A bit theory behine STOP and YIELD signs.

CiniO

I wasn't learning to drive in Ireland. In that place, I learnt that difference between STOP and YIELD sign, is simple. They both mean you have to give way to vehicles on main road, but before STOP sign you have to stop (even for a second) while before YIELD sign you can go without stopping if there is nothing on the main road.
Generally speaking, STOP signs should be in place where view into the main road is limited and it's impossible to see if main road is clear without stopping, while YIELD signs, should be in spots, where you can see the main road when approaching the junction, and you can see if there is anything coming on the main road or not, so there is no need for stopping if road is clear.

That's what I learnt on my driving lessons, and it all seems to be clear and logical.

Anyway now I live in Ireland, and I like to look into traffic law, so I did this time.

Yields and Stop Signs.

8. (1) Traffic sign number RUS 026 shall—


(a) indicate that traffic shall yield right of way to traffic on a major road ahead; and


(b) consist of a red inverted equilateral triangle with rounded corners, the space inside the triangle being coloured white an which shall be shown, in black letters, the words "Yield", "Yield Right of Way', or "Géill SIP'.


(2) Traffic sign number RUS 027 shall—


(a) indicate that traffic shall stop before entering a major road; and


(b) consist of a red octagon with a white border and showing the word "Stop" in white letters.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0181.html

Now we can see here, that yield sign obliges a driver to yield right of way, but stop sign only request driver to stop. Nothing mentioned here about giving right of way.


How is this supposed to work? Did they forget to include giving right of way with stop sign in the regulation? Or maybe there is something I don't know?

Obviously we are talking here only about theory, but after reading this driver could assume, he has to stop at stop sign, and then he can carry on, as his only obligation is to stop. Nothing mentioned about giving way.

Victor

When joining traffic or another road you always yield to other traffic.

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

Obviously we are talking here only about theory, but after reading this driver could assume, he has to stop at stop sign, and then he can carry on, as his only obligation is to stop. Nothing mentioned about giving way.

He'd want to be awfully stupid, though, wouldn't he?

barura

You yeild to the right, hence, "Right of way". It's how you treat unmarked junctions. Same rules apply, except you have to stop at stop signs. I don't see how it's confusing, assuming one knows the rules of the road.

CiniO

Anan1 wrote: »

He'd want to be awfully stupid, though, wouldn't he?

In reality - yes.
But as I said - I wanted to talk about theory.
Regulations should be clear, and here it looks like people ought to know they need to give way on the stop sign as it's obvious, but I'm surpriced it's not written down anywhere.
Unless I'm missing something....

CiniO

barura wrote: »

You yeild to the right, hence, "Right of way".

Wait a minute.
Yielding "to the right" is a different thing than yielding "right of way".
You should yield to the right on junctions of roads of equal importance. (give way to vehicles coming from your right)
You yield the right of way f.e. when you see a yield sign, and it means you give way to vehicles going both from your right as well as your left.

It's how you treat unmarked junctions. Same rules apply, except you have to stop at stop signs. I don't see how it's confusing, assuming one knows the rules of the road.

The trick here is, that you don't need to know rules of the road before driving. There is nothing expecting you to do so.
You have to drive in line with traffic acts and regulations though.

barura

The theory test requires you to know how right of way works at a stop sign.

Even if you don't know the rules of the road, it's a good thing to check over, but I get what you're saying.

CiniO

barura wrote: »

The theory test requires you to know how right of way works at a stop sign.

Even if you don't know the rules of the road, it's a good thing to check over, but I get what you're saying.

I just took a look, and funny thing is that ROTR says the same.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/stop-and-yield.html

As you can see from the diagram, the Stop upright sign is a red octagon with a white border. It is the only regulatory sign of this shape. Stop signs appear at junctions with major roads. If you approach a Stop sign, you must stop completely before entering the major road, no matter how quiet it might appear.

The Yield upright sign shown is just one version of this sign. Other versions are the same shape and colour but might say 'Yield Right of Way', or 'Géill Slí'. If you see a Yield sign on the road, usually near a junction or roundabout, you must give way to any traffic on a major road ahead and you must not proceed out onto the main road until it is safe to do so. It is better to be safe than sorry, make sure you allow enough time to complete your manoeuvre.

Even here, you can see that STOP sign only required you to stop, while YIELD sign requires you to give way to traffic on a major road.

DanWall

There is a lot of Stop signs where they should be Yield. If you don't stop at a stop sign you could get 2 penalty points and fined. Our town has 2 Stop signs on the main route through town (which should be Yield) and no one stops. I am looking out for the day Garda need more easy cash and book everyone.

exaisle

A motorist on a major road has priority over a motorist on a minor road which intersects it, hence the motorist on the minor road MUST yield right of way whether there's a sign there or not....the stop sign merely indicates that they must stop. Yielding right of way is implied because of the status of the relevant roads.

There's nothing confusing about the statute whatsoever.

CiniO

exaisle wrote: »

A motorist on a major road has priority over a motorist on a minor road which intersects it, hence the motorist on the minor road MUST yield right of way whether there's a sign there or not....the stop sign merely indicates that they must stop. Yielding right of way is implied because of the status of the relevant roads.

There's nothing confusing about the statute whatsoever.

All right - I found this:

(5) A driver of a vehicle approaching a road junction by a road which is not a major road shall, notwithstanding that there is no traffic sign indicating that the last mentioned road is a major road, yield the right of way to traffic and pedestrians on the major road.

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a8

So now it seems to be clear that, STOP sign actually indicates that the road you are entering is a main road, so you need to give way.

(2) Traffic sign number RUS 027 shall—
(a) indicate that traffic shall stop before entering a major road;

OK - now it's clear for me, but still presented in a strange way.
Like why there is a phrase about giving way after YIELD sign, if the same rule can apply.

8. (1) Traffic sign number RUS 026 shall—
(a) indicate that traffic shall yield right of way to traffic on a major road ahead;

If it was worded like "Traffic sign number RUS 026 shall indicate that road in front is a major road", it would mean the same, as there is obligation to give way to vehicles on main road from other regulation (quoted above), and then it would be consistent with STOP sign definition.

mickdw

Its an interesting one and no doubt the wording should be rewritten. If it makes no reference to the fact that the stop sign is on approach to a road of greater importance, there could be an argument made that there was nothing to alert the driver to the status of the main road or the fact that it was of greater importance specially in cases where no road markings exist.

Sobanek

CiniO wrote: »

I wasn't learning to drive in Ireland. In that place, I learnt that difference between STOP and YIELD sign, is simple. They both mean you have to give way to vehicles on main road, but before STOP sign you have to stop (even for a second) while before YIELD sign you can go without stopping if there is nothing on the main road.
Generally speaking, STOP signs should be in place where view into the main road is limited and it's impossible to see if main road is clear without stopping, while YIELD signs, should be in spots, where you can see the main road when approaching the junction, and you can see if there is anything coming on the main road or not, so there is no need for stopping if road is clear.

That's what I learnt on my driving lessons, and it all seems to be clear and logical.

Anyway now I live in Ireland, and I like to look into traffic law, so I did this time.



http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0181.html

Now we can see here, that yield sign obliges a driver to yield right of way, but stop sign only request driver to stop. Nothing mentioned here about giving right of way.


How is this supposed to work? Did they forget to include giving right of way with stop sign in the regulation? Or maybe there is something I don't know?

Obviously we are talking here only about theory, but after reading this driver could assume, he has to stop at stop sign, and then he can carry on, as his only obligation is to stop. Nothing mentioned about giving way.

Yield nie rozni sie chyba niczym od polskiego znaku drogowego A-7, prawda?

CiniO

Sobanek wrote: »

Yield nie rozni sie chyba niczym od polskiego znaku drogowego A-7, prawda?

No raczej prawda.
Ale juz STOP sie rozni od polskiego B-20, bo tam pisze tak:

B-20 STOP Oznacza:
1. zakaz wjazdu na skrzyżowanie bez zatrzymania się przed drogą z pierwszeństwem,
2. obowiązek ustąpienia pierwszeństwa kierującym poruszającym się tą drogą.
Zatrzymanie powinno nastąpić w wyznaczonym w tym celu miejscu, a w razie jego braku - w takim miejscu, w którym kierujący może upewnić się, że nie utrudni ruchu na drodze z pierwszeństwem.

Victor

CiniO wrote: »

No raczej prawda.
Ale juz STOP sie rozni od polskiego B-20, bo tam pisze tak:

http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D75635668%26postcount%3D14

Yield not think anything differs from the Polish road sign A-7, right?

No more truth.
But already the STOP differs from the Polish B-20, because there writes:

B-20 STOP means:

First prohibition of entry into the intersection without stopping in front of the priority road,

Second duty to resign the primacy directing moving this way.

Detention should take place in the designated spot, in case of his absence - in a place where the leader can make sure that does not impede traffic on the road with priority.

I'm not sure what difference you are making. If there is a stop sign, you must stop at the line on the road. If there is no line on the road, you must stop at the sign itself.

CiniO

Victor wrote: »

http://translate.google.ie/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D75635668%26postcount%3D14


I'm not sure what difference you are making. If there is a stop sign, you must stop at the line on the road. If ther eis no line ont he road, you must stop at the sign itself.

The difference is that Irish stop sign means to stop before the main road.
Polish stop sign means to stop before the main road and give way to vehicles on the main road.