League of Ireland facilities..

blue-army

Build it and they will come
By Paul Walsh

Sligo Rovers lifted the FAI Cup for the second year in a row on November 6th, but the most encouraging aspect of the day was the 21,662 fans that passed through the turnstiles at the Aviva Stadium. Last year had seen an even more impressive crowd of 36,101, but that was seen as a once off as Irish football fans took an opportunity to watch a football match at the new stadium at a reasonable price. Given that the average attendance in the League of Ireland Premier Division in 2011 was 1,559, the question needs to be asked, would better facilities and stadiums lead to increased attendances?

Well the club in the Premier Division with the largest average attendance is Shamrock Rovers, with an average figure of 3,665 attending home games at the Tallaght Stadium. This stadium had an eventful journey to fruition since 1996 when a new consortium took over the club and announced a plan to build a 10,000 seat stadium in Tallaght. Their first match in Tallaght was 13th of March 2009 and in the intervening period it faced objections, an internal fan lead coup and the club almost going out of the business.

The stadium that is now the clubs home is a 6,000 seater multipurpose stadium which has hosted Rugby League Internationals, American Football, an archery tournament, a marching band competition and of course, Europa League games.

Rovers installed an additional stand containing 2,500 seats at the car park end of the ground to bring the capacity up to 8,600. The fact that UEFA gave their approval for Rovers to play their Europa League group stage games at Tallaght Stadium gave an official seal of approval to the facilities when benchmarked against European stadium.

At the other end of the attendance spectrum in the Premier Division are clubs like Drogheda United and UCD. In 2011 Drogheda United had an average attendance of 708, while UCD had 615. These clubs would have modest facilities when compared to the likes of Tallaght Stadium and the Aviva Stadium. Also given their low average attendances, it is hard for the clubs to improve facilities due to lack of funds. So how do clubs get the money they need to improve facilities and attract more supporters?

Norway has a population of 4.8 million. Republic of Ireland has a population of 4.4 million. Yet despite our similar sized populations the Norwegian league attracts more supporters and has far superior facilities. The stadiums in Norway have seen significant improvements being made over the last 10 years as Norwegian football journalist Vergard Rinne explains.

“All stadiums are all-seaters because there has been a kind of revolution in that area in the last decade. A lot of clubs have expanded their stadiums.”
The funds to do this came from a cyclical process started with Rosenborg’s success in the Champions League.

Rinne explains. “It came from Rosenborg distributing the money they got around the league (by buying players from other clubs). Also TV deals have been very important. The last one in 2007 gave the clubs £100 million pounds over three years”.

The FAI negotiates the TV rights for the Airtricity league as part of a wider package including international games. A figure of £100 million pounds for TV rights for the domestic game would certainly be fantasy land figures for the League of Ireland at its present stage of development.

Also, although we have seen Shamrock Rovers make progress this year in Europe, their performances in the Europa League group stages seem to indicate they still have a distance to travel to qualify for the money spinning Champions League group stages. So a Rosenborg type team that could benefit the whole league is not likely in the short term.

Added to this is the sad news about Bohemians who instead of improving their facilities find themselves in a financial position which means they have to sell Dalymount Park, the original home of Irish football. This development will lead to an enforced exile for The Gypsies as they will have to come to an agreement with another club to share their facilities.

However, could formal permanent ground sharing proposals improve facilities in the League of Ireland and, in turn, increase attendances? There is precedent around the world as clubs in Milan, Rio, Rome and Munich share grounds with their biggest rivals. The economic argument is simple: share the costs with both clubs investing in the facilities for the benefit of both clubs.

So, for example Bohemians could ground share with Shelbourne and Drogheda could ground share with Dundalk. None of these clubs would be natural comrades but if a plan could be put in place which would lead to improved facilities and attendances, would the benefits be worth the loss of identity?

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7090/

Interesting enough article..

What do ye think? Would better stadiums attract more people to games?

I think people would still come up with excuses not to go!

Groundshare could definitely be the way to go for some teams.. although it's a long way off yet!

AgileMyth

blue-army wrote: »

Interesting enough article..

What do ye think? Would better stadiums attract more people to games?

I think people would still come up with excuses not to go!

Groundshare could definitely be the way to go for some teams.. although it's a long way off yet!

Who's going to pay for these stadiums?

The only thing holding the league back is the ridiculous obsession with English football that exists in this country.

Corholio

AgileMyth wrote: »

Who's going to pay for these stadiums?

The only thing holding the league back is the ridiculous obsession with English football that exists in this country.

Without wanting to open the EPL/LOI can of worms, this is indeed a bigger factor IMO. It isn't even mentioned in the article so already it's a half baked one. I dont think a huge amount of people dont go to games just because there's not a bar in the ground, or very comfy seats etc.

Zebra3

blue-army wrote: »

What do ye think? Would better stadiums attract more people to games?

Of course more people would go if there's better facilities. The question is, how many? And would there be a return on the investment?

And the biggest question of all, is there anyone out there willing to pony up the bread to make it happen?

And the answer to that question, is no.

Facilities is only one part ot it. Look at how many times the old Lansdowne was sold out to watch terrible football. The odd time I come across a Gah match on the box while flicking through the channels, you can see fans standing on grass verges. Look at the crowds that still stand on the Hill in Croker in the pissings of rain. People will stand in a field of mud watching a big name gig.

If Euro2012 was being played in derelict stadia would it put anyone off going?

The League has a lot of problems (and lot of pluses) and poor facilities is just one of them.

(Even the best grounds (Tallaght and Turner's Cross) aren't owned by the clubs that play in them).

dsmythy

The FAI Cup final and Shamrock Rovers arguments can be explained by bandwagoning, event junkying and fair weather supporting.

The EPL is huge in Norway too but it doesn't seem to keep fans away.

gimmick

Turners Cross is arguably the best LOI ground. All seated and all sides are covered (major flaw is the away toilets are portaloos). There are fast food outlets in the ground as well as coffee stalls and the usual chocolate and crisps stands. So "facilities" are really a huge issue.

The product on offer is not up to scratch and people have it ingrained in them that they can never watch such "crap". Add the fact that the league is horrendously badly run and that is why people stay away.

Fr Tod Umptious

Poor article really.

No insight in it at all

It's just a statement that

Shamrock Rovers have a good ground and good attendances,
Drogheda and UDC do not
In Norway they built good grounds with Rosenburgs CL money
That will not happen in Ireland cos we will not have any CL money to spend for years if at all.

A 15 year old could have written that for a school newspaper.

And as other have said the facilities are only part of the reason for poor attendances.

Gavin "shels"

gimmick wrote: »

Turners Cross is arguably the best LOI ground. All seated and all sides are covered (major flaw is the away toilets are portaloos).

Em the portaloos mustn't work! When we travelled down there this season the stewards were letting 3 people across to the Derrynane Rd Stand (think that's the one), until a few of our Board sorted it out, and a steward escorted us over. :rolleyes: Good luck if that's still the case when the likes of Shams travel down and they have a crowd much larger than ours.

Tallaght Stadium is by far the best LoI stadium.

stovelid

gimmick wrote: »

The product on offer is not up to scratch

This is balls to be honest. At least in a football sense. It's a premiership fanboy argument. Though not a surprising one from you given that you often seem to go out of your way to put off people attending LOI despite supporting it yourself.

The assertion that mismanagement puts off people going doesn't seem to apply to English clubs..or indeed people seem to get over their dislike of LOI managment to attend games against marquee foreign opposition don't they?

The GAA has no foreign competitor to compare itself to for 'standard' of 'product' and it does fine. In pure sporting terms, teams do not have to be as good as Manchester United and Barcelona to provide a decent local sporting spectacle.

Where the 'prodiuct deficiency' is valid is in terms of the facilities which, excluding the likes of Turners X and Tallaght really need to be imrpoved to attract families.

I think that people do have to accept that the LOI will probably always be a relatively league. The majority of Irish people won't attend local games unless we have teams that are amongst the best in the world. End of. Plus half the people here that support English teams possibly wouldn't even attend games if they lived in England. That's not even a sly jab: the whole idea of how soccer is globally consumed at the top level is changing.

At the end of the day: the question asked of the LOI is always how can it be better. But the only answer people want is "as good as the EPL" which will never happen.

I lived in Norway by the way. People are nuts about the EPL but they support their own teams too. Nobody I met there ever poured the amount of hatred and vitrioil on their own league that you always encounter here - even the ones that didn't support a local team.

That said, I think we could have a lot more people at games here. Even to Championshiip level attendnaces with a bit of foresight and investment into facilities - but it is needed from the FAI, government and local authorities not just clubs. The municipal stadium model is clearly the way to go.

stovelid

Plus the cup final example is always a bad idea.

It's like comparing GAA championship and league attendances althougn it is interesting that modest attendances for league games and huge ones for championship games is viewed as good for GAA and the same (albeit on a smaller scale) is viewed as an example of soccer in decline.

Also consider the amount of people that would attend world cup tournament games compared to (non-crucial) qualifiers in soccer.

Any club in the world will have people only turning out for big games.

_blank_

Championship Level? Are you crazy? The championship was only recently passed by the MLS in terms of crowd size this season, MLS is now 10th - IN THE WORLD.

I wonder what % of population attend LoI games, as compared to that same % in England attending games of, say, the top 4 divisions totalled - remembering that the Premier League is the biggest crowd puller, and the Championship itself is #11 in the world (#10 until this season remember).

What % of Norwegians attend domestic games? Swedes? Croats?

stovelid

Des wrote: »

What % of Norwegians attend domestic games?

Have no clue now. I did live there in the mid 90s which was arguably before EPL fever really kicked in globally so maybe it's changed now.

dsmythy

Des wrote: »

Championship Level? Are you crazy? The championship was only recently passed by the MLS in terms of crowd size this season, MLS is now 10th - IN THE WORLD.

I wonder what % of population attend LoI games, as compared to that same % in England attending games of, say, the top 4 divisions totalled - remembering that the Premier League is the biggest crowd puller, and the Championship itself is #11 in the world (#10 until this season remember).

What % of Norwegians attend domestic games? Swedes? Croats?

Good luck finding proper figures!

My rough go at it using http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attncontent.htm

Not sure how accurate the site is. If it were true, taking the average attendance of the LOI Premier Division only, compared to the most recent population size works out roughly as so.

Norway's top division beats the English Premier League in the percentage of population on average showing up to a game. Our top division is beaten by both.

However the percentage of fans paying in for Irish top league games as a percentage, is similar to English people showing up for Championship games. I didn't include Wales' population.

Now what I worked out is probably horribly skewed by other factors but it gives you an idea. Like I said I don't know how accurate the figures are on that site either.

_blank_

So we don't do too badly, in real terms then?

dsmythy

Des wrote: »

So we don't do too badly, in real terms then?

In theory but it doesn't take other factors into account like age profiles of the populations or how many Championship teams sell out and could sell more versus how many Irish teams can't fill out their stadiums etc.

dfx-

gimmick wrote: »

The product on offer is not up to scratch and people have it ingrained in them that they can never watch such "crap". Add the fact that the league is horrendously badly run and that is why people stay away.

Not really about product. It's about success. I've been to Rovers games in Turner's Cross 5-10 years ago with crowds of 6,000-7,000 with the old Shed. Last time I was there in 2009, there was about 2,000 at a push with the new shiny 'Shed' stand and a 1-1 draw when there was practically no-one else in half of the Derrynane Rd Stand.

Same as Dundalk, awful facilities at Oriel - probably the worst in the current Premier, but if Dundalk do well, it's packed. Been at league games in the First Division on horrible nights with 4,000 there. Been there in front of 200 this season in an improved level with better players playing for Dundalk.

I remember 15 Derry fans in Richmond when they lost 5-1 ten years ago. In contrast to the millions back in the late 80s and 300-500 in 2005/2006. Same with Drogheda recently. Awful ground, used to be packed out. Rovers were getting better attendances in the First Division in Tolka than they were in 2008 as Scully's regime slowly (very slowly) fell apart. Same ground and facilities, different results.

It's all about success in the LOI.

aidan24326

Poor quality football football won't get any better by playing it at Wembley, so it's the actual standard of football that needs to improve rather than the grounds. And it's kind of a catch 22 because the only thing that will improve standards is bigger attendances laeding to higher revenue. It says alot when so many Irish players would rather ply their trade in the lower leagues in England, playing for the likes of Rochdale or Macclesfield rather than stay in the LOI. The fact we have one of the top leagues in Europe right next door doesn't help either in terms of encouraging people to leave their armchair and head out to a game.

CSF

aidan24326 wrote: »

The fact we have one of the top leagues in Europe right next door doesn't help either in terms of encouraging people to leave their armchair and head out to a game.

Realistically this makes no sense. The proximity bears no relevance when you're sitting on your arse watching TV.

born2bwild

Don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to romanticise the LoI's failings but if you're looking for something to do that still has its own identity, is still uniquely Irish, then you will do very well to find a better way to spend your time than going to matches in our own football league.

Globalisation makes things look and sound and smell and taste the same the world over: off the shelf airports and shopping centres, Americanised accents, rootless collections of millionaire athletes playing at the behest of billionaire investors. Paying sixty Euros a month to believe in better.

Enough. I want nothing to do with any of it.

The standard of football and facilities will improve in our league because people, sooner or later, are going to see past the lies and nonsense and become part of the solution in their own country.

AgileMyth

CSF wrote: »

Realistically this makes no sense. The proximity bears no relevance when you're sitting on your arse watching TV.

The proximity means people can convince themselves they are actual supporters of the clubs there.

KCAccidental

one major problem with LOI as opposed to facilities is the inability for Ireland to hold on to it's talented youngsters from 14 years old onwards who are regulary cherry picked by english and not just premier league clubs, but also championship and league 1 clubs youth systems as well.

having an injection of exciting, talented youths would have an enormous effect on the attractivness of the league of Ireland to the more casual fan. somewhere where they could see the future internationals of tomorrow ply their trade locally. obviously the leagues standards would have to raise for the players to carry on their development, but would following the IRFU's example and handing centralised contracts to the brightest and best be beneficial? maybe if there was a direct parallel with a magners league scenario for the 4 celtic nations.

It saddens me to see young players, who for the most part are brought up from a young age playing football the right way in the schoolboy/youth leagues, who are then snapped up by clubs in England with short termist strategies which drive the groundwork of passing football out of them in the chase to keep their dream alive. If these youngsters were to go abroad I would prefer to see them learn in Holland, France or pretty much anywhere on the continent. they would become better players imo.

overshoot

gimmick wrote: »

The product on offer is not up to scratch and people have it ingrained in them that they can never watch such "crap".

i dunno how many times iv heard the lads go after an ireland game, the Mervue game or whoever was better to watch (and we, Harps, played some shite this year). Lets face it, ireland with the premier players arent good to watch but they are winning and will easily beat this year's cup final for any senior game for attendance. we are also a good marker for facilities. 2-3,000 if we are winning, 4-600 this year, and you dont even have to go back a decade to see the swing. attendance is decided by glory, simple
some people are just convinced there is no entertainment in the loi. their loss

Rhys Essien

What people are forgetting about the league is that it is amateur,it was never really pro.

Also Soccer is probably our third sport after GAA and Rugby.It is the national sport for a lot of countries.

Also the government over the years were very favourable towards GAA,Horse racing,Greyhound Racing(building their lovely stadiums)but never gave anything towards Soccer,only tax clubs out of existance.

Finally if John Delaney thinks its fair to pay already millionaires 3-4 million for reaching Euro2012, when the premier division champions play a season for a reward of €100,000. , then the whole thing is truly going backwards

I more than anyone would love to see the league given a major cash injection/overhaul.

Zebra3

Rhys Essien wrote: »

What people are forgetting about the league is that it is amateur,it was never really pro.

Amateur? Really?

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Also Soccer is probably our third sport after GAA and Rugby.It is the national sport for a lot of countries.

You have got to be joking. Football is the number one sport in this country.

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Also the government over the years were very favourable towards GAA,Horse racing,Greyhound Racing(building their lovely stadiums)but never gave anything towards Soccer,only tax clubs out of existance.

Clubs put themselves out of existence.

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Finally if John Delaney thinks its fair to pay already millionaires 3-4 million for reaching Euro2012, when the premier division champions play a season for a reward of €100,000. , then the whole thing is truly going backwards

Delaney thinks it's fair that he gets €400k a year. :rolleyes:

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I more than anyone would love to see the league given a major cash injection/overhaul.

There's plenty on here would say they'd love it more.

But it ain't gonna happen.

Rhys Essien

KCAccidental wrote: »

one major problem with LOI as opposed to facilities is the inability for Ireland to hold on to it's talented youngsters from 14 years old onwards who are regulary cherry picked by english and not just premier league clubs, but also championship and league 1 clubs youth systems as well.

having an injection of exciting, talented youths would have an enormous effect on the attractivness of the league of Ireland to the more casual fan. somewhere where they could see the future internationals of tomorrow ply their trade locally. obviously the leagues standards would have to raise for the players to carry on their development, but would following the IRFU's example and handing centralised contracts to the brightest and best be beneficial? maybe if there was a direct parallel with a magners league scenario for the 4 celtic nations.

It saddens me to see young players, who for the most part are brought up from a young age playing football the right way in the schoolboy/youth leagues, who are then snapped up by clubs in England with short termist strategies which drive the groundwork of passing football out of them in the chase to keep their dream alive. If these youngsters were to go abroad I would prefer to see them learn in Holland, France or pretty much anywhere on the continent. they would become better players imo.

I have no problem with young talent leaving but what makes me sick is that clubs here are being raped for pittance.

Cork City has 3 ex players playing in the premiership with Doyle,Long and Meyler currently valued around 15 - 20 million.Do you think Cork City would/will get any of it with sell ons etc.

applehunter

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I have no problem with young talent leaving but what makes me sick is that clubs here are being raped for pittance.

Cork City has 3 ex players playing in the premiership with Doyle,Long and Meyler currently valued around 15 - 20 million.Do you think Cork City would/will get any of it with sell ons etc.

No.

Creditors of old holding company might though.

overshoot

Zebra3 wrote: »

You have got to be joking. Football is the number one sport in this country.

ah its not, GAA definately ahead, rugby & football close enough. football maybe ahead. Motorsport possibly ahead? guaranteed a few thousand at any rally, the likes of donegal expected 70000 last year. (270,000 for wrc 09)

No.

Creditors of old holding company might though.

would cork not get something as they were part of their youth development? still pitance overall though

Ebbs

overshoot wrote: »

would cork not get something as they were part of their youth development? still pitance overall though

"Different" clubs. The cork city that they played for went out of existence.

LoI will never get to the stage of EPL/Championship in terms of attendances. Even if you look at the catchment areas of clubs, the likes of Tallaght, cork and Derry are the only real places where you can sustain big crowds. I'd imagine Dundalk are (were) the best supported club in terms of the high percent of attendance from local population. In dublin you have a lot of teams going for such a small area, look at how close Tolka and Dalyer are.

I dont ever see clubs reaching 10k attendances. I would imagine the highest potential average for the league is verging on 5k. That is a huge huge figure when you think about it and would require the likes of Rovers, Derry and Cork pulling in 10k every second week.

Zebra3

Rhys Essien wrote: »

I have no problem with young talent leaving but what makes me sick is that clubs here are being raped for pittance.

Cork City has 3 ex players playing in the premiership with Doyle,Long and Meyler currently valued around 15 - 20 million.Do you think Cork City would/will get any of it with sell ons etc.

That club no longer exists.

overshoot wrote: »

ah its not, GAA definately ahead, rugby & football close enough.

GAA is not a sport. It is an organisation that deals with several sports.

overshoot

Ebbs wrote: »

"Different" clubs. The cork city that they played for went out of existence.

oh yea... well if they stood by their debts!!! (although at least some of their fans tried). then again if the FAI recognises them as the old club, does UEFA through them?

i think a good few clubs could reach 5k but the problem is they would have to be successful for it, and for one to be successful another cant be so their crowds will drop a bit.

aidan24326

AgileMyth wrote: »

Who's going to pay for these stadiums?

The only thing holding the league back is the ridiculous obsession with English football that exists in this country.

Why is it ridiculous for people to be interested in a league where the standard is so far superior?

Zebra3 wrote: »

You have got to be joking. Football is the number one sport in this country.

It isn't really. In terms of numbers of members, crowd attendance etc Gaelic Football is our number one sport. Though soccer is ahead of rugby I would think. In my home county, Galway, the Galway Utd soccer team don't really register on most people's minds. What little support they get comes almost exclusively from the city.

In a county where the gaa teams can attract thousands of supporters and even the Connaught rugby team would get decent crowds, Galway Utd just don't seem to have ever really got beyond having a small core support, and why that is I don't really know. On the face of it there's no obvious reason why the Connaught rugby team should get 5,000 down in the Sportsgrounds while Galway Utd might struggle to get 500 (ignoring the fact they were particularly crap last season).

paddy978

CSF wrote: »

Realistically this makes no sense. The proximity bears no relevance when you're sitting on your arse watching TV.

It makes plenty sense.

Dotrel

Here's a fairly good indicator of attendances across Europe in the various divisions
http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

As for Irish attendance I don't exactly know what would be deemed "good" by the general public? I mean you have to factor in that Ireland is about 1/10th the population of England to start with and football is at a disadvantage here by being easily compared to a superior product across the water. It's a recipe for not getting big crowds and whether your ground has nice facilities or not really isn't going to make that much of a difference.

srfc19

aidan24326 wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous for people to be interested in a league where the standard is so far superior?

Its not ridiculous to be interested. I'm interested in the EPL in much the same way I'm interested in football around the world, I'm a football fan, I like watching football. I just happen to like live football a lot more than I like watching it on telly.

It's the obsession with the EPL that is ridiculous. The belief that it is the best league in the world and no other league comes close.

The "We, Us and Ye" thing that grown men in Ireland constantly use when referring to clubs a couple of hundred miles away who you have no connection to.
The teams that take your Sky Sports money and your jersey money and your one game a season money and offer you the chance to follow the team, but not really experience supporting your team.

I just can't understand why someone would rather watch this "super high level of top top top Sky Sports football" than watch a real game at a decent level.

_blank_

I love watching the Champions League, the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga if I can be bothered and Serie A if I can be bothered.

I sometimes, if I'm free, prefer to walk around to the local green on a Saturday afternoon and watch a match there instead of one on the TV.

Every second Friday from March to November, I'll usually be at Tolka, and an away ground next season seeing as Shels are back in the Dublin League.:pac:

And then, of course, every Tuesday, I watch my own team play.


There IS room for more than one "football" in a person's life.

It's not ridiculous, to me anyway, to want to watch the very best. I love football, so of course I want to watch the best players, it would be stupid not to

stovelid

aidan24326 wrote: »

It isn't really. In terms of numbers of members, crowd attendance etc Gaelic Football is our number one sport. Though soccer is ahead of rugby I would think. In my home county, Galway, the Galway Utd soccer team don't really register on most people's minds. What little support they get comes almost exclusively from the city.

In a county where the gaa teams can attract thousands of supporters and even the Connaught rugby team would get decent crowds, Galway Utd just don't seem to have ever really got beyond having a small core support, and why that is I don't really know. On the face of it there's no obvious reason why the Connaught rugby team should get 5,000 down in the Sportsgrounds while Galway Utd might struggle to get 500 (ignoring the fact they were particularly crap last season).

Do you support GAA? I assume you don't bother with Galway and support the superior product of Kilkenny hurling or Kerry football as they are only a few hours away?

stovelid

Des wrote: »

I love watching the Champions League, the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga if I can be bothered and Serie A if I can be bothered.

I sometimes, if I'm free, prefer to walk around to the local green on a Saturday afternoon and watch a match there instead of one on the TV.

Every second Friday from March to November, I'll usually be at Tolka, and an away ground next season seeing as Shels are back in the Dublin League.:pac:

And then, of course, every Tuesday, I watch my own team play.


There IS room for more than one "football" in a person's life.

It's not ridiculous, to me anyway, to want to watch the very best. I love football, so of course I want to watch the best players, it would be stupid not to

That's not the issue. There is room for all levels of football on the palate of a genuine football supporter.

Zebra3

aidan24326 wrote: »

It isn't really. In terms of numbers of members, crowd attendance etc Gaelic Football is our number one sport.

In playing figures football is number one.

The GAA membership figure is huge based on people wanting cheap drink at the local clubhouse.

applehunter

More about local GAA clubs meaning a lot more to the community than the local soccer club.

aidan24326

stovelid wrote: »

Do you support GAA? I assume you don't bother with Galway and support the superior product of Kilkenny hurling or Kerry football as they are only a few hours away?

Now you're just being silly.

stovelid

aidan24326 wrote: »

Now you're just being silly.

How come?

I'm using your value system.

AgileMyth

aidan24326 wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous for people to be interested in a league where the standard is so far superior?

Interested is fine. I'm interested myself. But to actually 'support' these teams is ridiculous.


The superior standard thing doesn't hold up either. Why does anyone bother watching games that don't involve Barcelona if its all about seeing the very best of the best?

legendary.xix

AgileMyth wrote: »

Who's going to pay for these stadiums?

The only thing holding the league back is the ridiculous obsession with English football that exists in this country.

It is but if you look back at the last decade, a lot of money was misspent by clubs. They'd have been better off putting their money into facilities etc.

The facilities are a reflection of the league. It's not good at the moment. It wouldn't deter me but as a spectacle overall it has to be worked on.

I don't think now is a time for the league to expand to 16. It's hard to implement at the moment with a few clubs in a VERY precarious state but the premier division will have to move in a direction where stadia will have to of a certain for teams to take part.