Late with rent

piperh

Hi, I'm just posting for my brother and his wife. They've been in a privately rented property for the last 7yrs and have maintained it well, paying for all the repairs such as heating breaking down, cooker breaking twice,leaking pipes and ceiling repairs, putting up side gate painting the outside every yr. Never late with rent which is paid by standing order, unfortunatly brothers job changed payment end of last month and swapped from weekly to mnthly with no notice(but hey its a job) now they are 3 wks late with the rent and the landlord is phoning and texting at least 3x a day to find out when he'll be paid.

They made a mistake in the first place of not telling him, thinking they'd be able to borrow money but it hasn't worked out that way and they won't have the money until the weekend but he will be paid then.

Surely contacting them 3 or more times a day is hassling them? He hasn't renewed their contract in 3yrs so they're worried they'll end up on street, they are registered with prtb.

Would anybody else think this is hassling them?

ABajaninCork

Did he tell the landlord his pay arrangements have changed?

As a side note: I don't think it's legal to change pay arrangements without suitable notice. You might wish to check this out...

Jaysoose

They should have told him, its not harrassment the landlord is entitled to his money.

Zamboni

The landlord is on the edge because he wasn't contacted with the information.
Have they communicated that he will be paid this weekend and the reason why the rent was late?

tittle mouse

op are they answering the calls or texts? have they told him a time frame of when he'll be getting paid? if they've ignored his calls then i would think the land lord is getting suspicious and i would understand why he is anxious to get in contact . if they have told him the problem well then hes been very unfair to them and they should consider finding somewhere else to live. There are many landlords out there that would love to get tenants like your brother and gf.

piperh

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Did he tell the landlord his pay arrangements have changed?

No stupidly they didn't tell him until a couple of days after their rent was due:rolleyes:

As a side note: I don't think it's legal to change pay arrangements without suitable notice. You might wish to check this out...

I'll tell him but i think he's just grateful to have a job at all.

Jaysoose wrote: »

They should have told him, its not harrassment the landlord is entitled to his money.

I agree he's entitled to his rent and they are not aguing either, but you'd think after 7yrs he'd realise that they're good tennants and as it is they haven't even asked him to drop rent in line with all the others. They are paying the same now as they were 6 yrs ago which is over €200 more than other houses in same estate. They've never quibbled rent.

Zamboni wrote: »

The landlord is on the edge because he wasn't contacted with the information.
Have they communicated that he will be paid this weekend and the reason why the rent was late?

Yes they have now told him but i was with sil this morning when he texted her 3x the first time asking if she had money for him, she told him no as it'd be saturday as discussed, the second time he wanted to know exactly what time on saturday and when she told him he text back saying it'd better be .

tittle mouse wrote: »

op are they answering the calls or texts? have they told him a time frame of when he'll be getting paid? if they've ignored his calls then i would think the land lord is getting suspicious and i would understand why he is anxious to get in contact . if they have told him the problem well then hes been very unfair to them and they should consider finding somewhere else to live. There are many landlords out there that would love to get tenants like your brother and gf.

As answer above yes they have answered his calls and even if missed them have called him back so he can't say they're avoiding him. I'd understand it more if it was more if the money wasn't paid on time normally but these calls started within 2 days of rent being late.

Seems to me like he's panicking because even if the money was used to pay his mortgage the bank wouldn't be on his back after such a short time if it was normally ok.

Zamboni

What is the end goal of this thread OP?

I mean, if the landlord hassles them with 3 rude texts a day until Saturday and then gets his rent and then everything goes back to normal, what's the problem?
Or if the LL continues being a dick after that and is being paid over the odds for rent than your relatives should move out.

Glenbhoy

piperh wrote: »

I'll tell him but i think he's just grateful to have a job at all.



I agree he's entitled to his rent and they are not aguing either, but you'd think after 7yrs he'd realise that they're good tennants and as it is they haven't even asked him to drop rent in line with all the others. They are paying the same now as they were 6 yrs ago which is over €200 more than other houses in same estate. They've never quibbled rent.

Why on earth are they paying more than the market rate? They should ask for a reduction, not doing so is silly and as the experience outlined shows, they're getting no extra credit or thanks from the landlord for it.

Tell them to have a bit of common sense and demand a reduction straight away.

piperh

Zamboni wrote: »

What is the end goal of this thread OP?

I mean, if the landlord hassles them with 3 rude texts a day until Saturday and then gets his rent and then everything goes back to normal, what's the problem?
Or if the LL continues being a dick after that and is being paid over the odds for rent than your relatives should move out.

The end goal would be other peoples opinions as to whether or not the landlord is being a dick or if i was just being overprotective of family. They've already accepted that they were wrong not to tell him but feel a little leeway wouldn't go amiss.

BostonB

Sounds like neither the tenants or the LL know their obligations to each other.

If the LL being that much moron I'd just leave. TBH they should do that anyway if its 200 to expensive for the area.

seanmc1980

paying for the repair and maintenance of a house, not getting the rent reduced in line with market rate? LL is laughing all teh way to the bank with tenents like that. Your brother seem sto be under an illusion that he's doing the LL a favor by renting the house.
LL has to pay his mortgage on that hosue so that prob why he's calling yoru bro and from what i can see your bro didn't clearly tell teh LL what day he will be paying the rent.

andre2010

yeah im not usually one to side with a landlord, but to be honest, your bro made the mistake here.

He should have told the landlord straight away about his situation. Remember this house wasnt free for the landlord and he is probably struggling himself to keep on top of payments, as everyone is. If your late with rent, it doesnt affect your bro or his credit rating, but if the landlord is late with the mortgage repayment then his credit is screwed and all because your brother didnt inform him.

The landlord has every right to contact him, as many times as he wants if the rent is late.

There is no way the landlord will kick him out based on what you have said. The landlord would risk losing that extra 200 a month if he got new tenants.

BostonB

If a Landlord has a Mortgage thats got nothing to do with the tenant.

Landlord can't kick them out unless he follows correct prodcedure.

andre2010 wrote: »

...
The landlord has every right to contact him, as many times as he wants if the rent is late....

Can you link to where you pulled that cracker from. You can't harass a tenant.

Tenant was wrong for not informing the LL, but the LL has to follow procedure.

You have to have some common sense about it though. If you want to stay in a place messing around with the LL isn't the brightest idea to achieve that. The LL could argue its up to the tenant to get a loan to cover the rent until the tenant catches up. Its not up to the LL to cover the gap.

piperh

I agree completely that they were in the wrong not to inform him in the first place and so do they, i think they've learnt their lesson the hard way. Just since i've posted this they've had 2 more txts and a phone call. All of which they've answered. Its the constant texting and calling thats getting a bit much as they've told him he'll have the rent this weekend(big sis to the rescue:rolleyes:).

I do feel now they should find the receipts for the work/repairs they've had done and show him and say anything further he will have to pay as they are not prepared to any longer and discuss lowering the rent to a reasonable limit.

stepbar

I think it's time to call a meeting with the Landlord and lay the suitation out on the table -

The gist of what I would be saying is as follows:-

1. Don't appreciate being harrassed - attidute is taking the p1ss, lucky not reporting to the PRTB.
2. 7 years in the house (assuming rent paid on time) - made repairs etc at own expense. Reiteriate point 1.
3. Have continued to pay the same rent for 6 years - now want rent reduction.
4. If this doesn't happen, we're moving out.

And leave it at that. It's clear that the Landlord is a bit of a snake if he's not prepared to give a bit of leeway given the track record of the tenants.

Ray Palmer

stepbar wrote: »

I think it's time to call a meeting with the Landlord and lay the suitation out on the table -

The gist of what I would be saying is as follows:-

1. Don't appreciate being harrassed - attidute is taking the p1ss, lucky not reporting to the PRTB.
2. 7 years in the house (assuming rent paid on time) - made repairs etc at own expense. Reiteriate point 1.
3. Have continued to pay the same rent for 6 years - now want rent reduction.
4. If this doesn't happen, we're moving out.

And leave it at that. It's clear that the Landlord is a bit of a snake if he's not prepared to give a bit of leeway given the track record of the tenants.

1. The PRTB will not do anything. Tenant didn't pay the rent. Harrasment actually has a full legal definition and if somebody is asking for something you owe them it isn't actually harrasement
2. They should never have really made any changes to the property without the LL consent. To suddenly ask for money for repairs they should have informed of is a bit strange as they should have got him to do it in the first place. A tenant "fixed" a shower in my place and caused more damage as he did it wrong
3. If they never asked for rent reduction being angry about not getting one is just idiotic. Nobody reduce rent without being asked
4. Not much of a threat it is actually pretty easy to find tenants

The LL has every right to be annoyed with them for their behaviour to respond by being angry back is one way that doesn't work to resolve a problem.

OS119

Ray Palmer wrote: »

...Harrasment actually has a full legal definition and if somebody is asking for something you owe them it isn't actually harrasement...QUOTE]

thats true, apart from the bit where it isn't.

Irish law is very clear - Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 (S10) - on the definition of harrassment, and it contains no additional rights for those to whom money is owed.

once the 'ower' has confirmed that the rent will be paid - and when - the LL has no reasonable excuse to contact the tenant, and thus would contravene the act.

the rest of your post is similarly drivel - nothing in the OP's writings suggest that any of the repairs/alterations have been done without the consent of the LL, and yes, the LL is going to have a problem finding a tenant at €200 over the market rate.

BostonB

Ray Palmer wrote: »

....Harrasment actually has a full legal definition and if somebody is asking for something you owe them it isn't actually harrasement....

I think it is, I've heard of similar in Ireland I just can't find a link. But I can find a UK one.

http://www.tenantstips.com/Latest-News/Landlord-Harassment-for-Rent-results-in-fine-of-700

Also (this is Irish)

All debt collectors, including private individuals and debt collection agencies, are covered by Section 11 of the Non-Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997. This provides that a person is guilty of an offence if he/she makes any demand for payment of a debt and if:

The demands are so frequent as to be calculated to subject you or a member of your family to alarm, distress or humiliation

petethebrick

The landlord is completely acting the b*ollocks. Your brother has been a great tenant by the sounds of things and if the rent is a bit late for once it's no big deal as long as he has been properly informed. If he has been informed and keeps ringing I'd seriously tell him to f*ck off. Your brother is daft for paying for house upkeep himself but that's his own fault. If the landlord continues to act the maggot I'd advise your brother to tell him to keep the deposit in lieu of the late rent and to find another place. It's a renters markets these days.

Ray Palmer

OS119 wrote: »

...Harrasment actually has a full legal definition and if somebody is asking for something you owe them it isn't actually harrasement...QUOTE]

thats true, apart from the bit where it isn't.

Irish law is very clear - Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 (S10) - on the definition of harrassment, and it contains no additional rights for those to whom money is owed.

once the 'ower' has confirmed that the rent will be paid - and when - the LL has no reasonable excuse to contact the tenant, and thus would contravene the act.

the rest of your post is similarly drivel - nothing in the OP's writings suggest that any of the repairs/alterations have been done without the consent of the LL, and yes, the LL is going to have a problem finding a tenant at €200 over the market rate.

So you know the PRTB are not a criminal court so not interested in harrasement as such . You go to the Gardai about that stuff.

Nothing in the post suggest the LL gave consent. More the fool who pays for repair work on a rental property that they did not casue. If they casued it then they pay for it so it is a wash.

If you think LL should give rent reduction without asking I really wonder who is talking drivel

A tenant is very easy to find and rent is going up. If they have been over paying for so long again their own fault. So you know they have quite a large notice period before they leave too.

If you think addressing conflict with your LL is best dealth with by attacking back then you obviously missed how humans interact. What would I know I talk drivel:cool:

petethebrick

Ray Palmer wrote: »

OS119 wrote: »

What would I know I talk drivel:cool:

Exactly! You're hardly a landlord by any chance ray?? Don't listen to this nonsense OP.

BostonB

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So you know the PRTB are not a criminal court so not interested in harrasement as such ....

Harrassment certainly comes up in the PRTB determinations and reports. Its imposssible to konw the outcomes as they are not searchable.

piperh

Ray Palmer wrote: »

1. The PRTB will not do anything. Tenant didn't pay the rent. Harrasment actually has a full legal definition and if somebody is asking for something you owe them it isn't actually harrasement
2. They should never have really made any changes to the property without the LL consent. To suddenly ask for money for repairs they should have informed of is a bit strange as they should have got him to do it in the first place. A tenant "fixed" a shower in my place and caused more damage as he did it wrong
3. If they never asked for rent reduction being angry about not getting one is just idiotic. Nobody reduce rent without being asked
4. Not much of a threat it is actually pretty easy to find tenants

The LL has every right to be annoyed with them for their behaviour to respond by being angry back is one way that doesn't work to resolve a problem.

On point 1, My brother has accepted responsibilty for not informing the landlord beforehand and told him when he'll get the money. The txts are still happening.

Point 2, No repairs were undertaken without the landlords permission and in most circumstances such as when the boiler broke or the cooker he told them to call somebody out and he'll drop the money down to them and never did. But without his permission did not feel right just stopping it from his rent, stupid maybe but they were trying to play fair. The painting of outside, treating the fence panels were all asked about first. They have to live there and want a decent home.

Point 3, no they are not angry at the landlord and accept they should have asked him but i feel that he should realise he's been lucky and give some leeway now.

Point 4, No its not easy to find tennents in this area. I emailed 4 agents and only 1 said they could put tennents in within the month. All of them said expected rent was €200 less than they are paying.

They have treated him fairly for years and i feel he has taken it for granted that they will continue to do so.

The_Conductor

piperh wrote: »

Seems to me like he's panicking because even if the money was used to pay his mortgage the bank wouldn't be on his back after such a short time if it was normally ok.

In the current climate- its entirely possible that unless he has an arrangement with his mortgage supplier- they may be contacting him wondering what the story is, even after its only a few days late. They are not allowed to do this for mortgages on PPRs, they certainly are on Buy-to-let property however.

piperh

smccarrick wrote: »

In the current climate- its entirely possible that unless he has an arrangement with his mortgage supplier- they may be contacting him wondering what the story is, even after its only a few days late. They are not allowed to do this for mortgages on PPRs, they certainly are on Buy-to-let property however.

Thanks i didn't realise that, i assumed that if the mortgage was good and upto date then the bank would at least give a month. Thought there was a thing now where banks were being more lenient to arrears?

Can you tell i know little about mortgages:rolleyes: Pleased to say i don't have one and hopefully never will.

stepbar

Ray Palmer wrote: »

1. The PRTB will not do anything. Tenant didn't pay the rent. Harrasment actually has a full legal definition and if somebody is asking for something you owe them it isn't actually harrasement
2. They should never have really made any changes to the property without the LL consent. To suddenly ask for money for repairs they should have informed of is a bit strange as they should have got him to do it in the first place. A tenant "fixed" a shower in my place and caused more damage as he did it wrong
3. If they never asked for rent reduction being angry about not getting one is just idiotic. Nobody reduce rent without being asked
4. Not much of a threat it is actually pretty easy to find tenants

The LL has every right to be annoyed with them for their behaviour to respond by being angry back is one way that doesn't work to resolve a problem.

You clearly must be a landlord and a deluded one at that. If you think its OK to harass a good tenant who has paid their rent ON TIME for the past 6 YEARS, then you have other issues. The tenant has stated that he will pay on X date and has provided a genuine reason for the delay. The fact that the landlord is still sending text msgs says something about the way he operates.

3. If they never asked for rent reduction being angry about not getting one is just idiotic. Nobody reduce rent without being asked

Where did you take that nugget from? Surely not from what I said here?

3. Have continued to pay the same rent for 6 years - now want rent reduction.

In fact where did I say one needed to get angry at all?


Thankfully the tide has turned when it comes to dealing with landlords / estate agents etc in this country. There's lots of property out there for rent and in this case the tenants should just move on if that's what the Landlord thinks of them. I certainly wouldn't put up with sh1te like that.