The haves and have nots

Big Mouth

Which one is which in this country?

Person A is on the dole and person B is a small employer who has just lost his business:

Person A has guaranteed income for them and their kids

Person A has rent allowance which pratically pays their accomadation

Person A has guaranteed free healthcare for them and their family

Person B won't get two bob from the state if his business goes under, no entitlements whatsoever

Person B has no help paying their mortgage and won't get any help if / when he cant afford the repayments

Person B has no health protection if they can't afford their VHI etc and will not get a medical card for them and their family

The irony is Person B has paid for A's entitlements for years.

I would love to see people on the dole over 5 years (Any excuses for these?) get a 70% reduction to their dole

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

SNIP

Solnskaya

Good grief, don't come on here stating reality for God sake. The first hint should be how you have to click on a thread twice to view it, the first click bringing you around in a pointless loop-only in this forum, doesn't happen on any other part of boards. The other is the absolute deluded toeing of the Government line- it's all good, things are getting better, lets wait and see, Nama is good, etc etc. Ireland is run for the benefit of those "cute" enough to get a job with a state agency where they are protected and insulated, or the other end of the scale, those entirely dependent on the state and its welfare payments. Those fools in the middle(I'm one) are purely the fodder who pay for the two pampered classes- the coddled and the cute. God help those in the middle. Maybe we could have a state enquiry into this situation, the better to employ another load of useless paperpushers.

carm

Big Mouth wrote: »

Person B won't get two bob from the state if his business goes under, no entitlements whatsoever

Person B has no help paying their mortgage and won't get any help if / when he cant afford the repayments

Person B has no health protection if they can't afford their VHI etc and will not get a medical card for them and their family

Incorrect information.

If you are self-employed and your business goes under, you can apply for Jobseekers Allowance. What you are not entitled to is Jobseekers Benefit. JSA is means-tested as it is for everyone after their entitlement to Benefit finishes.

The self-employed, should their business go under, can apply for mortgage interest supplements to assist in the payment of their mortgage. This payment is short-term, as it is for everyone if they fit into the small criteria. This, I would agree, is made more difficult for you to get if you have been self-employed.

With regard to health, self-employed people are entitled to medical cards. Again, it's means-tested, as it is for everyone else.

There is no denying however, it is made more difficult for someone who has been self-employed to receive any of these payments. What they are NOT entitled to are payments like Family Income Supplements.

Correct me if you feel I have posted misinformation.

BrianJD

I have not got an idea what this thread is about.
























See what I did there?

Nothingbetter2d

Big Mouth wrote: »

Which one is which in this country?

Person A is on the dole and person B is a small employer who has just lost his business:

Person A has guaranteed income for them and their kids

Person A has rent allowance which pratically pays their accomadation

Person A has guaranteed free healthcare for them and their family

Person B won't get two bob from the state if his business goes under, no entitlements whatsoever

Person B has no help paying their mortgage and won't get any help if / when he cant afford the repayments

Person B has no health protection if they can't afford their VHI etc and will not get a medical card for them and their family

The irony is Person B has paid for A's entitlements for years.

I would love to see people on the dole over 5 years (Any excuses for these?) get a 70% reduction to their dole

wrong.... i had a small CAD drafting business from 2006 til 2010 that went under.

i get job seeker's allowance now.... i still don't get rent allowance yet but i've applied for it and my claim is being processed. I also have a medical card now.
I not entitled to child benefit cos i have no children as of yet.

On monday i start an IT internship (jobsbridge scheme) for another small employer.

earpiece

So OP, your person B, I'm guessing.... here's another way of thinking:

Person A had a shít existence in the past..... has a shít existence now, and will probably have a shít existence in the future.

Person B Had a great existence in the past, has a shít existence now, and if they are the person they used to be... will probably pull it together and have a great existence in the future.

Don't blame the system, if you don't like the system, set about changing it.

Your the HAVE, you have ability.

Solnskaya

earpiece wrote: »

So OP, your person B, I'm guessing.... here's another way of thinking:

Person A had a shít existence in the past..... has a shít existence now, and will probably have a shít existence in the future.

Person B Had a great existence in the past, has a shít existence now, and if they are the person they used to be... will probably pull it together and have a great existence in the future.

Don't blame the system, if you don't like the system, set about changing it.

Your the HAVE, you have ability.

Glass half cracked?

Liam Byrne

earpiece wrote: »

So OP, your person B, I'm guessing.... here's another way of thinking:

Person A had a shít existence in the past..... has a shít existence now, and will probably have a shít existence in the future.

Person B Had a great existence in the past, has a shít existence now, and if they are the person they used to be... will probably pull it together and have a great existence in the future.

Don't blame the system, if you don't like the system, set about changing it.

Your the HAVE, you have ability.

Why the automatic assumption that business owners cream it in ?

Some of us just want to earn a living and contribute - we're not all pocket-lining gob****es making a mint, y'know!

psychward

Person A might have had a small business and eventually migrated to an entitlement for the dole. Person A might also have worked for 10 or 20 years before unceremoniously been shafted by a troika of banksters,developers and politicians. It's not that simple to claim that person A never paid for anything. Person A might have paid more tax over his lifetime than person B. In any case it's a false choice. The real person A ripping us off are those in the golden circle like Harney and Ahern who nuke the country and then walk away with huge pensions and payoffs etc. I doubt punishing the insignificant number of unemployable will ever save a tiny fraction of whats being wasted because of the most important issues which are ignored in plain sight.

nursextreme

Big Mouth wrote: »

The irony is Person B has paid for A's entitlements for years.

I would love to see people on the dole over 5 years (Any excuses for these?) get a 70% reduction to their dole

The irony is that the way things are at present Person B has a much greater chance of becoming Person A than ever before. After the first 6 months on the dole Person B loses all grandiose notions about how he/she paid for A's entitlements for years, - they now realise they have become Person B!

It's person C that I blame for this whole mess........

nesf

The OP is a good example of why case studies are not as well regarded as randomised trials.

Bullseye1

At what stage are people categorised as "have nots" as person A cannot be categorised as such.

pog it

Big Mouth wrote: »

I would love to see people on the dole over 5 years (Any excuses for these?) get a 70% reduction to their dole

It is ridiculous how poorly the self-employed get treated but you have to wonder why?

Also the person on the dole for over 5 years or more obviously has problems, - no work ethic maybe, maybe lazy, maybe arrogant, who knows. But despite all the money they may have saved from the dole over the years I definitely don't envy them it. They're the real have nots when you turn the definition around.

amacca

Liam Byrne wrote: »

we're not all pocket-lining gob****es making a mint, y'know!

I've very rarely disagreed with you in the past Liam but what makes someone who lines their pockets a Gobsh1te?

I think its quite rational behaviour to look out for yourself as best you can..no one else will.............I intend to line mine if I can.

Liam Byrne

amacca wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

we're not all pocket-lining gob****es making a mint, y'know!

I've very rarely disagreed with you in the past Liam but what makes someone who lines their pockets a Gobsh1te?

I think its quite rational behaviour to look out for yourself as best you can..no one else will.............I intend to line mine if I can.

I was commenting in the context of extremes - making more than you'll ever need - and where that pure greed mentality has gotten us.

In terms of generally making enough to get by with some extra for the finer things in life, I've no problem with it!