Oil Fire Burning won't fire

Howjoe1

I have an outdoor Firebird Heatpack Oil burner. Ten yrs old at this stage.

My oil ran out and usually when I get a refill I have to bleed it to get it started.

Suprisingly it started up first time with just one press of the restart button and no bleeding needed. I did notice a small bit of white smoke when it sarted (but nothing major).

It work fine for two days on timer but did not start up this morning:mad:

I have now bled and tried restart button. It came on started heating rads etc but cut out after 15 mins. Now it wont fire on restart.

I know its due a service but is there anything I could try myself in the meantime that might get it going?

chuckles30

Is it running and just won't fire? Or is it completely dead? I have a 'trip switch' like switch in mine & if it's completely dead, that needs to be reset. In mine it's on a white/grey box up near the top of the container & I need to unscrew a little black cover and just push in the small white button there. If it's not this, then I'm afraid I can't help.....sorry:(

Howjoe1

chuckles30 wrote: »

Is it running and just won't fire? Or is it completely dead? I have a 'trip switch' like switch in mine & if it's completely dead, that needs to be reset. In mine it's on a white/grey box up near the top of the container & I need to unscrew a little black cover and just push in the small white button there. If it's not this, then I'm afraid I can't help.....sorry:(

i have a red button for reset. it tries to fire up each time but doesn't spark:mad:

spent all weekly spare cash on the kerosene and can't afford to call out a service guy until paid again next week. frustrating having the oil but no heat:mad:

Billy Bunting

It could be the fuel filter is full of ****e that got stired up with the fill, turn off at the tankand unscrew the bowl to reveal the filter, clean it with clean fuel and replace.

There is then a secondary filter on the burner, we'll get to that if need be.

Howjoe1

Billy Bunting wrote: »

It could be the fuel filter is full of ****e that got stired up with the fill, turn off at the tankand unscrew the bowl to reveal the filter, clean it with clean fuel and replace.

There is then a secondary filter on the burner, we'll get to that if need be.

Billy,

Thanks. I have the service booked for next with regardless but if I can get it started in the meantime it would be great.

The burner is an outdoor Riello Burner Model G5X Type 441T1,

So I need to close off the valve at the Tank first?

Next bit am ignorant about.
Unscrew what bowl? am I taking the burner out? Will the filter be obvious to the eye when I do that?

Are there any dangers from electrics?


Will oil leak?


I really need the dummies guide to cleaning the filter?

Ps what is the cyclinder tube with funnel on the top of the heat pac called?

Billy Bunting

The oil filter should be at the tank, there should be a valve located next to it, the bowl, is the lower half of the filter.

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Aluminium_In-Line_Oil_Filter_3-8_Inch_BSP.html

Howjoe1

Billy Bunting wrote: »

The oil filter should be at the tank, there should be a valve located next to it, the bowl, is the lower half of the filter.

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Aluminium_In-Line_Oil_Filter_3-8_Inch_BSP.html

Cheers Billy. Going to tackle this in the morning with daylight. Any other additional tips or advice in the meantime appreciated.

Howjoe1

Billy Bunting wrote: »

The oil filter should be at the tank, there should be a valve located next to it, the bowl, is the lower half of the filter.

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Aluminium_In-Line_Oil_Filter_3-8_Inch_BSP.html

Billy,

I removed the oil burner and cleaned cylinder bit. Brass part with pin hole was a bit black and i cleaned with kerosene. gave the whole thing a hover out but when i put back together still the same...on start up makes a noise like it is gonna start bit doesnt spark and cuts back out.

do i need to look at secondary filter?

sullzz

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Billy Bunting wrote: »

The oil filter should be at the tank, there should be a valve located next to it, the bowl, is the lower half of the filter.

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalog/Aluminium_In-Line_Oil_Filter_3-8_Inch_BSP.html

Billy,

I removed the oil burner and cleaned cylinder bit. Brass part with pin hole was a bit black and i cleaned with kerosene. gave the whole thing a hover out but when i put back together still the same...on start up makes a noise like it is gonna start bit doesnt spark and cuts back out.

do i need to look at secondary filter?

The filter is at the oil tank , on the pipe that comes out of the tank , close the valve on the pipe and unscrew the bottom part of the filter , its probably sludged up.

Micky Dolenz

Unlikely to be a blocked oil filter.

Sadly OP, it could be a load of things, from knackered oil pump, to dirty injector, faulty solenoid, faulty photocell. Loads of things will make the burner lock out.

When you reset it, you can air the fan start? Can you hear the electrodes clicking?

sullzz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Unlikely to be a blocked oil filter.

Sadly OP, it could be a load of things, from knackered oil pump, to dirty injector, faulty solenoid, faulty photocell. Loads of things will make the burner lock out.

When you reset it, you can air the fan start? Can you hear the electrodes clicking?

True but its the only thing that i would get the op to check , also he had the burner out of the boiler looking for it so i wanted to point him in the right direction

Billy Bunting

sullzz wrote: »

True but its the only thing that i would get the op to check , also he had the burner out of the boiler looking for it so i wanted to point him in the right direction

I removed the oil burner and cleaned cylinder bit

I think the OP meant to say he had removed the "oil filter" not the boiler.

He also states it doesn't spark, i'm with Micky on this, could be a lot of things and dificult to get anywhere with a novice such as the OP.

sullzz

Howjoe1 wrote: »

Billy,

I removed the oil burner and cleaned cylinder bit. Brass part with pin hole was a bit black and i cleaned with kerosene. gave the whole thing a hover out but when i put back together still the same...on start up makes a noise like it is gonna start bit doesnt spark and cuts back out.

do i need to look at secondary filter?

Sounds like he took the boiler out to me, "cylinder bit" being blast tube , " brass part with pin hole" being nozzell , and why would he hoover the filter out.
Also as i said i was only pointing out to him where the filtrr is as its the only thing that i would help him to do as he obviously doesnt know his way around an oil boiler/ burner .
i agree that chances are its more than just a blocked filter .

Billy Bunting

Could be the burner sullzz, i took the "cylinder bit" as the filter cartrage, as i had told him where to find the filter and assumed he had found it :rolleyes: and then the nozzle and stuff was after, but hey! it ain't easy over the intenet :pac:

Micky Dolenz

The OP states he removed the burner and had a hover around, he also cleaned the tip of the injector.

Time to get a pro in OP, me thinks

Howjoe1

Thanks Lads. Problem might be my amateur approach. To clarify

after cleaning and adjusting the two electroids closer...it did spark and start. I had also tightened closed (perhaps wrongly) a part listed as the regulator on the diagram of parts of burner:o

I was delighted to hear it running...but soon noted the rads weren;t heating :eek:

then i turned it off. tried turning on a few minutes later but nothing not even a peep out of the restart buttton

Thought it all seemed a bit warm...loosened a valve at the top and boiling hot water flowed out..


Did tightening the regulator shut cause the problem ? esp since i seemed to have got it sparking again?

Billy Bunting

The regulator is for pump presure adjustment and if you move it you will need an engineer to reset to the correct presure.

Thats if you aint knackered the pump.

Howjoe1

billy,

i tightened it with flat end screw driver.. engineer coming next friday.

could that have messed up flow to rads?

should i just sit tight until friday?

Billy Bunting

By screwing the regulator fully in you would have completly messed up the pressure possibly to a degree where the pump seals could have blown, you can now do nothing because it requires the use of a pump pressure gauge to adjust it back to the requirments for the boiler, sit back!

sullzz

As billy just said you probably messed with the oil pressure , youd be best just leaving it till the lad comes to fix it even if you manage to get it going you will need it set back to correct settings or it will not be burning correctly and may cause sooting , the electrodes and oil pressure will need resetting , make surr you tell the guy what exactly you did , althoigh he should check everything anyway

Howjoe1

thanks guy. the bloke coming out on friday (cant afford to get him out sooner) is fully qualified.

i was just trying to get a start on it before service since wife minds kids and didn't want a cold house:o

so i should avoid any temptation to fiddle with it tomorrow:o

Billy Bunting

There is a bit of The Italian Job to this story, gets me thinking of the guy blowing the security truck to bit when he was just suppose to blow the doors off.

Howjoe1, YOU JUST MEANT TO CHECK THE FUEL FILTER. :D:D

Howjoe1

Billy Bunting wrote: »

There is a bit of The Italian Job to this story, gets me thinking of the guy blowing the security truck to bit when he was just suppose to blow the doors off.

Howjoe1, YOU JUST MEANT TO CHECK THE FUEL FILTER. :D:D

:mad: can't resist adjusting other parts. feel like father dougal now:mad:

as my wife says..i dont know how to admit defeat.

sullzz

Billy Bunting wrote: »

There is a bit of The Italian Job to this story, gets me thinking of the guy blowing the security truck to bit when he was just suppose to blow the doors off.

Howjoe1, YOU JUST MEANT TO CHECK THE FUEL FILTER. :D:D

:D:D:D:D:D

Billy Bunting

People playing with the regulator is a common thread on here, no shame in trying to get heat for the kids, been there and ended up having to get decorators in, but thats completely off topic.

Howjoe1

i have a feeling i'm going to have the cover off tomorrow for a final go.



ps i also loosened the four screws in each corner on the side of the burner (opposite side to air damper) to bleed ...rightly or wrongly and tightened back up when i saw kerosene.

Billy Bunting

The 4 screws are where you would have found the second filter, but as you dont seem to have check the 1st then no point in touching the second one.

You "could" attempt to unscrew the regulator half a dozen turns, but as already stated by sullzz you could end up with a sooty boiler that your man will charge good for.

sullzz

Billy Bunting wrote: »

People playing with the regulator is a common thread on here, no shame in trying to get heat for the kids, been there and ended up having to get decorators in, but thats completely off topic.

I agree , lots of people adjust the oil pressure. thinking they are bleeding the pump , i remember one job i went to , it was to a very well known company i the city cntr. ( id better not name) , they ran out of oil and rang a plumber after getting a refill to get their burner going , the plumber was at the boiler for a few mins then feft , a while later a woman passing by the building noticed black smoke and soot from what looked like the roof of the building , so she rang the firebrigade ( without even going into the building to cjeck with staff inside ). the fire brigage arrived and told the manager of the building to contact their plumber as its a problem with their boiler and not a fire , i got the call to go in and was informed about another plumber being here and what he was hete for , needless to say he wouldnd answer his phone , when i arrived the street was coverd in smoke and there was little particals of smoke floating around the shops beside this building .
i went out to the boiler housr , it was a large commercial oil boiler , it took me about 5 mins to readjust the oil pressure and to get it burning correctly but a day and a half to clean the boiler and the flue .:mad:
i was like a miner going home both days , after literraly shovelling soot out of the boiler

sullzz

Billy Bunting wrote: »

People playing with the regulator is a common thread on here, no shame in trying to get heat for the kids, been there and ended up having to get decorators in, but thats completely off topic.

I agree , lots of people adjust the oil pressure. thinking they are bleeding the pump , i remember one job i went to , it was to a very well known company i the city cntr. ( id better not name) , they ran out of oil and rang a plumber after getting a refill to get their burner going , the plumber was at the boiler for a few mins then feft , a while later a woman passing by the building noticed black smoke and soot from what looked like the roof of the building , so she rang the firebrigade ( without even going into the building to cjeck with staff inside ). the fire brigage arrived and told the manager of the building to contact their plumber as its a problem with their boiler and not a fire , i got the call to go in and was informed about another plumber being here and what he was hete for , needless to say he wouldnd answer his phone , when i arrived the street was coverd in smoke and there was little particals of smoke floating around the shops beside this building .
i went out to the boiler housr , it was a large commercial oil boiler , it took me about 5 mins to readjust the oil pressure and to get it burning correctly but a day and a half to clean the boiler and the flue .:mad:
i was like a miner going home both days , after literraly shovelling soot out of the boiler

Howjoe1

This morning, once fully cooled down, it is firing perfectly. But only left running for a few minutes because no sign of heat in rads.

Is it worth trying to do something with the circulating pump. could it be just jammed or need a cleaning out?

Micky Dolenz

Flat head screw on centre of pump. Remove it. You'll see if the propeller is spinning. If it isn't, use flat head screwdriver to spin it. If its jammed this will free it.

Howjoe1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Flat head screw on centre of pump. Remove it. You'll see if the propeller is spinning. If it isn't, use flat head screwdriver to spin it. If its jammed this will free it.

Cheers. Tried that this evening and it seems to have worked, touch wood.

I wasn't sure I was looking at the right part in the first instant. I removed the flat head screw. There was a very small drip of water. Cleared rge inside of screw that was a bit black.

the bit that confused me was that i couldn't see the propeller. I gently put the flat screw driver in where the screw had been and wiggled it very gently.

Put back together and rads are heating. hopefully it was just the propellor that was stuck.