BUDGET HEALTH CUTS - opinions please. Article from todays Indo.

iguy

By Fiach Kelly, Michael
Brennan and Fionnan
Sheahan
Wednesday November 23
2011
A €50 tax on medical
cards, a €1.50 increase in
prescription charges and
widespread nursing home
closures are now among
swingeing Budget
measures being
considered by the Cabinet.
The stark measures were
outlined by Health
Minister James Reilly last
night in a series of
detailed briefings to Fine
Gael and Labour TDs.
Any charge on medical
cards would be potentially
explosive as the previous
government found out
when it tried to take away
automatic entitlement for
the over-70s.
And there are serious
differences among senior
ministers -- with tensions
mounting between Fine
Gael and Labour -- over
where the axe should fall
between social welfare
and health.
Sources said Public
Expenditure Minister
Brendan Howlin is hoping
to front-load the health
cuts in what is the second
biggest spending area
after social welfare, with a
figure of €500m in savings
mentioned.
However, it is understood
Dr Reilly favours spreading
the cuts out over a longer
period of three or four
years.
Fine Gael TDs last night
weighed heavily in behind
Dr Reilly, with one deputy
describing the cuts
outlined as "horrific,
terrible, awful".
Among the cuts being
discussed are:
- A €50 annual charge on
medical cards, which are
currently free.
- A €1.50-per-item
increase in prescription
charges from 50c to €2
for those on medical
cards.
- The closure of as many
as 40 nursing homes
because of a cut of 842
long-stay beds.
- Shelving proposals to
provide free medical care
to those claiming free
drugs under a long-term
illness scheme.
- Significant cuts in the
level of home help.
- As much as €35m less
for the long-delayed
mental health strategy.
A breakdown of the
closure of long-term beds
in nursing homes by Dr
Reilly shows that 293 may
go in the Dublin-Mid
Leinster HSE region; 208 in
Dublin North-East; 212 in
HSE West and 129 in HSE
South.
Fine Gael TDs last night
described the cuts as
"draconian" and said Mr
Howlin was asking Dr
Reilly to cut too much too
fast.
They expressed concern
that nursing home
closures could pile
pressure on already
stretched hospitals.
The proposal to tax
medical cards could
provoke uproar, and the
Fianna Fail-Green Party
coalition was rocked in
2009 by its move to
withdraw an automatic
entitlement to the card
for the over-70s.
More than 1.5 million
people are now covered
by medical cards, which
entitle patients to free GP
care and drug costs.
Reluctant
Dr Reilly is said to be
extremely reluctant to tax
medical cards or increase
prescription charges.
As recently as March 16 --
when he was just a week
in office -- he promised to
scrap the 50c charge,
saying it was preventing
people getting their
medicines. The latest
proposals include
quadrupling the charge.
Dr Reilly briefed the
Labour parliamentary
party and a meeting of
the Fine Gael internal
health committee, which
was attended by around
30 TDs, at two separate
meetings yesterday.
He told TDs that already
stretched hospitals around
the country would be put
under even more pressure
by the proposed cuts in
long-term bed numbers.
"You'd clog up the
hospital system," one TD
said after the discussions.
"It's all very unpalatable,
he needs to be given
more time to do it,"
another Fine Gael TD said.
"He needs more time to
spread it out."
Taoiseach Enda Kenny
said the Government was
coming to the end of its
discussions on the Budget
but admitted some
ministers had "views" on
specific issues.
"Tomorrow, we have to
continue our discussions
about adjustments for the
Budget and I hope that
we can conclude
matters," he said.
It comes after Social
Protection Minister Joan
Burton said cuts to child
benefit were on the cards,
with a flat €10 across-the-
board reduction
mentioned, and an €8 cut
to the dole.
Oireachtas health
committee chair Jerry
Buttimer said the planned
reforms of the health
service could not be
carried out with this level
of cuts.
- Fiach Kelly, Michael
Brennan and Fionnan
Sheahan
Irish Independent

iguy

Well here's my opinion,
Where are people going to get the money for all these charges,
its hard enough to get by already!

suicide_circus

1.5 million people covered by the medical card...thats a lot more than I thought...

blorg

Link:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/medical-card-holders-face-euro50-charge-as-cuts-bite-2942499.html

bleg

50 cent charge has been a success. People stop getting months and months of meds when they don't need them, only to stockpile them at home. I don't think many people have stopped taking their meds. Dunno how the increase would affect it.

The 50 euro charge is grand as well but I wonder how it will be collected.

Giselle

Are frail 90 year olds supposed to sleep on the streets if they close nursing homes?

Frank Black

Giselle wrote: »

Are frail 90 year olds supposed to sleep on the streets if they close nursing homes?

We're having a lovely mild winter so far so shouldn't be too bad.

d-gal

iguy wrote: »

Well here's my opinion,
Where are people going to get the money for all these charges,
its hard enough to get by already!

With the amout of money they get from the dole!

hondasam

Those with medical cards should pay more for prescriptions, too many people are abusing them as it is. I would exclude oap's and children from this extra fee.

Tax on medical cards for the year, yes why not, if people want them badly enough they will pay the tax.

Home help is another area that is open to abuse and needs to be looked at.

hondasam

iguy wrote: »

Well here's my opinion,
Where are people going to get the money for all these charges,
its hard enough to get by already!

What about people with no medical card, €70 for the doctor, prescription extra, people with medical cards have it to soft.

It's hard for people who are working to get buy also.

Terry

I'll save my rage for when the cuts are actually made, and not just speculated about.

Also, 'people on the dole are spongers' in 5...4...3...2...

danniemcq

People on the dole are spongers

danniemcq

sorry had to be done!

on topic now i can see the 50 quid being a tough one for individuals and familys. It would make sense for the people to have a euro a week thing set up so the Governemnt will probably demand it all up front.

Although i have found that any time i have had to go to docs or hospital was for something fairly major (nothing life threatening broken bones, torn muscles etc) but when in waiting room there would be a fair amount of people there for minor things (basic sniffles etc) so not only are they taking up time and resources but if they are given antibiotics on top of this its also bad for everyone as it means the bugs and viruses are becoming more and more immune.

There has to be a middle ground its just a matter of will it be found

spank_inferno

The proposed cuts are fine, for the simple reason that Ireland is running out of other peoples money to spend.

I've no problem with a leaner more equitable health service, and it should not be a bonanza for those with a medical card.

In fact, bring on a system similar system to the UK.... free for all at the point of access (especially for those of us who pay for the rest to use for free).

seamus

Not really sure what the big issue is here. €50 for all the medical care you can eat? How can I avail of such a fantastic offer? Oh look, I can't. I have to pay €1,500 a year to ensure that any medical needs my wife and I have are even remotely looked after. But even then I still have to pay for most of medical care.

And I'm one of the lucky ones. What about people who don't qualify for a medical card, but can't afford insurance. They're the ones we need to be looking out for.

Our healthcare system is ****. It doesn't know where it is at the moment. We need to completely rebuild the whole thing and either for a "free for everyone" system or a US-style "free for no-one" system, instead of this joke of a halfway system we have at the moment.

starbelgrade

I was
unable
to
read
the article
due to it's
strange
paragraphing
style.
It reminded
me of
taking
an
eye
test only
the letters
are all
the same
size.

the groutch

Will be interesting to see if Eamonn Gilmore will stand over the curtailing of the A&E in Loughlinstown hospital, which is in his constituency.

amacachi

Feel for others paying the 50 but there's no chance I will. Most meds can be gotten with far less hassle (you don't get treated like a junkie in pharmacies looking for some OTC painkillers) in NI anyway along with the huge amount of own-brand generics driving the price down.

charlietheminxx

Our Minister for Health is a total tosser.... Can't see him actually stopping any of this from being introduced.

Every day I feel increasingly sickened by our government.

danniemcq

seamus wrote: »

Not really sure what the big issue is here. €50 for all the medical care you can eat? How can I avail of such a fantastic offer? Oh look, I can't. I have to pay €1,500 a year to ensure that any medical needs my wife and I have are even remotely looked after. But even then I still have to pay for most of medical care.

And I'm one of the lucky ones. What about people who don't qualify for a medical card, but can't afford insurance. They're the ones we need to be looking out for.

Our healthcare system is ****. It doesn't know where it is at the moment. We need to completely rebuild the whole thing and either for a "free for everyone" system or a US-style "free for no-one" system, instead of this joke of a halfway system we have at the moment.

Just outta curiousity have you rang your insurer and asked to move you to the company policy that most matches your private one?

Its the only good thing that FF ever did for everyone and that is make it in such a way that whatever policy is offered to anyone in Ireland MUST be offered to everyone else. Its like a loophole that works for the general public.

For example i got my ma to switch from whatever one she was on to a company version. All the stuff she was covered with is there but she saved 500 quid a year.

Was on TodayFM few months back and the best thing is insurers are used to it now and there is no hassle!

hondasam

charlietheminxx wrote: »

Our Minister for Health is a total tosser.... Can't see him actually stopping any of this from being introduced.

Every day I feel increasingly sickened by our government.

Hope you have a medical card, otherwise it will cost you.

amacachi

seamus wrote: »

Not really sure what the big issue is here. €50 for all the medical care you can eat? How can I avail of such a fantastic offer? Oh look, I can't. I have to pay €1,500 a year to ensure that any medical needs my wife and I have are even remotely looked after. But even then I still have to pay for most of medical care.

And I'm one of the lucky ones. What about people who don't qualify for a medical card, but can't afford insurance. They're the ones we need to be looking out for.

Our healthcare system is ****. It doesn't know where it is at the moment. We need to completely rebuild the whole thing and either for a "free for everyone" system or a US-style "free for no-one" system, instead of this joke of a halfway system we have at the moment.

Personally my issue with it is that along with most "cuts" being made it's just a ridiculously roundabout way of making the numbers work. Take 2-3 quid a week off the dole, pension and other incomes supports. Bang, done and dusted. No paperwork, no stress for people on the dole with kids having to lay out a couple of hundred in one go for the medical card.

woodoo

I think the €50 is a great idea.

seamus

danniemcq wrote: »

Just outta curiousity have you rang your insurer and asked to move you to the company policy that most matches your private one?

I'm on a company policy, though I pay the full premium myself

The Davestator

woodoo wrote: »

I think the €50 is a great idea.

For people with a few kids, is it going to cost 50 per card? That won't work as families won't have 200 euro to pay out. (when taken with 100 property tax, increased cat etc etc)

danniemcq

seamus wrote: »

I'm on a company policy, though I pay the full premium myself

ouch! thats not good. Still at least its a kinda middle finger at the health insurers!

charlietheminxx

hondasam wrote: »

Hope you have a medical card, otherwise it will cost you.

Hahaha, unfortunately not

hondasam

The Davestator wrote: »

For people with a few kids, is it going to cost 50 per card? That won't work as families won't have 200 euro to pay out. (when taken with 100 property tax, increased cat etc etc)

The Government is considering increasing motor tax by up to 5% in next month's Budget. We will have to pay this increase. what's the difference.

Frank Black

The Davestator wrote: »

For people with a few kids, is it going to cost 50 per card? That won't work as families won't have 200 euro to pay out. (when taken with 100 property tax, increased cat etc etc)

Cut back on the Whiskers and your cat will return to normal size - then use the savings from your cat food to pay for the medical card.

What's the problem?

suicide_circus

The Davestator wrote: »

For people with a few kids, is it going to cost 50 per card? That won't work as families won't have 200 euro to pay out. (when taken with 100 property tax, increased cat etc etc)

THEN STOP HAVING KIDS YOU CANT AFFORD AND EXPECTING THE REST OF US TO PICK UP THE TAB!!!
*cough*
Ehh...carry on

Benny_Cake

A small per- GP visit charge of even 2 euro would probably be fairer and easier to implement.A lot of people depend on the medical card but there is certainly some abuse too - in the long run a system of universal insurance with premiums which depend on a person's income should be introduced.It's ridiculous to give someone all services for nothing on one income level,and then cut them off completely if their income rises slightly.

reprazant

Benny_Cake wrote: »

A small per- GP visit charge of even 2 euro would probably be fairer and easier to implement.A lot of people depend on the medical card but there is certainly some abuse too - in the long run a system of universal insurance with premiums which depend on a person's income should be introduced.It's ridiculous to give someone all services for nothing on one income level,and then cut them off completely if their income rises slightly.

So who pays the €68?

The state?

The government is trying to save money here.

the groutch

The Davestator wrote: »

For people with a few kids, is it going to cost 50 per card? That won't work as families won't have 200 euro to pay out. (when taken with 100 property tax, increased cat etc etc)

borrowed more than you could afford and stuck in negative equity?

suicide_circus

I pay 60euro per "consultation" with my GP, while 1.5million of you cünts pay nothing...AND I then pay for your visit through my taxes!!! I actively avoid visiting the doctor due to the cost even if I'm in rag order. There should definitely be a per visit charge for free-ride card holders.

SEPT 23 1989

Thought the OP was a 16th Century poem

mickydoomsux

Meh, neither of those things effects me because i don't have a medical card and i haven't been to the doctor in about a decade.

I think the €50 tax is fair enough, it's hardly unreasonable to ask people who have a medical card to pay the equivalent of less than one GP visit for the privilege of having free GP care for the 364 other days of the year. If you can't afford it then you need to take a serious look at your life/budgeting skills.

The prescription tax has been shown to be a success so far so it makes sense to increase it.

blorg

reprazant wrote: »

So who pays the €68?

The state?

The government is trying to save money here.

He is suggesting medical card holders pay €2 to see the doctor. Currently they pay €0. The idea is to dissuade frivolous visits (same as the prescription charge.)

Benny_Cake

reprazant wrote: »

Benny_Cake wrote: »

A small per- GP visit charge of even 2 euro would probably be fairer and easier to implement.A lot of people depend on the medical card but there is certainly some abuse too - in the long run a system of universal insurance with premiums which depend on a person's income should be introduced.It's ridiculous to give someone all services for nothing on one income level,and then cut them off completely if their income rises slightly.

So who pays the €68?

The state?

The government is trying to save money here.

The idea would be to save money by reducing unnecessary GP visits -as happened when they introduced the prescription charge.There are people who genuinely depend on the medical card and wouldn't be able to afford the 70euro - the state will pay a lot more if they postpone treatment and turn up at hospital in a critical condition.

ArmaniJeanss

Benny_Cake wrote: »

the state will pay a lot more if they postpone treatment and turn up at hospital in a critical condition.

Possibly balanced out if a good proportion die before getting the treatment.

The Davestator

the groutch wrote: »

borrowed more than you could afford and stuck in negative equity?

What a stupid post. Thanks for your concern but not in negative equity thankfully but that doesn't stop me feeling for people who are struggling. When one proposed budget increase is taken in isolation, it's not too bad but when you combine them all, it's going to be impossible for lots of people.

Gavin "shels"

The Davestator wrote: »

For people with a few kids, is it going to cost 50 per card? That won't work as families won't have 200 euro to pay out. (when taken with 100 property tax, increased cat etc etc)

Childrens allowance. As for property tax, I doubt people who are on rent allowance will be paying property tax so a lot of Medical Card holders won't be effected.

suicide_circus wrote: »

I pay 60euro per "consultation" with my GP, while 1.5million of you cünts pay nothing...AND I then pay for your visit through my taxes!!! I actively avoid visiting the doctor due to the cost even if I'm in rag order. There should definitely be a per visit charge for free-ride card holders.

+1 €20 a year and then €5 per visit imo.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Meh, neither of those things effects me because i don't have a medical card and i haven't been to the doctor in about a decade../QUOTE]

Don't you pay tax? Therefore you are effected.


My trip to the doctor 2 weeks ago (sinus infection which I held out for a week with before giving in), cost me €50 for the GP and €24 for prescription. That's nearly half my wages in a week spent. :mad: