Kinvara

shaysue

Anyone see the short article in yesterdays I Times about restrictions proposed for camper van parking in Kinvara? Decision put off till next year. Time to start flooding Bored Fawly with objections...No explanation as to why except a claim that some locals were objecting to overnighting.

shaysue

Here is article:

LORNA SIGGINS
A decision on a controversial ban on camper vans and overnight boats in Kinvara harbour, south Galway, has been deferred until early next year, writes .
Galway County Council says the proposed ban on “temporary dwellings” at Kinvara pier is in response to a “significant number of complaints received on the issue of camper vans remaining overnight”. However, following a public meeting in Kinvara on Wednesday night, it was agreed that a final decision on a proposed bylaw would be deferred until March. The organisers of the Cruinniú na mBád festival of Galway hookers and traditional craft had said such a ban could jeopardise the future of the festival.

niloc1951

" Galway County Council director of services Jim Cullen said in a letter to elected local authority members.....a prohibition order can be passed under section 31 (1) of the Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act 1948"

---

The Local Government (Sanitary Services) Act, 1948 says 'This Act shall be construed as one with the Public Health Acts, 1878 to 1931'.

IMHO the use of the above Act to control or limit the parking of 'motor caravans' on a 'public road or place' where such parking is permitted for other categories of private passenger vehicles would be discriminatory and a gross misuse of the Act for purposes for which it was not originally drafted and therefore may not be enforceable in law.

The Act speaks of:
'The securing of the habitable condition of temporary dwellings and the cleanliness of temporary dwellings and their surroundings.'
'The prevention of injury to the amenities of any locality by reason of filth, refuse, litter or other débris or noise from temporary dwellings.'
'The securing of orderly and decent behaviour by the inhabitants of temporary dwellings.'

Definitely not conditions which can be attributed to 'motor caravans'

Would it not be more enlightened for the locals to exercise some control over the situation by the provision of Aire type facilities (either paid or free). This would maximise the financial benefits to the local economy from motorhome based tourists instead of attempting to turn away that sector, it would also be in line with the tried and tested formula so commonly found elsewhere in Europe and which are now also provided 'just up the road' in Northern Ireland.

demoreino

Around this time last year , after a trip to see santa in the Ailwee caves with 4 kids we decided to pull in at the peir in Kinvara. My better half ran across the road to a chipper / pizza shop to enquire if it was alright for us to park there overnight. The man in the chipper said it was no problem because campers park there regularly.
We decided to get settled down , go across to the chipper for pizza and chips and drinks and a few beers afterwards for myself in the pub next door. All of a sudden a " crazy " woman came hammering on our door. When I opened it I was met with a barrage of abuse and foul language from this nutcase. The kids, all under 8, were crying in fear of the idiot.
She was roaring that our types were not welcome there and to F""k off to the campsite because we were cheap skates.
I didnt bother trying to argue with her ( mainly because the kids were so upset ) but if I was on my own she would not have got away so easy.
We got directions from a local to a beachside carpark about 3 or 4 miles away.
I was trying to figure out what a tourist to the " land of a million welcomes" would have made of it all.
I have no doubt that this idiotic lunatic is behind this protest because anyone else we spoke to in the area were very nice,friendly and welcoming

niloc1951

demoreino wrote: »

Around this time last year................a " crazy " woman came hammering on our door............she was roaring that our types were not welcome there and to F""k off to the campsite because we were cheap skates.

Interesting!
Being 'crazy' she probable did not know that from October to April there is not one campsite listed in the Camping Ireland book which is open for business in all of Counties Clare and Galway.

achieve

There is also a discussion of sorts about this issue on the village FaceBook page at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kinvara-Online/121999654478826

I think here you will find a more balanced opinion from the people of the village.

Irishgoatman

As a Campervan owner Kinvara becomes another place not to visit.

Never mind, there are plenty of other places that are quite happy to take the money that I spend if Kinvara don't want it.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

As a Campervan owner Kinvara becomes another place not to visit.

Never mind, there are plenty of other places that are quite happy to take the money that I spend if Kinvara don't want it.

Why not take you money HERE. The Crossmolina Community Development Committee deserve our support in return for their enlightened attitude to motorcaravanners.

niloc1951

It looks like this has gone 'international' see MOTORHOMEFACTS.COM for a discussion about the issue

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

Why not take you money HERE. The Crossmolina Community Development Committee deserve our support in return for their enlightened attitude to motorcaravanners.

Sorry but just a little too near home for me. Unless I heard of some event or music session taking place, then certainly I would.
Thanks for posting it. I'm getting quite a list of possibles and probables.

killalanerr

i have wild camped in this area but never in Kinvara,a poster on motorhome facts makes a fair point it doesnt look like the ideal spot http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=kinvara&hl=en&ll=53.139716,-8.936824&spn=0.00186,0.00478&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=14.93306,39.155273&vpsrc=6&hnear=Kinvarra,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.139716,-8.936824&panoid=5r5UCAsZp43f3MrPfpuUYg&cbp=12,313.85,,0,11.01
surely the council could find a suitable parking area to encourage motorhomesers in, if they continue with the present tack the business will be lost to the village,in theses tough times and with the upsurge in ownership of camping cars we should be engorging people into the area not turning them away

demoreino

Niloc, its great to hear that a small community like Crossmolina realise and appreciate the value that motorhome tourists add to an area.
Narrow minded people that only care for themselves will always try and spoil things. They spoil it for the local business people who will make a few bob out of it. And they will spoil it for the people who want to enjoy the beauty of the south Galway area.
Yes, Kinvara is a lovely picturesque village, but do I want to recommend this village to any of our customers as a place that would like to welcome you and want / needs your money, I dont think so.
As was suggested earlier, why not set up a motorhome park up area ( max 48 hours ) in or outside your village, have a little charge for the services provided if necessary.
Would I like to go back to a campervan FRIENDLY Kinvara and spend some of my hard earned money??? Yes I would .
Will I go back to Kinvara if things dont change ? No
Kevin

OuterBombie

Hi Lads,

I'm a motorhome owner and I also live in Kinvara for the last 5 years (2 years in the village and now 3 years down by Tracht beach).

I've been so snowed under with work and two young kids at home that I completely missed this. Had I heard about the public meeting, would definitely have been there. :mad:

Having travelled across Europe and New Zealand in a van, this is pretty embarrassing to be encountering at home.

I agree entirely that its narrow minded, in fact the way its going I'm questioning the advantages of owning a van in this country at all.

Will ask around to see what went down at the public meeting.

OB

BTW, Kinvara is a great spot to live and to visit, hopefully sense will prevail.

shaysue

OB
I agree. This Kinvara topic is also being discussed on other sites; motorhomecraic; motorhomefacts and I think motorhomefun. Its a poor reflection when a minority can dictate. In Ireland we are a long way from ever seeing the type of facilities available in other European countries, such as France, for motorhomers. We are all being encouraged to stay at home for holidays but this type of narrow minded action does nothing to support this encouragement. It would appear that Bored Fawlty, Irish Waterways and local councils have not noticed the amount of motorhomes now on the roads all lookiing for pretty basic facilities.

niloc1951

This, from a Kinvara resident.
" My understanding is that Galway Co. Council were almost using Kinvara as a test case, and depending how things went here they were going to implement similar "bans" throughout Galway. This has now been put on hold until the "community" come up with a resolution."

It's interesting and worrying that a statuary body like a county council considers it can 'come down on' and discriminate against a particular category of tourist.
Not very patriotic is it in these straightened times when every area needs every 'tourist Euro' it can earn.

The community of Kinvara should receive our support by way of overnight visits conducted in accordance with the rules of good motorhoming and be rewarded by us doing a bit of shopping in their shops, a little drinking in their pubs and a little dining in their restaurants.

tphase

according to a friend of mine, who lives in Kinvara, the push for this ban was initiated by a small group of residents who live close to the quay. They tried to do so as quietly as possible because they knew there would be local objections to such a ban, particularly from the boating community as overnighting in boats would also have been outlawed. They almost got away with it but thankfully someone leaked it and the community at least now have the opportunity to debate the issues.

To be fair, it can't be too pleasant for residents during the summer if they have drunken muppets camped outside their front doors (whether in tents, vans or boats) with all that that entails.

The solution, of course, is for the garda sicini to enforce public order laws. However there are no gardai in Kinvara and GCC recognise that it's easier to have a simple blanket ban which the gardai can enforce whenever they happen pass through (most likely traffic corp as they are the only ones who can afford to keep squad cars on the road...)

niloc1951

tphase wrote: »

............To be fair, it can't be too pleasant for residents during the summer if they have drunken muppets camped outside their front doors (whether in tents, vans or boats) with all that that entails................

I couldn't agree more. 'Camping' should be confined to camp-sites. But we are, or should be, talking about 'parking' here and there is a world of difference. For those who do not yet know what the difference is, within our own community and our local authorities and public representatives in particular, have a look below for a definition published in a Spanish official publication.

Two different concepts: parking and camping
In addition to parking, motor caravans, like any other vehicle, can also be used for camping.
Motor caravans are normally considered to be parked and not camping when:
1 Only the wheels are making contact with the road (stabilising legs or other equipment have not been lowered). In certain cases, such as when the parking space is situated on a hill, the use of wheel chocks may be justified for safety reasons.
2 They do not occupy more space than when they are in motion, meaning that there are no windows open (windows that open outwards and which occupy space beyond the perimeter of the vehicle), chairs, tables, awnings, etc. are not put out for use.
3 There are no fluid emissions of any type, whether polluting or not, except for exhaust emissions caused by combustion in the engine, and there is no uncivil and/or unhygienic behaviour, such as the emptying of wastewater onto the street. No objectionable noise is produced, such as, for example, running an electricity generator at unsociable hours, or for long periods during the day.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. 'Camping' should be confined to camp-sites. But we are, or should be, talking about 'parking' here and there is a world of difference. For those who do not yet know what the difference is, within our own community and our local authorities and public representatives in particular, have a look below for a definition published in a Spanish official publication.

Two different concepts: parking and camping
In addition to parking, motor caravans, like any other vehicle, can also be used for camping.
Motor caravans are normally considered to be parked and not camping when:
1 Only the wheels are making contact with the road (stabilising legs or other equipment have not been lowered). In certain cases, such as when the parking space is situated on a hill, the use of wheel chocks may be justified for safety reasons.
2 They do not occupy more space than when they are in motion, meaning that there are no windows open (windows that open outwards and which occupy space beyond the perimeter of the vehicle), chairs, tables, awnings, etc. are not put out for use.
3 There are no fluid emissions of any type, whether polluting or not, except for exhaust emissions caused by combustion in the engine, and there is no uncivil and/or unhygienic behaviour, such as the emptying of wastewater onto the street. No objectionable noise is produced, such as, for example, running an electricity generator at unsociable hours, or for long periods during the day.

Well spotted!.

But I have to ask the question , how many hours a day do you spend on the 'net looking for stuff like this?.:)

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Well spotted!.
But I have to ask the question , how many hours a day do you spend on the 'net looking for stuff like this?.:)

Not a lot, I just know how to research stuff, where to find reliable information, sift the wheat from the chaff.

niloc1951

Deputy Mayor of County Galway, Councillor Bridie Willers is reported in The Clare Champion as stating “The group < campaigning against motorhome overnight parking being permitted> wasn’t exaggerated but gave an honest presentation with information and photos and, overall, made a convincing case."

Part of 'the case' which convinced Councillor Willers was “The group also argued that the quay area was unsuitable for camping or temporary accommodation because there are no public toilet facilities on the quay, no waste facilities and that “Kinvara does not have the bin facilities to cope with campervans and their domestic waste”.

Goes to show the pure ignorance around about the modern motorhome and how self sufficient it is. We should not underestimate the damage such ignorance could cause to owners freedom to making full use of their motorhomes here in Ireland. Similar sentiments from Councillor Noel Harrington (then County Mayor of Co. Cork) back in September 2008, in fact the article in The Clare Champion and the report of the Councillors deliberations in the Irish Examiner three years ago are frighteningly similar http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055389944.

See HERE for the full article in The Clare Champion

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

Not a lot, I just know how to research stuff, where to find reliable information, sift the wheat from the chaff.

Can you supply a link for the Spanish Official publication? It could be useful for anyone arguing the case for overnight parking.

I would think most of us have translaters on our computers so I would think the original would be best.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Can you supply a link for the Spanish Official publication? It could be useful for anyone arguing the case for overnight parking.

I would think most of us have translaters on our computers so I would think the original would be best.

Linky go to page 20 and it's the English language publication of the document as a bonus.
As can be seen, it is a very comprehensive and well informed inter-departmental government document which includes inputs from representatives of the motorhome lobby, what chance here !!

And here's a similar French one Linky for good measure

WildWater

demoreino wrote: »

Around this time last year , after a trip to see santa in the Ailwee caves with 4 kids we decided to pull in at the peir in Kinvara. My better half ran across the road to a chipper / pizza shop to enquire if it was alright for us to park there overnight. The man in the chipper said it was no problem because campers park there regularly.
We decided to get settled down , go across to the chipper for pizza and chips and drinks and a few beers afterwards for myself in the pub next door. All of a sudden a " crazy " woman came hammering on our door. When I opened it I was met with a barrage of abuse and foul language from this nutcase. The kids, all under 8, were crying in fear of the idiot.
She was roaring that our types were not welcome there and to F""k off to the campsite because we were cheap skates.
I didnt bother trying to argue with her ( mainly because the kids were so upset ) but if I was on my own she would not have got away so easy.
We got directions from a local to a beachside carpark about 3 or 4 miles away.
I was trying to figure out what a tourist to the " land of a million welcomes" would have made of it all.
I have no doubt that this idiotic lunatic is behind this protest because anyone else we spoke to in the area were very nice,friendly and welcoming

Thanks for that Kevin. We are going to the caves this year to visit the big man and had planned a to stop in Kinvara on the way back for something to eat. On the basis of this I would have to consider taking our business elsewhere! (And we weren't even planning on spending the night.) Mind you in fairness to the 99% of hardworking and welcoming people of Kinvara I'm sure that they would not condone this type of behaviour.

Based on your account of things I think it would be a reasonable conclusion to say that she was 'disturbing the peace'. If it ever happens to us the first thing I will do is grab the video camera (or phone) and I would have no hesitation in handing over the recording to the Guards!.

It is also appalling that your business and livelihood and that of other rental companies that encourage a high value spend in the country (not to mind the vendors and garage owners etc) is put in jeopardy by behavior such as this. This story has been picked up internationally and it will do nothing to attract people to Ireland generally and Kinvara in particular be they in campervans or not.

I wonder does she also shout abuse at the 100's of tourist that get out of their bus, snap loads of photos and then hop back on the coach without ever spending a penny in the village? Perhaps they should be banned also.

While I understand the feeling by some that the area may not be entirely suited to regular overnight camping and I have no doubt that some campervans have probably overstayed their welcome and/or behaved in a less than appropriate fashion. What I don't understand is the narrow-minded, knee jerk reaction to a 'solution' that is BAN!

Councillor Bridie Willers, and others, the convincing case should be that there is a need to find a solution that balances the wishes of the community and those that wish to visit that lovely village and one that also recognizes and leverages the economic opportunity of all types of tourism.

Our Government is calling on us to holiday at home and it makes sense. Us and 100's like us took our vans to France last year. Our spend was well in-excess of 4K. And believe it or not we are (might soon be - were) seriously thinking of staying at home next year. I am sure the proprietors of the horse riding schools, surf schools, art schools, entertainment facilities, restaurants etc that we are planning to visit will welcome our business. And supporting them we help them to survive and to be in a position of being able to offer their service to those who choose to visit by a means other than campervans.

There is so much that Clare, Galway and Mayo has to offer. I for one would be more than happy to pay €10 a night for an Aire type facility in a village like Kinava. In fact, in a popular spot like Kinvara this could be a nice little earner for the community council. I hope that common sense prevails and if it does we will definitely go and support the community. A nice meal, maybe even a pint or two in a welcoming community atmosphere and back to the comfort of our own van, could it be any better?

So please, can we have some joined up thinking that doesn't include bans and height barrier!

WildWater

niloc1951 wrote: »

Why not take you money HERE. The Crossmolina Community Development Committee deserve our support in return for their enlightened attitude to motorcaravanners.

+1 on that. Fair play to them and Mayo Co Co. Very tastefully done and even has cctv and lighting. So folks if at all possible to go and spend a night or two there and while your at it a couple of bob in the local community. And if you can't do that why not send a email to Mayo CC to encourage them to add more of these around the county.



FYI There is also a very good children's playground just outside the village on the way to this 'Aires De Service'.

unfit2006

I recall stopping off in Kinvara with the camper about a few years ago and coming across signs erected on lamp posts etc in the village advising that overnighting motorcampers were not welcome in the village. I do not remember the exact wording of the notices but I recall that they also mentioned the fact that the notices had been funded by concerned residents in the village !!!!

Needless to say,I just moved along without any delay and have not revisited the village since. I feel that more motorcampers should do the same and mark this village and others like it off their list of places to stop for coffee breaks/dining/shopping/refueling and so on.

If the elected representatives of Kinvara and/or Galway County Council wish to proceed with the "campervan ban" as a test case, then they should be made fully aware of the consequences of such an action.

Glastonut

unfit2006 wrote: »

I feel that more motorcampers should do the same and mark this village and others like it off their list of places to stop for coffee breaks/dining/shopping/refueling and so on.

Agree with that.

650Ginge

I stayed over in ballyvaughan a couple of weeks ago. Quiet area at the harbour only the clinking of boat ropes in the wind. A km to the village with a few nice pubs and a couple of restaurants. Would recommend it?

niloc1951

WildWater wrote: »

..................................While I understand the feeling by some that the area may not be entirely suited to regular overnight camping..........................

An excellent post WildWater

But please please please let's all understand that CAMPING is not what happens on Aire type facilities which we so badly crave for in this country, it's overnight PARKING

Apologies for shouting so loud.

Glastonut

niloc1951 wrote: »

CAMPING is not what happens on Aire type facilities which we so badly crave for in this country

Have a look at the report on Motorhomecraic.com regarding Aires, although a report done by a Northern Council, it has details of Aires that are being looked at all over Ireland.

niloc1951

Glastonut wrote: »

Have a look at the report on Motorhomecraic.com regarding Aires, although a report done by a Northern Council, it has details of Aires that are being looked at all over Ireland.

I know, I have had a copy of the reports since it was published in October and it is good to see that there is some movement on the 'Aires' issue. The report does also state that the negative impact which their development might have on camp-sites need further consideration, a comment like that, even though it's a valid one, could lead to difficulties in the expansion of our current system of Aires in the South, which currently stands at two, Crossmolina and Askeaton
It should also not be forgotten that influential councillors, including the County Mayors of counties Cork, Kerry and Galway are on record as being vehemently opposed to motorhomes being facilitated with overnight parking facilities, other than in camp-sites.