posy

I have downlights (GU10's) downstairs in my house, and four in the bathroom, upstairs.
A couple of weeks ago, when I switched the ones on in my kitchen, they flashed and blew the trip switch- none of the downlights worked (downstairs only) until I reset the switch, of course. After that, the dimmer switch in the kitchen hasn't worked anymore but the lights in the kitchen are okay.
Now, the downlights in the kitchen have 'tripped' and blown the rest at least twice more so I'm thinking I need an electrician.
I've had to change about 2 bulbs in the last 4-5 months, so they're not burning out particularly excessively.

I'm just looking for opinions before I get an electrician, so I'm not totally clueless. Does it sound like a big problem? I was told before something about the downlights not being earthed- is this connected?

Any advice from those in the know would be gratefully appreciated.

JOHNPT

Possibly you are using cheap GU 10 bulbs which don't last long. Also if there is insulation in the ceiling above the downlights they will reduce the life of the bulbs. Also possible you have a loose or bad connections which is causing MCB to trip.

Posy

Cheers- I doubt it's the bulbs, because, like I said, I've only had to change two in 5 months, and they were here when I moved in..
I don't mind changing bulbs anyway, it's blowing the fuse that concerns me! sure I'll see what the electrician says anyway, thanks!

wait4me

Just a thought - are you sure that the bulbs are dimmable? I had a problem like this and it turned out it was the bulbs which were not dimmable. Blew the heck out of the dimmer and some bulbs. A simple on/off switch made the difference.

M cebee

wait4me wrote: »

Just a thought - are you sure that the bulbs are dimmable? I had a problem like this and it turned out it was the bulbs which were not dimmable. Blew the heck out of the dimmer and some bulbs. A simple on/off switch made the difference.

gu10 halogen are dimmable

-the SC knackered the dimmer by the look of it

wait4me

Sorry I should have said that my bulbs were 'undimmable' LEDs.

Posy

Another bulb has blown today. Looks like they blow a fuse just before a bulb blows. Maybe it is just connected to the bulbs.. I hope it's not serious anyway, I don't know if I can afford an electrician until after Christmas! Sure, I'll wait and see if it happens again before calling in the professionals!

wait4me

Are your GU10's halogen or LED?

Posy

Halogen.
If I wanted to replace them with LED's at some stage, would I have to get new light fixings or just change all the bulbs? (LED's don't work with dimmers though, no?)
I'll get a new dimmer in the next day or so and see will it work- I miss my dimming, they're like floodlights without it!

I'm finding them very hard to change at the moment. There's a blown bulb that just will not come out of the light socket! Does anyone else find them stubborn buggers to change, or is it just me??
No blown fuse so far today anyway!

meercat

the tripswitch will trip when the bulb blows
you will not need new fittings for led replacement bulbs(the dimmer will need to dim leds though)
sometimes if you prise the fitting down from the ceiling you can access the bulb allowing easier removal

ask at your local wholesalers for one of these
they stick to your gu10 bulbs and allow you to twist them in/out easier
if you cant get one pm me and i will post one off foc;)

M cebee

kitchen rubber gloves are handy for the gu10

meercat

M cebee wrote: »

kitchen rubber gloves are handy for the gu10

why didnt i think of that
theres always a simple solution:D

M cebee

Posy wrote: »

Halogen.
If I wanted to replace them with LED's at some stage, would I have to get new light fixings or just change all the bulbs? (LED's don't work with dimmers though, no?)
I'll get a new dimmer in the next day or so and see will it work- I miss my dimming, they're like floodlights without it!

I'm finding them very hard to change at the moment. There's a blown bulb that just will not come out of the light socket! Does anyone else find them stubborn buggers to change, or is it just me??
No blown fuse so far today anyway!

i wouldn't fit a dimmer yet if there's a possible fault

did bulbs in the kitchen blow at the same time as tripswitch or no?

Posy

Yes, I think they did. I never knew that'd be connected to the tripswitch before! I'm new to all this downlight business!

JOHNPT

I have found with some of the cheaper GU10 bulbs when they blow they sometimes trip the MCB - most of the better quality bulbs are internally fused which prevents this

Posy

One other thing, if you guys don't mind.. I was reading through the other thread on LEDs and had two queries-
So, if I want to switch to LEDs, would I have to get an electrician to check the light fittings first? (I seen words like 'transformer' and have no idea what any of that means to be honest)
(and there are LEDs you can get that work with dimmer switches, yeah?)
Would you have to change completely to LEDs? I assume you can't mix and match.

The lower wattage and fact that they don't get as hot appeals to me.

(I know these are dumb questions, but I'm clueless when it comes to this type of thing, but I don't want to try anything that could be unsafe when it comes to electricity...)

RoundyMooney

Not the case here necessarily, but folks should be aware too that there are godawful chinese gu10 lamps circulating at the moment, with lighter filaments and no internal fusing, instant death for any dimmer switch when they fail.

To add to the enjoyment, they have no getter within the bulb (the reflective coating behind the filament), with the result that they throw just as much light and heat upward as they do in a downward direction. I've seen a few cases already where the wiring above the fitting has melted and caused tripping as a result (luckily in all cases the fitting was correctly earthed). One can only imagine the heat build up, which is bad in normal circumstances anyway.

These things are lethal!

.G.

You can mix and match,you can buy LEDS and fit to your existing fittings if the bulbs you currently have are GU10.Some LED lamps are dimmable,some are not.Ask when you buy.

Transformers are used with GU5.3 lamps,not GU10 so you are good to go to make the switch if you have GU10 lamps currently

I have Philips master 4w in my house and they are great,I have the non dimmable version but there is a dimmable version and also a 7w version.



GU5.3



GU10

RoundyMooney

@ posy, you'd be replacing like for like, mains LEDs for your existing halogens, no transformers required.

Dimmable stuff costs more, have a tame sparks have a quick look at the installation to put your mind at ease, and advise you on the cost of what you're hoping to do. Two birds with the one stone.

ocy

Hi, I am looking to get some of the Philips Master 4W LEDs they sound exactly like what I am looking for, don't need the dimmable version. Need to purchase around 14 of them anyone know of a good place to buy them. Thanks in advance

freddyuk

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Not the case here necessarily, but folks should be aware too that there are godawful chinese gu10 lamps circulating at the moment, with lighter filaments and no internal fusing, instant death for any dimmer switch when they fail.

To add to the enjoyment, they have no getter within the bulb (the reflective coating behind the filament), with the result that they throw just as much light and heat upward as they do in a downward direction. I've seen a few cases already where the wiring above the fitting has melted and caused tripping as a result (luckily in all cases the fitting was correctly earthed). One can only imagine the heat build up, which is bad in normal circumstances anyway.

These things are lethal!

Is this one manufacturer or are you talking generally? Are these CE marked? ROHS certificate?

RoundyMooney

freddyuk wrote: »

Is this one manufacturer or are you talking generally? Are these CE marked? ROHS certificate?

Yes, in my own experience, to the first, and I'm not sure about the last two, but I doubt it. I will check and let you know though.

Posy

Would 4 watt LEDs be about the same as a 50 watt halogen? Although, to be honest, I wouldn't mind if they weren't quite as bright.

Thanks for all the information, folks.

.G.

The 4w are 30w halogen equivalent but if you have enough of them they'll be fine.

I replaced 5 50w halogens in my kitchen with 4w LED and they are plenty bright.

Posy

Thanks!
Well, there are eight downlights in my kitchen, so 4w certainly sounds plenty!

whizbang

If you have 8 GU10s on one circiut, the startup current will take out most dimmers sooner or later. and will trip the mains.
replace as many as possible you need with dimmable LEDs, but dont replace the dimmer until all LEDS are fitted. But you said dont really need a dimmer..so replace with a standard switch.
Im getting on my soapbox now, but the good quality halogen bulbs will all have a very similar lifetime: can be 1 or 2 hours between bulbs that have been there for 3 years!
so it can seem that they are all blowing at once. then replacing them with cheap sh*t really gets annoying...:P