Engineering for weaker maths student?

donmoister

Would anyone who has done an engineering course in UCD or Trinity or UL etc. advise me not to do engineering, for being weaker at maths than other subjects. I was always a good all-round student, getting all B's everything higher junior cert- Although I did get a few maths grinds. However, I only barely passed my 5th year summer and 6th year Christmas tests for the leaving at higher level. Basically I find it difficult to grasp in class, without the explanation of someone else. Also I didn't pick physics or chemistry, as I picked biology instead purely to have one science subject to keep options open, and out of the three science subjects, biology would be the easiest for points maximisation in the lc. I want to become an engineer (preferred discipline would be chem), but maybe I need to be more reasonable as I've heard engineering maths and physics gets very hard in 3rd and 4th year.

Captain Chaos

I'd go to DIT if I was after an Engineering course. They are far more catering maths wise and their engineering courses are far better than Trinity or UCD. Far more hands on understanding.

donmoister

But what about university ranking and job prospects after graduating?

pljudge321

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I'd go to DIT if I was after an Engineering course. They are far more catering maths wise and their engineering courses are far better than Trinity or UCD. Far more hands on understanding.

Highly dependant on what area you are planning on getting into.

cozzie55

donmoister wrote: »

Would anyone who has done an engineering course in UCD or Trinity or UL etc. advise me not to do engineering, for being weaker at maths than other subjects. I was always a good all-round student, getting all B's everything higher junior cert- Although I did get a few maths grinds. However, I only barely passed my 5th year summer and 6th year Christmas tests for the leaving at higher level. Basically I find it difficult to grasp in class, without the explanation of someone else. Also I didn't pick physics or chemistry, as I picked biology instead purely to have one science subject to keep options open, and out of the three science subjects, biology would be the easiest for points maximisation in the lc. I want to become an engineer (preferred discipline would be chem), but maybe I need to be more reasonable as I've heard engineering maths and physics gets very hard in 3rd and 4th year.

Being honest in UCD most of the maths and pure chemistry and physics is covered in first year and all of the different eng course do the same module. Most people who drop out of engineering do so because they are worried that the rest of years will be the same and they may have to sit say chemistry even though it might not be required for there chosen field
In fact I think if you can survive first year maths you should be ok because then the maths and physics become more specialised to your course and easier to manage.

Thats not to say that the math isn't the most important subject you could have going in engineering because it is and the stronger you are at the better for yourself but there are plenty of support centres and tutorials available for it in most colleges.

If you feel that you still wouldn't be strong enough at maths then maybe you should do a level 7 course that is more practically based and then progress to level 8 once finished if you feel you would be able for it.

danthefan

In Trinity you'll have 2 maths modules a year for 3 years I think. Some if it is fairly rough and seemed closer to pure maths than to anything you'd need for engineering. As in it was stuff that wasn't especially relevant to the other modules you did. If you're not great at maths I wouldn't go to Trinity.

Kavrocks

donmoister wrote: »

But what about university ranking and job prospects after graduating?

Considering that you haven't mentioned any of the universities I was told were the best for studying Engineering in by employers in the industry before I made my CAO choice 2 years ago I don't see why you should be worrying.

If your programme of choice is listed here then you needn't worry so much about university ranking as you will leave each course with a similar skill set.

Captain Chaos

donmoister wrote: »

But what about university ranking and job prospects after graduating?

Means next to nothing anymore tbh. All our third levels are dropping in ranking like the Titanic. They are all as good as each other now.

rickyjb

OP, I think there are a few things you need to consider here. First of all I wouldn't dismiss engineering out of hand because you don't think you're good at maths. From what I've heard the quality of maths teachers at secondary level can vary a lot and may account for your poor results - you need to ask yourself if you enjoy the subject and if you think you have a natural aptitude for it.

As someone who did chem eng in ucd I'd be hesitant to recommend the course to someone who felt their maths wasn't up to scratch and didn't have physics or chemistry. Not having a good basis in at least 2 of these 3 subjects means you will have a lot of catching up to do in 1st year. For any engineering course you should be aware starting first year that you have extra work to do to catch up on what most other people would have learned for their leaving cert. I didn't have physics or applied maths and barely scraped these subjects in 1st and 2nd year (mainly down to good luck really). It's not so much that maths and physics get really difficult in 3rd and 4th year, things do get more specific to your course but you do need a decent enough standard of maths by this stage.

All this said if you're willing to put the work in and catch up, particularly in first year, there's no reason why you shouldn't go for it. When you think of improving your maths do you see it as a challenge or a chore? If it's something you don't think you'll put the time into and try to scrape by then I wouldn't recommend engineering. If you're enthusiastic enough about it and put the work in then your results or subject choices so far shouldn't be an obstacle.

Hope this helps.

CatFromHue

There are free Maths tutorial/grinds videos run by Engineers Ireland on the link below:

http://www.steps.ie/maths/maths-video/videos.aspx

Have a look through them they may be of help.

For what it's worth in my Leaving Cert year my maths teacher told me I should drop to Ordinary level. I didn't and with some work got a C in Higher in the Leaving itself.

donmoister

I feel that I would take it as a challenge, and I would have the desire, but how long this desire would last and whether it would be enough, I don't know..

Rob_Ireland

I've just finished process and chem eng in UCC.

In 1st year there are some intense maths modules and one or two in 2nd year. Also physics in 1st year will be difficult enough with no applied maths done, although leaving cert physics will be of little use to you to be honest so don't worry about that!

If you see these as a challenge rather than a chore then go for it, once you get past these modules the work gets more job focused, with less complicated maths/physics and more work which requires a good engineering mind and the ability to see the linking parts of a problem.

However I would stress that maths/physics in the first 2 years can be quite difficult so don't take it lightly. If you go in with a good hard working attitude and are open to taking a few grinds i'm sure you could continue on to get real benefit from more job focused modules in later years.

rickyjb

donmoister wrote: »

I feel that I would take it as a challenge, and I would have the desire, but how long this desire would last and whether it would be enough, I don't know..

If you want to have a career in engineering and have some aptitude you should make it, I found the support from classmates/lecturers/the department good as well.

Btw I noticed one of your other threads on the front page a few mins ago, are you currently studying B&L in UCD?

donmoister

Yes that's correct. I'm currently thinking of dropping out of it..

rickyjb

Ah, I misread your first post, it sounded like you were in sixth year in secondary school.

Best of luck with whatever you decide anyway.

gOst

Just out interest OP, if you haven't done chemistry or physics and aren't particularly strong in Mathematics, what is it about chemical engineering or engineering in general makes you want to to it. (I'm not trying to be have a go, just wondering what's motivating you to pursue engineering).

Just addressing your question, if you are willing to work at it, the maths I think is generally doable. I suppose it really comes down to the individual and how much effort they are willing to put in. If you decided to drop out of B&L, you've got 9 months to work on your maths and physics. Just get a really good understanding of the basics and you'll be fine.

Turbulent Bill

gOst wrote: »

Just out interest OP, if you haven't done chemistry or physics and aren't particularly strong in Mathematics, what is it about chemical engineering or engineering in general makes you want to to it. (I'm not trying to be have a go, just wondering what's motivating you to pursue engineering).

I'd echo this. Most people that do engineering come at it from a physics/chem/applied maths background because the subjects appealed to them in school, rather than purely picking subjects for easy points.

I wouldn't be overly worried about weak maths once you work on it (takes a lot of practice to be comfortable).

Benny Cake

As long as the OP is willing to put in the work there should be no issue with getting up to scratch with the Maths required in most degree level engineering courses.. I graduated from the biomedical engineering course in UL a few years back and know plenty of lads that struggled with maths at school and graduated with 1.1 degrees..
Only word of caution is to make sure you check the minimum course requirements for anything you put down on the CAO. I know in my time, UL had a minimum requirement of a C3 in honours maths for entry into the engineering courses... Best of luck & don't hesitate to get in touch if you need any help...

Frank Black

danthefan wrote: »

In Trinity you'll have 2 maths modules a year for 3 years I think. Some if it is fairly rough and seemed closer to pure maths than to anything you'd need for engineering. As in it was stuff that wasn't especially relevant to the other modules you did. If you're not great at maths I wouldn't go to Trinity.

I'd agree, the Maths was tough in Trinity, and pretty much completely irrelevant for most engineering careers.

cruizer101

I think part of the issue here is people think of engineering as a single specific area, when in fact it cover a huge range of different skills and abilities. I did mechanical engineering in Trinity which was very theory based and had a lot of maths in it. I've now gone down the road of becoming an engineering and tech drawing teacher in which I'll only need a limited amount of maths.
I've friends who went on to do research in which there would have been some crzy maths involved the kind of stuff you would only do otherwise in a maths degree.
I've another friend who did Civil engineering and now works on site the main part of his job is as a manager, not saying he doesn't need some of what learnt in Engineering but it is a smaller part of his job.

So as you can see it can lead down many roads, my own feelings would be if you aren't too strong at maths Trinity wouldn't be the best choice, part of the degree is getting an ordinary level maths degree as well so it does require a lot of maths.

I would have thought chemical engineering would have a fiar bit of maths though I could be wrong, just my experience of chemistry in first year was a lot of tricky enough maths.

From talking to others DIT would be a lot more practical and not such an emphsis on maths so might suit you better.

kevohmsford

I studied Mechanical engineering in DIT. The course was full of maths based subjects. Having physics or applied maths from the leaving cert would be ideal. It is not as theoretical as Trinity engineering but there is no point in telling people that the maths component is easy .
It is however manageable for the weaker maths students and the lecturers were excellent for the most part in helping people when they were stuck with problems.

mikhail

donmoister wrote: »

Would anyone who has done an engineering course in UCD or Trinity or UL etc. advise me not to do engineering, for being weaker at maths than other subjects. I was always a good all-round student, getting all B's everything higher junior cert- Although I did get a few maths grinds. However, I only barely passed my 5th year summer and 6th year Christmas tests for the leaving at higher level.

A B student is probably good enough to handle the maths in an engineering course, but a D student will struggle at the universities. As others have mentioned, a course at an IT would be targeted at a level you can handle.

Also I didn't pick physics or chemistry, as I picked biology instead purely to have one science subject to keep options open, and out of the three science subjects, biology would be the easiest for points maximisation in the lc.

LC chemistry is not required anywhere I can think of. It could have been an advantage to you, but there's no need to worry over the decision now.

I want to become an engineer (preferred discipline would be chem), but maybe I need to be more reasonable as I've heard engineering maths and physics gets very hard in 3rd and 4th year.

Consider your options. There are lots of courses around the country, and maybe some would suit you better than others. If you are set on this direction, talk it over with your parents: tell them you think this is what you want to do, but aren't sure you are up to it. Ask them if they would support you if you decided after first year to change course. (This is fairly expensive - free fees only counts for your first time through each year.)

Captain Chaos wrote: »

I'd go to DIT if I was after an Engineering course. They are far more catering maths wise and their engineering courses are far better than Trinity or UCD. Far more hands on understanding.

Better is subjective. More appropriate for a student who is weak at mathematical subjects, sure (though still not easy). Better depends on what job you're trying to do.

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Means next to nothing anymore tbh. All our third levels are dropping in ranking like the Titanic. They are all as good as each other now.

Rubbish. None of them is especially visible internationally at the moment (Trinity and UCD to some extent, the former more so), but Irish employers have a pretty good idea of how they relate to one another.

bradyle

Just to say Trinity doesn't do Chemical Eng so if that's the area your aiming for prob best to avoid there.

I found the maths in Trinity quite hard, I always found it easier to learn maths when they showed you the way it useful in engineering, but as many have mentioned you do aloti in Trinity that isn't directly related to engineering, maybe because we also get a BA at the the end of the 3 years...Obv I dont personally know really bout other college's but from what friends have said UCD or DIT just didnt seem to have the emphasis on random maths that Trinity had...so I just think that if in Leaving Cert I found Maths quite hard I wouldn't go to Trinity...think that's the 1st time I haven't advised Trinity :P

Turbulent Bill

bradyle wrote: »

I found the maths in Trinity quite hard, I always found it easier to learn maths when they showed you the way it useful in engineering, but as many have mentioned you do aloti in Trinity that isn't directly related to engineering, maybe because we also get a BA at the the end of the 3 years...Obv I dont personally know really bout other college's but from what friends have said UCD or DIT just didnt seem to have the emphasis on random maths that Trinity had...so I just think that if in Leaving Cert I found Maths quite hard I wouldn't go to Trinity...think that's the 1st time I haven't advised Trinity :P

I've actually used huge amounts of the TCD maths, though admittedly this was in pretty specialised applications. The maths BA thing is just an anachronism IMHO; any of my friends in UCD, DCU etc. did plenty of maths too.

My own take is that maths is the language of engineering - it's how you transform your ideas into reality. A writer doesn't have to be brilliant at English to write excellent books, but it's a big help, and the same is true for maths and engineering.

sebastianlieken

I would just recommend against engineering altogether to be honest! Engineers (myself included) tend to have a genius complex. The sad reality is though, if we were truly more intelligent than the average sod, we would have become bankers or stock brokers. That way; our math skills could have been used to make real money.

But anywho, I did Aero Eng. in UL, and I can say first hand, Engineering is tough enough, but in a good way. It's a good engaging logical challenge where the answer is either; right or wrong / good or bad, (not like crappy English or something). I personally love it, but I also love math. Engineering in Uni will push you're math proficiency to the limits, so if that doesn’t sound like your cuppa-tae then… ya know.

Also, UL & DIT are known as the “pressure cookers” in terms of having very intense Engineering courses. They’re very highly regarded, even more so in many places than qualifications from UCD and TCD. BUT, then again it all comes down to the interviewee that determines who gets the job.

badgerbaiter

go for it. i started engineering having nt seen a math book in 5 years and a ordinary d3 in the l.c.
but you will have to put in a lot of work

Capt'n Midnight

Beg, borrow , steal or otherwise acquire a copy of

K. A. Stroud Engineering Mathematics

badgerbaiter

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Beg, borrow , steal or otherwise acquire a copy of

K. A. Stroud Engineering Mathematics

john bird : basic engineering maths is a good one too