Learn to build bike frames...

Gavb

http://www.spoke.ie/2011/11/learn-to-make-a-bike-frame-and-help-a-charity/#more-6181

We need a few people to do this, there' s not enough (any?) frame buliders in this country :-)

Icyseanfitz

problem is that there really isnt a massive market for it, hows a frame builder here going to compete with the heavy hitters in Taiwan? its the reason no one really makes frames anywhere else these days.

it would be nice to make custom frames but the amount of people that would buy them would be very small so i dont think one would be able to make a living out of it, it would be a great hobby to have though

feck sake lads

wow if i had the money i would pledge it right away great project sure hope it takes off :cool:
i really think if you could perfect this craft you would make a decent living building one off frames using only the best steel .my son in law is a pretty good fitter welder and he had no luck when he went to try find out about building bikes so this might inspire him again to get involved in this project.
thanks Gavb for that link;)

Gavb

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

problem is that there really isnt a massive market for it, hows a frame builder here going to compete with the heavy hitters in Taiwan? its the reason no one really makes frames anywhere else these days.

it would be nice to make custom frames but the amount of people that would buy them would be very small so i dont think one would be able to make a living out of it, it would be a great hobby to have though

There's quite a few of them in the UK and elsewhere. I'd love a custom built frame / bike - one of these days :rolleyes:

Check out 'It's all about the bike" (book) and "Ride of my life" (BBC Documentary) by Robert Penn.
He gets a custom frame built by Bob Jackson and then goes around the world -well, Europe and the US - getting the perfect parts and gets into a bit of bicycle history on the way, well worth a watch. It's on YouTube.

Not a huge market, you're right, but there definitely is a market.

@fecksakelads: Cool, maybe he can do me a deal

feck sake lads

seen that film robert penn great stuff and he would have paid a couple grand for that frame he got made by mr o rourke.;)

Gavb

feck sake lads wrote: »

seen that film robert penn great stuff and he would have paid a couple grand for that frame he got made by mr o rourke.;)

Haha I had I feeling I had the wrong name

Icyseanfitz

yeah ive seen bits and pieces of the film too, favourite part is the wheel lacing guy from the us art form me arse, thing is england has a much bigger population and cycling scene than us and those guys building frames are probably only doing it every now and then, i know the guys im doing a course with over here in london are evaluating whether to get a frame building course up and running or not. id personally love to be able to do it but i dont think id be able to make a living out of it, at least in ireland in the current climate

Holyboy

I havent seen the film but I read the book a couple of weeks ago,the bike was the biggest anti climax ever! The full record groupset and wheels where my biggest issues, he couldnt wait for a 32 hole hub so settled on a 28 hole for the rear,he didnt give much thought to rims or spokes, in fact the spoke choice was the worst, if he was having them built in the states why not use wheelsmith spokes? Generally regarded as the best spokes in the world and dont get me started on the cutting down of double and triple butted spokes, fine for a standard wheel but for a dream bike, well, just no! @icy there is an art to building good wheels even though it sounds pretentious, the more you build the clearer that becomes and as for hand built frames, there is a huge market for them, but for good ones, if you can build a fantastic frame people will come to you, last time I checked Richard Sachs' website I think he had a ten year waiting list or something like that! Its all about how well you do something.

Icyseanfitz

holy i respect that you know a whole lot more than me about everything bike related but i have to strongly disagree on wheel building as an art it just makes it sound more complicated than it is, i really cant see the art in it and i love doing it.

when ever i hear someone that builds wheels calling it an art form the only thing that springs to mind is how much more are they charging than a normal mechanic

Holyboy

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

holy i respect that you know a whole lot more than me about everything bike related but i have to strongly disagree on wheel building as an art it just makes it sound more complicated than it is, i really cant see the art in it and i love doing it.

when ever i hear someone that builds wheels calling it an art form the only thing that springs to mind is how much more are they charging than a normal mechanic

Its easy to build a wheel, like its easy to sing or paint a picture but not everyone can do it well! I suppose it depends what you consider art in the first place. I lose money on wheel builds if you take the time into consideration, I used to hate building them as I only saw it a as loss for the shops I worked in but now my time is my own ive grown to love it, its not just a technical thing, its like building a mini structure from scratch.

TheBlaaMan

Check out Andy Hampsten's line of work these days.
http://www.hampsten.com/

Icyseanfitz

Holyboy wrote: »

Its easy to build a wheel, like its easy to sing or paint a picture but not everyone can do it well! I suppose it depends what you consider art in the first place. I lose money on wheel builds if you take the time into consideration, I used to hate building them as I only saw it a as loss for the shops I worked in but now my time is my own ive grown to love it, its not just a technical thing, its like building a mini structure from scratch.

with a wheel stand i find it pretty easy to get a good wheel, as long as your patient and dont turn nipples full turns at a time you should be able to make a decent wheel, i can see how time consuming it is though, and its not something id want to be doing as a full time thing in a workshop as it would get tedious. it just these guys going around saying that the could play Beethoven on their spokes because they are so brilliantly made do my head in, for instance that guy from that documentary said that all spokes on a wheel have equal tension :rolleyes: me arse

Pablo Rubio

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Check out Andy Hampsten's line of work these days.
http://www.hampsten.com/

Love the description for this bike here.......
MAX
"Maybe you’re a big guy who likes to sprint and is not afraid to grab a jersey or bump an elbow, you do ok on the short hills, better on crappy descents, maybe double espresso at the coffee stop. The spring classics are what get your blood pumping, full of rain, cobbled bergs, cow ****, and rabid fans. Ghent-Wevelgem, De Ronde van Vlaanderen, Parigi-Roubaix – now those are proper bike races! Maybe add Amstel Gold and Liege-Bastogne-Liege and certainly the new Strada Bianca race in Tuscany."

feck sake lads

Holyboy wrote: »

I havent seen the film but I read the book a couple of weeks ago,the bike was the biggest anti climax ever! The full record groupset and wheels where my biggest issues, he couldnt wait for a 32 hole hub so settled on a 28 hole for the rear,he didnt give much thought to rims or spokes, in fact the spoke choice was the worst, if he was having them built in the states why not use wheelsmith spokes? Generally regarded as the best spokes in the world and dont get me started on the cutting down of double and triple butted spokes, fine for a standard wheel but for a dream bike, well, just no! @icy there is an art to building good wheels even though it sounds pretentious, the more you build the clearer that becomes and as for hand built frames, there is a huge market for them, but for good ones, if you can build a fantastic frame people will come to you, last time I checked Richard Sachs' website I think he had a ten year waiting list or something like that! Its all about how well you do something.

so are you saying the american wheel builder that has a world wide reputation as one of the best has no clue how to build a good set of wheels a nd whats your issue with top of the range campag am i missing something here and brian o rourke is one of the top frame builders in the uk burn that book and watch the film.

Icyseanfitz

well the fact that the american wheel builder says that all spokes have equal tension would lead me to believe he is full of crap

feck sake lads

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

well the fact that the american wheel builder says that all spokes have equal tension would lead me to believe he is full of crap

did you watch the film he said he tensions all the spokes the same tension not all spokes are the same . the guy is a pro ffs

Icyseanfitz

nope he says perfectly round with all spokes having equal tension

at 37.45

feck sake lads

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

nope he says perfectly round with all spokes having equal tension

at 37.45

now your nit picking why is it when you come across someone who's brilliant at what they do, theres always someone who thinks they know better.

Icyseanfitz

im not nit picking, thats just a purely wrong statement to make, if all spokes had equal tension you could have a machine to make them, it doesnt help that the man sounds incredibly stuck up his own arse

feck sake lads

ok i give in your 100%right :rolleyes:

Icyseanfitz

feck sake lads wrote: »

ok i give in your 100%right :rolleyes:

see that wasnt so hard to admit to right meh ive laced and trued wheels and in my opinion that guy is just full of it, he no doubt can build wheels but i think he is just selling himself a bit too much when he starts comparing himself to Michael Angelo :rolleyes:

Holyboy

feck sake lads wrote: »

so are you saying the american wheel builder that has a world wide reputation as one of the best has no clue how to build a good set of wheels a nd whats your issue with top of the range campag am i missing something here and brian o rourke is one of the top frame builders in the uk burn that book and watch the film.

Not at all, I'm sure he is as good as his reputation suggests, the whole project just seemed very rushed(from the book any way), this was the mans chance to build his dream bike, a once in a lifetime bike and in my opinion he ended up with a Tig welded frame a couple of nice wheels and a Campag' groupset, the end result was of course a lovely bike but was it a once in a lifetime bike?

I was excited when I started reading the book but just confused at the end.

feck sake lads

Holyboy wrote: »

Not at all, I'm sure he is as good as his reputation suggests, the whole project just seemed very rushed(from the book any way), this was the mans chance to build his dream bike, a once in a lifetime bike and in my opinion he ended up with a Tig welded frame a couple of nice wheels and a Campag' groupset, the end result was of course a lovely bike but was it a once in a lifetime bike?

I was excited when I started reading the book but just confused at the end.

yeah but the thing is it was what he considered his dream bike and to be honest i think imho he is now the proud owner of a class bike with all the best gear thats out there.

Holyboy

feck sake lads wrote: »

yeah but the thing is it was what he considered his dream bike and to be honest i think imho he is now the proud owner of a class bike with all the best gear thats out there.

I'm sure it's a lovely bike just not my cup of tea.
I think I was just expecting more because I had heard about it before I read the book, I had been told this guy had traveled around the world in search of the best bike parts but he went to Germany, Italy and the States, that's hardly around the world!
Any way I'm sure he's happy with his bike.
Maybe we should start a dream bike thread, unless there is one already.

at1withmyself

As feck sake as already tried to point out to you he is making reference to the particular wheel he is building and this is where the 'art' form is in building wheels - getting equal tension on all spokes on a wheel. He does not mean that all spokes come from the factory with equal tension, no one with sense with have picked that up from his statement!

A good (proper) wheel builder will get this right when building wheels and not just rely on a 30 odd euro truing stand. There are specific tools available to assist in getting the tension correct. This is also what makes riding a set of quality hand built wheels feel so good. It takes along time and a lot of practice to get this right.

I've been building wheels for a long time now but my most recent custom ones I got done from a German shop as I knew they'd spend the time tensioning them correctly and they did a fantastic job so I'm glad I paid the extra to get it right and they feel brilliant on the trials compared to my old crossmax SLR's so its definitely worth getting it right.

However most modern wheels (particlularly back ones) require a different tension on the LHS Vs. the RHS but should still have the spokes at the same tension on each side if that makes sense.

Can I ask you to you build your own wheels or for other people and do you tension them when you build them with the correct tools? There is a big difference when its done right and as Holyboy has said anyone can do but it doing it right that counts.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7131

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

nope he says perfectly round with all spokes having equal tension

at 37.45

Icyseanfitz

on a rear disk brake (three cross pattern) using that park tools tool(measurements i call parkons ) id have roughly 20 parkons on the non drive side and 25 on the drive side. you cant have equal tension on a rear wheel as you need to have the spokes tighter on the drive side so that your rim is in dish. as for a 30 quid truing stand where did you get that? out of all the stands ive used this is the only one thats any good and its nearly 300 quid

happytramp

feck sake lads wrote: »

yeah but the thing is it was what he considered his dream bike and to be honest i think imho he is now the proud owner of a class bike with all the best gear thats out there.

Nobody's dream bike should ever have handlebars that cost more than it's wheels

feck sake lads

the wheels he got made were top stuff made by an expert don't go judging things by money.