Is TNG Universe Really Dead

mister_h

The more i think about Abram's Movie, the more i realise that the foundation of certain TNG, DS9 and VOY timelines can remain intact and exist as in the New universe. There would be, however, some interesting changes to this universe.

For Example, With less Vulcans in the Galaxy, perhaps the Federations altruistic beliefs have become a bit hazy over the years. Decisions like The Treaty of Algeron(The neutral Zone and prohibitions against federation Cloaks) may have played out differently.

The Federation may not have had the time or the patience to handle Romulan and Klingon Diplomacy as well as they did.

Also, Think of how Vulcan ideology affected Picard over the years. Would he still be the same man or would he be different? Given that his teachers were ultimately Spock and Sarek, perhaps he would be the same.

What is your opinion on this and what other changes do you think may have occurred?

Myrddin

mister_h wrote: »

The more i think about Abram's Movie, the more i realise that the foundation of certain TNG, DS9 and VOY timelines can remain intact and exist as in the New universe. There would be, however, some interesting changes to this universe.

For Example, With less Vulcans in the Galaxy, perhaps the Federations altruistic beliefs have become a bit hazy over the years. Decisions like The Treaty of Algeron(The neutral Zone and prohibitions against federation Cloaks) may have played out differently.

The Federation may not have had the time or the patience to handle Romulan and Klingon Diplomacy as well as they did.

Also, Think of how Vulcan ideology affected Picard over the years. Would he still be the same man or would he be different? Given that his teachers were ultimately Spock and Sarek, perhaps he would be the same.

What is your opinion on this and what other changes do you think may have occurred?

No changes, I consider the movie & its plot entirely separate to established canon. It's just a way of wiping the slate for new writing.

TNG universe is dead in terms of writing though, it's all been said & done at this point and the whole thing has become saturated.

mister_h

EnterNow wrote: »

TNG universe is dead in terms of writing though, it's all been said & done at this point and the whole thing has become saturated.

If someone were to create a new TV series set in the late 24th century following on from the events of the new movies would you not watch it?
After all it is a way of starting anew but you could have several nods to the original universe. Characters would show up with different personalities and agendas and events would play out differently. Even though it would be set after the events that led spock back in time to avoid offending the die hard fans, it would be entirely isolated from what came before.

Myrddin

mister_h wrote: »

If someone were to create a new TV series set in the late 24th century following on from the events of the new movies would you not watch it?
After all it is a way of starting anew but you could have several nods to the original universe. Characters would show up with different personalities and agendas and events would play out differently. Even though it would be set after the events that led spock back in time to avoid offending the die hard fans, it would be entirely isolated from what came before.

I'd certainly watch it & give it a fair chance, but its a tired old predictable formula now.

The problem is shows like LOST, Fringe etc have raised the bar so high now, that in todays world the TNG universe would sink fast

nyarlothothep

EnterNow wrote: »

I'd certainly watch it & give it a fair chance, but its a tired old predictable formula now.

The problem is shows like LOST, Fringe etc have raised the bar so high now, that in todays world the TNG universe would sink fast

Lost? You mean lowered the bar.

mister_h

What if Abrams was on board with a 24th century tv series? The one thing that Star Trek always lacked in it's effort to create continuity was suspense. Fringe and Lost always end on interesting cliffhangers or plot development instead of Fringe division kicking back to play poker while the observer(data) makes some silly joke in an attempt to seem more human...hearty laugh...role credits

The best ending of a Star Trek episode was that one with those lobster thingys in TNG's Season one "Conspiracy". The episode ends with some mysterious signal being beamed off into space implying that we haven't heard the last of them....turns out we had. What a waist.

Suspense, Fear, Sex, the unravelling of the human psyche, challenging authority, consequences, death on a larger scale, politics, sedition, lying, challenging human morality. These things make good television these days and, for the most part, Star Trek on TV lacked these. The new movie touched on some of these and that's what made it successful. It would make great, relevant Television.

Sad Professor

I’d say that almost certainly is the end of the TNG universe. If they do return to it it won’t be for the universe itself but rather to the give the TNG cast one last hurrah. Which I can definitely see happening in some form, like maybe a mini-series or something, provided the Abrams reboot does represent a revival of the franchise.

nyarlothothep

mister_h wrote: »

What if Abrams was on board with a 24th century tv series? The one thing that Star Trek always lacked in it's effort to create continuity was suspense. Fringe and Lost always end on interesting cliffhangers or plot development instead of Fringe division kicking back to play poker while the observer(data) makes some silly joke in an attempt to seem more human...hearty laugh...role credits

The best ending of a Star Trek episode was that one with those lobster thingys in TNG's Season one "Conspiracy". The episode ends with some mysterious signal being beamed off into space implying that we haven't heard the last of them....turns out we had. What a waist.

Suspense, Fear, Sex, the unravelling of the human psyche, challenging authority, consequences, death on a larger scale, politics, sedition, lying, challenging human morality. These things make good television these days and, for the most part, Star Trek on TV lacked these. The new movie touched on some of these and that's what made it successful. It would make great, relevant Television.

While this does indeed make for great TV, plays and films in the traditional sense it is also the lack of these elements which made TNG so great. For many of its episodes it was essentially disconnected from human drives and concerns and in many ways was a pure intellectual exercise in abstraction. For example Time Squared is completely focused on unravelling the concept of meeting yourself from the future and trying to break a time paradox, I think basically its about theory of the mobius, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop, from which there is no escape. Measure of a Man is similarly concerned with the dilemma of AI and sentience. In none of these episodes are there really any concerns with primal urges such as fear or sex or human failings such as sedition. Its deliberately detached from such base emotions and drives which is praiseworthy, where it won out was the fact that it was one of the few sci fi shows on at the time which had the clout of a whole franchise behind it in addition to having memorable characters and shakespearean trained actors.

Goldstein

mister_h wrote: »

Suspense, Fear, Sex, the unravelling of the human psyche, challenging authority, consequences, death on a larger scale, politics, sedition, lying, challenging human morality. These things make good television these days and, for the most part, Star Trek on TV lacked these.

Human morality is the central theme above all others for roughly 703 Star Trek episodes. By extension, every piece of speculative fiction for that matter.

Let's have a quick punt at the other lacking elements:

Suspense: Best of Both Worlds...think that covers that one adequately.
Fear: Night Terrors, The Thaw, Schisms, Waking Moments, The Siege of AR-558,
Sex: Granted but it was before the days of modern grittier tv and was a family show.
The Human Psyche: Flute, Frame of Mind, Hard Time, The Loss, Nemesis (Voy),
Challenging Authority: Ro, Q, Shelby, Riker in Chain of Command and The Pegasus, Data's XO in Yesterday's Enterprise, The Wounded, Homefront & Paradise Lost,
Consequences: Tapestry, Kolvoord starburst maneuver, Yesterday's Enterprise, Future Imperfect, Force of Nature, Ensign Sito, Year of Hell, All Good Things, Timeless.
Death on a larger scale: Wolf 359, Seasons 4-7 of DS9?
Politics: Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges, Khitomer, The Maquis' situation,
Sedition/Lying: Eddington, Seska, Gowron's leadership battles, Valeris & Admiral Cartwright in TUC, Sloan, Garak.

mister_h wrote: »

Fringe and Lost always end on interesting cliffhangers or plot development instead of Fringe division kicking back to play poker while the observer(data) makes some silly joke in an attempt to seem more human...hearty laugh...role credits

Lost had cliffhangers for the sake of having cliffhangers. After a while it didn't even matter what they were. It was the biggest pyramid scheme since Khufu. Smoke, mirrors, a few clichéd nods and no trace of any substance or original thought. Abrams and later Kurtzman & Orci have brought those precise same qualities to everything they've ever been involved with.

mister_h wrote: »

The new movie touched on some of these and that's what made it successful.

The fringe writers having a lash off Star Trek was commercially successful for the same reason that Transformers was commercially successful.

mister_h wrote: »

It would make great, relevant Television.

It would be Terra Nova in space although I'm probably doing Terra Nova a disservice.

Cookie_Monster

EnterNow wrote: »

TNG universe is dead in terms of writing though, it's all been said & done at this point and the whole thing has become saturated.

TV maybe, books definitely not and some are pretty damn good too.
(so not 100% canon...)

Goldstein wrote: »

It would be Terra Nova in space although I'm probably doing Terra Nova a disservice.

That really really shit episode of Enterprise, lets not go there

Myrddin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

TV maybe, books definitely not and some are pretty damn good too.
(so not 100% canon...)

Ah yeah there are some great books, but like you say, this is canon only.

That really really shit episode of Enterprise, lets not go there

that ridiculous time travelling dino show on Sky?