Up against it

Matariki

Hello everybody , I've been suffering from a health condition for some time now. A side effect is that I sometimes have body odour coming through my skin which is not alleviated by washing. This is documented in medical records with my GP. I work in an office of about fifty people and for the past year about twenty of these people have been involved in vindictive slurs and constant sideways jibes in reference to body odour some of it being very crude. I'm not being paranoid as I've caught them gesturing towards me many times and the overuse and overemphasis of certain words is too much to be coincidental.

I've made my manager aware of my health situation and of the verbal abuse without naming names. I told him that he had my permission to make people aware that I have a genuine health condition but it doesn't seem to have helped. I'm not thin skinned , I've worked in building sites and sawmills , I know what regular banter and slagging is and I've been in tough scrapes. I'm 6' 2" and more than capable of dealing with trouble. The nature of the abuse is inuendo and indirect references and I don't know how to retort or deal with it. I sometimes wish the bullying was physical , that way I could fight back and defend myself. I dread going into work every day and I'm literally shaking writing this.

Has anybody here been in a similar situation or know what recourse I would have when it is so hard to prove the abuse?. I would go to the manager directly only for he is friendly with some of the people involved and I don't fully trust him.

cronos

Matariki wrote: »

Hello everybody , I've been suffering from a health condition for some time now. A side effect is that I sometimes have body odour coming through my skin which is not alleviated by washing. This is documented in medical records with my GP. I work in an office of about fifty people and for the past year about twenty of these people have been involved in vindictive slurs and constant sideways jibes in reference to body odour some of it being very crude. I'm not being paranoid as I've caught them gesturing towards me many times and the overuse and overemphasis of certain words is too much to be coincidental.

I've made my manager aware of my health situation and of the verbal abuse without naming names. I told him that he had my permission to make people aware that I have a genuine health condition but it doesn't seem to have helped. I'm not thin skinned , I've worked in building sites and sawmills , I know what regular banter and slagging is and I've been in tough scrapes. I'm 6' 2" and more than capable of dealing with trouble. The nature of the abuse is inuendo and indirect references and I don't know how to retort or deal with it. I sometimes wish the bullying was physical , that way I could fight back and defend myself. I dread going into work every day and I'm literally shaking writing this.

Has anybody here been in a similar situation or know what recourse I would have when it is so hard to prove the abuse?. I would go to the manager directly only for he is friendly with some of the people involved and I don't fully trust him.

In my opinion in situations like this it's best to just move on. They are not the type of people you want to be working with. In reality even if they stop being negative towards you, you still wont like the fact that they had to be told not to be negative towards you in order for them to stop. I know I wouldn't be happy anyway. I know in the economy it's not that simple to just move on. But attempting to move on might affiliate some of the stress anyway until you can find a new job even if it takes a good few months to do so.

Eoin

I think that you need to make it your manager's problem as well. You need to be very clear with him that this situation is making you very uncomfortable and that you need him to act on it.

sandra06

what a shower of assxxxxs,i not been funny but if they have a problem with you why not say it to your face ,talk to your manager and if he/she does nothing to help talk to the other staff yourself tell them whats going on with you ,its bad enough to have a condition which you have no controll over byt to be sneered at is wrong .you will probally find that people are understanding if they no whats going on ,and you will feel more at ease around them .i worked with a girl who had dreadfull feet she used to wash them in work at least 5 times a day some medical cond to, but when she explained what was wrong we were all more understanding so go for it and get it out of the way ,and if they still sneer fxxk them but i dont think they will good luck:D

eyesquirm

It amounts to bullying in the workplace. That makes it your bosses problem as well, and he/she is legally bound to do something about it.
AFAIK.

All the best with this.

Matariki

Thanks for the advice I've been leaving work feeling like the worst in the world for about a year now. It took a good friend to wake me up to the fact that I've done nothing wrong. I never had so much as a bad word with anybody in the place in the time I've been there and the latent hostility is unbelievable. It's like some messed up American high school film. I think the situation has become pretty untenable and I'm going to try and ride it out until Christmas and start looking for new work straight away.

I've arranged a meeting with the free legal advice group in relation to the legalities of recording conversations and how admissable they are in court. I reported the abuse to the HSA , they then contacted the company and said that a report of bullying has been made. It is anonymous and the person making the complaint is not named. Two days later and they're making comments about it behind my back. Their budies in the HR department had leaked it. One of them even giving the old wink , wink , nod , nod as she walked past the team. I swear to god you would find it hard to believe this place unless you actually experienced it for yourself.

One girl in particualr who has been very blatant in her remarks was so infuriated that I had the gall to make a complaint that she started intimating that I was a wimp of some sort. She then slides over to one of her buddies and after getting what she wanted says , 'The bullying session is over now'. I'll see what happens anyway. Thanks.

Nothingbetter2d

Body odour may be influenced by diet. Certain foods, such as curry, garlic and strong spices, contain chemicals that may be excreted in the skin.

try experimenting with different foods to see if u can find one that helps to mask the body odour your medical condition creates

good luck.

ongarboy

I know this doesn't solve the underlying issue of workplace bullies but perhaps to help limit some of the aggro, would you consider applying deodorant and/or aftershave on a frequent basis to keep the odour at bay? (perhaps nipping into the loo once an hour to top up).

I know you might say your condition is not your fault so why should you have to do anything to address it but if it helps reduce the no of snide comments/remarks etc, it might be worth it. Also, knowing that you smell more pleasant after applying deodorant on a frequent basis might make you feel less vulnerable at work.

RosieJoe

cronos wrote: »

In my opinion in situations like this it's best to just move on. They are not the type of people you want to be working with. In reality even if they stop being negative towards you, you still wont like the fact that they had to be told not to be negative towards you in order for them to stop. I know I wouldn't be happy anyway. I know in the economy it's not that simple to just move on. But attempting to move on might affiliate some of the stress anyway until you can find a new job even if it takes a good few months to do so.

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

Body odour may be influenced by diet. Certain foods, such as curry, garlic and strong spices, contain chemicals that may be excreted in the skin.

try experimenting with different foods to see if u can find one that helps to mask the body odour your medical condition creates

good luck.

ongarboy wrote: »

I know this doesn't solve the underlying issue of workplace bullies but perhaps to help limit some of the aggro, would you consider applying deodorant and/or aftershave on a frequent basis to keep the odour at bay? (perhaps nipping into the loo once an hour to top up).

I know you might say your condition is not your fault so why should you have to do anything to address it but if it helps reduce the no of snide comments/remarks etc, it might be worth it. Also, knowing that you smell more pleasant after applying deodorant on a frequent basis might make you feel less vulnerable at work.

Why does the OP need to alter their routine to suit the idiots that he works with? Move on, watch what you eat and spray yourself with stuff puts the onus on him to sort out the problem. The problem is more to do with the childish bullies he works with, not his mdeical condition!

Matariki

Thanks for the advice , you're completely right in that some of the reactions are out of line and excessive. I don't eat spicy or pungent foods , I have to eat a fairly bland diet. Deodorants , perfume etc make it worse. From what I've researched it may be secondary or acquired TMAU. It's not an area that the Irish health service really want to deal with. In the last month or so I've found some supplements that have alleviated the symptoms. Lymph drainage also helps. It'd be great to see some sort of education in schools and for GPs to be educated that there are metabolic conditions that can cause body odour that's not alleviated by washing or scents. Then if people still choose to be vindictive , callous pricks , it'll just fall back on them.

The atmosphere isn't great at the best of times anyway in the place on account of the bad pay. I'll be doing my best to get out in the new year. I've got good friends and family to keep me sane and I'm tough and stubborn enough to not let the eejits break me. But is is draining to know you're going to face the same crap every day. I'd love to write characters like the culprits in a screenplay and have them go the flicks or watch tv and see their own behaviour reflected right back at them.

Derrywumman

I have had this condition for years and have moved jobs in the past, because of it. In one workplace, it was hard to endure the comments 'Drop the dead donkey' hahaha... Foot spa for christmas... deodorant is very cheap... something is rotten in the state of Denmark... It might be funny to some people, but not to me.I have the situation at my current work too. I have not said anything to anyone, but I do notice people making faces and nodding at each other and the whispers. No one has said anything to me or made direct comments about smells, etc but that does not change the fact that I know that they know and I cannot do anything about it.When I talk one to one with people, I get anxious and that makes it worse. People bring out their hankie, or apply their hand cream or such like.It is a difficult situation. I am at my wits end. I do watch what I eat and some days are not so bad.
You mentioned you had got supplements - could you let me know what these are? Thanks.

Mrs OBumble

Someone asked why the OP should have to change his/her behaviour, to suit the idiot colleagues.

Well, it seems to me that this is one of the tricker types of post we get here, because every story has (at least) two sides.

I can imagine the sort of post that one of your colleagues might put here, eg "I've got this colleague who just stinks, sometimes I have to go to her desk and talk to her about stuff, and I just want to throw up. I mean like, how hard is it to use deodorant?"

In short, the OP has a body-situation that s/he cannot help, but it makes life unpleasant or worse for the colleagues. Education may help to some extent, but unless you're prepared to tell the colleagues the specifics, they're not going to know if your problem is metabolic or poor hygiene.

I've had a colleague with bad BO - and tbh, I don't care why he had it, as far as I was concerned he wasn't meeting the damn dress code, and the manager should have had the balls to sort it. Personally I just refused to sit next to him. Was I in the wrong? Maybe, maybe not? Why should my time at work have been made miserable because of his problems.

In short there is no real answer here ... just a need to try lots of different options until you find one that works.

castie

JustMary wrote: »

as far as I was concerned he wasn't meeting the damn dress code, and the manager should have had the balls to sort it

JustMary wrote: »

Why should my time at work have been made miserable because of his problems.

Absolute joke statements.
Its called work not a playground.
If theres issues you raise them with people.

Attitudes like the above is what leads to workplace bullying.
People feel that others dont deserve to share their space and should leave so that they may feel more comfortable.

A horrible attitude to have and if I found out one of the people working under me was behaving like this they would be in serious hot water...

tenchi-fan

I worked in an office with a guy who had BO due to a medical condition, fortunately several desks over from him.

It really was not pleasant for anyone. You could literally taste the smell when he walked past. I remember a girl getting so annoyed once that she sprayed air freshener around the place.

Op, I think you should really consider the fact that you're not the only victim here.

Try using medical-strength anti-perspirants (as opposed to deodorant), throughout the day wipe your armpits with flushable wipes, wear clothes that won't aggravate the BO, use different soaps, and wear strong aftershave. Consider sitting away from colleagues, possibly with a fan blowing or window open beside you.

RosieJoe

I think we are all aware that the OP can do things to possibly alleviate the problem. And from his subsequent posts we see him trying to do things to make it better.

We also see that some people take offense to the smell and will not tolerate it. IMO people should give a little leeway if it is a medical condition.

However, I think it is ignorant/childish/offensive for the people mentioned in the 1st post to pass snide remarks about the OP. This to me is the worst aspect of this thread. :mad:

Mrs OBumble

castie wrote: »

Absolute joke statements.
Its called work not a playground.
If theres issues you raise them with people.

Attitudes like the above is what leads to workplace bullying.
People feel that others dont deserve to share their space and should leave so that they may feel more comfortable.

A horrible attitude to have and if I found out one of the people working under me was behaving like this they would be in serious hot water...

'Fraid I disagree.

If there are issues, it's the manager who shoudl be raising them, and getting them solved, not the other employees. The other employees responsibilties are simply to be 100% professional in their treatment of colleagues, even if the colleagues don't reciprocate.

For example, in the case I quoted, most certainly did not say to Fred (name changed, obviously) "I'm not sitting beside you 'cos you stink", or treat him differntly. But I privately told my manager that Fred's hygiene was a health and safety issue for me, and asked her to assign me to a different desk - knowing full well that everyone else was refusing to sit there, for the same reason. In the end she solved it by giving Fred a desk away from everyone else. Some may say this was "bullying" (social isolation) - but he was delighted at having a quiet work area, and we could work without gagging.

While she could theoretically have told me, and the rest of the team, that we just had to put up with it, the consequence would have been that we would all have been job hunting. It simply wasn't an option if she wanted to keep her team, and keep us motivated.

(FWIW, I still think she should have told him about the problem: that would have humiliated him in the short term, but would have given him the chance to sort it in the longer term. Instead, it's probably still career-limiting for him, and sickening for his colleagues. But that's another story).


My point is that in some so-called bullying situations, managers to have to weigh up the rights of all the people involved: your right to freedom to wave your arms around ends about six inches in front of my nose.

I hate the term "bullying" when it's applied to adults - it puts serious things (eg assault) on the same level as trivia like colleagues deciding to go for an after-work drink together without inviting the other team member who they don't like.

And I disagree that the "victim" should never be asked to change their behaviour: in those cases where their behaviour contributed, then it's only fair to give them some options to make life better the next time the issue arises.

Derrywumman

Apart from this, which is all valid, I have found some suggestions to deal with BO:

Use ph neutral body wash.
Use antibacterial hand gel - rub all over and reapply during the day to certain areas
Take charcoal tablets with meals - you can get these in Boots or elsewhere
Use Wheatgrass with meals - you can sprinkle it or drink it - it has chlorophyl which reduces body odour.
There are a few more suggestions if you google TMAU or fish odour syndrome, but
these seem the most straightforward. Hope this helps - I am trying it out too.

Head The Wall

There was a woman on The Food Hospital 2 weeks ago on Channel 4 with this condition. Read up about it here http://foodhospital.channel4.com/conditions/fish-odour-syndrome/

and watch it on 4OD Herehttp://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-food-hospital/4od

cursai

JustMary wrote: »

'Fraid I disagree.

If there are issues, it's the manager who shoudl be raising them, and getting them solved, not the other employees. The other employees responsibilties are simply to be 100% professional in their treatment of colleagues, even if the colleagues don't reciprocate.

For example, in the case I quoted, most certainly did not say to Fred (name changed, obviously) "I'm not sitting beside you 'cos you stink", or treat him differntly. But I privately told my manager that Fred's hygiene was a health and safety issue for me, and asked her to assign me to a different desk - knowing full well that everyone else was refusing to sit there, for the same reason. In the end she solved it by giving Fred a desk away from everyone else. Some may say this was "bullying" (social isolation) - but he was delighted at having a quiet work area, and we could work without gagging.

While she could theoretically have told me, and the rest of the team, that we just had to put up with it, the consequence would have been that we would all have been job hunting. It simply wasn't an option if she wanted to keep her team, and keep us motivated.

(FWIW, I still think she should have told him about the problem: that would have humiliated him in the short term, but would have given him the chance to sort it in the longer term. Instead, it's probably still career-limiting for him, and sickening for his colleagues. But that's another story).


My point is that in some so-called bullying situations, managers to have to weigh up the rights of all the people involved: your right to freedom to wave your arms around ends about six inches in front of my nose.

I hate the term "bullying" when it's applied to adults - it puts serious things (eg assault) on the same level as trivia like colleagues deciding to go for an after-work drink together without inviting the other team member who they don't like.

And I disagree that the "victim" should never be asked to change their behaviour: in those cases where their behaviour contributed, then it's only fair to give them some options to make life better the next time the issue arises.

That's a bit like asking the overweight or facially scarred/deformed person to move elsewhere in the office/workplace because some people are squeamish!

Claregirl

cursai wrote: »

That's a bit like asking the overweight or facially scarred/deformed person to move elsewhere in the office/workplace because some people are squeamish!

Completely missing the point. I too worked with someone who had a very offensive body odour. Don't want to labour the point but the smell was so bad that it made me feel unwell. I had no idea at the time if it was medical or a lack of hygiene but it made no difference to my tummy.

The comments and behaviour of the other staff is absolutely appalling and should not be allowed to continue that to me is the bullying, however the OP also has a responsibility to his work colleagues to do everything in their power to minimise the problem.

In my own situation I complained to my manager and he spoke directly to my work colleague, my colleague then addressed the situation and this led to a better work environment.

LegacyUser

O.p I believe you are doing your best to minimise the smell. You must go back to h.r. to a different person this time and tell them about the behaviour of the other h.r. team member and your colleagues, the harassment has escalated and so must your complaints. Well done for how you've handled it so far, good luck.