Bernese-Collie problems

Bebo stunnah

I was wondering if anyone could help me with this, the girlfriends parents took in a Bernese Collie mix about 6 months ago, he was only a few weeks old at the time. It's just that they're having awful difficulty getting him to tame him a bit. I've tried several things to help this, such as training him to obey commands (eg. sit, lie, and fetching) using treats. Its just that he's never out for walks that I think is the problem? Her parents work all day, so it's a bit impractical for them to bring him out. So I've decided I'll bring him to the beach to run him out while I'm working nights.

The problem they have with him are as follows:
When he's in the house he's always running about, and very nearly fully grown but seems to think he's the same size he was 5 months ago. He hides behind the table When ya try to get him or try to tell him he's doing wrong or try to put him out (he wont go out unless food is thrown out, or we make vacuum cleaner noises as it frightens the bejaysus out of him). If the cat they have is in the room aswell, the first thing he does is run straight for it, or eat all the cats food.. he never does it if the cat isnt around! or if the cat's asleep, he goes over to the basket and puts his paw on it, sometimes two!

And when hes outside he tends to wreck the garden! everything he can touch seems to be thrown all over the garden! its a decent size garden, about half an acre, but probably not big enough im guessing? He has a shock collar fence thing, which after the first day of wearing and learning that when it beeped and then shocked (im sad to say i missed it) never went near the edges of the gardens since!

I'd like to know what's the best way to train this type of dog, and to get it to settle a bit? I'm assuming it needs alot more exercise than just tearing up the garden all day?

mymo

A tired dog is a well behaved dog, I work and I get up an hour early to walk my dogs on days I work. I never have any destruction, my two sleep all day, and did so when younger too.

He's still a puppy despite his size, and will need time to grow up. I would highly recommend a Kong, get a really big one and stuff some food in, then freeze it overnight, take it out in the morning and give it to him for breakfast (with small amount of normal food). It will keep him occupied for a good while.
The wreckage is due to his boredom, he needs something to keep him busy while they are working, if he was walked first he would sleep a good bit of the day.

What are they feeding him? some foods can have an effect, is he still on puppy food?
What age is he?

I would also look for some training and socialization classes, this will really help.

andreac

Why on earth did they get a dog if they cant exercise it?? God, sounds like the poor dog is bored out of its tree:(

The dog would benefit greatly from training classes which is great for tiring them out plus its good socialisation.

This dog needs to be walked everyday, and preferably twice daily. As the dog is still quite young, short walks are the way to go.

As its a collie cross its going to have huge amounts of energy as collies are working dogs so have very high energy so they need a lot of stimulation.

It also sounds like the poor dog has no boundaries either. But this will only be put into place if the dog is getting the correct guidance and training which must be ongoing.

Please dont be frightening the bejaysus out of him, hes only a baby and doing things like this to him could have a lasting affect on him in a bad way so stop this immediately.

Aslo, doesnt matter what size the garden is, if hes not being brought out for walks, of course hes going to wreck the place as he has nothing else to do but this!! Also, get rid of that bloody shock collar, no wonder the poor dog is mental when hes being electrocuted, its a poor puppy they are doing this too. Honestly, words fail me when i hear this kind of stuff being done to dogs and puppies...:mad::mad:

The only thing thats at fault is here is the poor puppies owner, and i honestly cant blame the poor dog for behaving the way he does when its being treated as you say....:(

Zulu

No exercise = destruction.

If our dog gets less than a 40min walk I can be assured of several things: she'll dig holes in the lawn, she'll chew her kennel, she'll chew the shed, she'll chew the fences, she'll dig up plants, she'll tear apart anything that come across her path. Oh and barking. Lots of barking.

I generally walk her between 45-90mins per day, & she's no trouble at all, but if I don't walk her for some reason...

Sadly working all day isn't an excuse not to walk the poor thing. Myself and my wife work all day, but we still walk the dog. It's simply something you HAVE to do when you have a dog. If they aren't prepared to walk the dog, would they consider a dog walker? If not, ...well it's not fair on the dog.


By the by at 6 months, it's going to be FULL of energy for a long time to come.

Whispered

OP loads of energy until about 3 years old I'd guess. And such a big dog too. Not a great choice for your parents in law if you don't mind me saying so.

How about for Christmas you get them the gift of a dog walker? Someone to come in once a day for an hour and bring the dog for a long tiring walk. You could couple this with a one on one training session in their home with a trainer. Once they see how quickly a trainer can get results with the dog and how much easier he is to manage after a walk a day they will (hopefully) keep it up.

Discostuy

Sounds like you have a Tazmanian Devil

The mix that he is means he is going to need a lot of exercise and training to keep him tired. He is a cross of 2 working dogs which means he isn't suited to lazing about all day.

Collie's have serious amounts of energy but have an amazing will to work and please. I've seen a lot of Collie's in beginner agility classes and the ease at which they pick it up and excel at it, is really impressive. I'd highly recommened agility classes if you or the family had the time/interest.

My advice would be to keep up the beach running. Try to get him into fetching a ball or stick as soon as possible...even better, get him to fetch it from the water so he swims at the same time.

You could try this with a cheap extendy-lead at first, so he can't run off. Everytime he returns the ball or stick (or comes back when called) reward him.

You're mad to go chasing him around the house...he just see's this as a game. No dog is going to come to you to be punished either

He is still only young and full of energy. All dogs need 1-2 walks everyday without fail. He is going to get worse as time goes by. A full grow dog of his mix will wreck a house if he has so much pent up energy.

Mental stimulation can also tire a dog out. As Mymo mentioned, Kongs are great. Hide+seek with some dog treats around the house or garden can work too.

Even on walks, training him to heel, wait, stay etc will help tire him out.

The important thing is patience, but training a dog (especially a working breed dog) to do jobs and tricks can be simple enough if you just keep it fun and enjoyable.

Its also really cool to see a dog doing something like agility courses when they are really into it.

Bebo stunnah

andreac wrote: »

Also, get rid of that bloody shock collar, no wonder the poor dog is mental when hes being electrocuted, its a poor puppy they are doing this too. Honestly, words fail me when i hear this kind of stuff being done to dogs and puppies...:mad::mad:

It's not actually shocking him constantly? if he goes over a wire (the garden boundary) the collar beeps, and after a few second if he doesnt go back itll give him a shock... it only took him one or 2 goes to figure it out.

A kong?

Also, due to some working changes both parents are working the same type of hours, so now that I'm back on nights, I'll be free for most of the day.. so ive offered to do the walking

andreac

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

It's not actually shocking him constantly? if he goes over a wire (the garden boundary) the collar beeps, and after a few second if he doesnt go back itll give him a shock... it only took him one or 2 goes to figure it out.

A kong?

Also, due to some working changes both parents are working the same type of hours, so now that I'm back on nights, I'll be free for most of the day.. so ive offered to do the walking

It doesnt matter whether its one shock or ten, its still cruel and even more so to put on a little puppy, have you ever had one of these around your neck and get shocked by it?

It really isnt surprising that this dog is behaving the way it is going by the way its treated and if things dont change drastically then things will only get worse.

Bebo stunnah

andreac wrote: »

It doesnt matter whether its one shock or ten, its still cruel and even more so to put on a little puppy, have you ever had one of these around your neck and get shocked by it?

Ive had it on my arm, its not exactly like i dropped a toaster in the bath or anything.. but its uncomfortable, so id imagine its a bit more noticable on the neck. Could you have suggested a better way to prevent an untrained puppy thats strong enough to break off a lead (or one of those garden spikes) from wandering off?

andreac

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

Ive had it on my arm, its not exactly like i dropped a toaster in the bath or anything.. but its uncomfortable, so id imagine its a bit more noticable on the neck. Could you have suggested a better way to prevent an untrained puppy thats strong enough to break off a lead (or one of those garden spikes) from wandering off?

Yes, a proper fenced garden or a dog run, simple

People shouldnt get dogs if they cant be responsible and make sure their garden is fenced in properly. Its up to the owner to make sure their dog is secure in the garden so it cant escape and cause an accident on the road, run over etc.

Whispered

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

Could you have suggested a better way to prevent an untrained puppy thats strong enough to break off a lead (or one of those garden spikes) from wandering off?

They're really not safe OP and dogs can and will escape them. Especially one with so much energy. A fence or a dog run would be safer and kinder and still give your parents in law some garden space for themselves with no dog holes etc.

You've offered to walk the dog, I bet this will solve half of their problems.

marley123

The dog is bored - plain & simple. What were they thinking getting the dog?? - The dog is a mix of 2 "working breeds" Collies are highly intelligent & they need to be kept very stimulated or yes they will become destructive -

Get a Kong, try hiding treats in the garden - give the dog something to do:)

Needs to be walked EVERY single day - get a dog walker if necessary, if the dog is in dublin can recommend someone.

Would also recommend some socialisation classes for him again can point you in the right direction & when dog hits 18mths give him a go @ agility!

marley123

As for Shock Collar - chuck it in the bin.. Hate the things they are out & out cruel.

Garden needs to be fully enclosed & if not possible a dog run needs to be built.

moving_home

http://www.zooplus.ie/ask?query=kong&num=20&form=search

can stuff the kong with their dry food and seal with pate/philalephia/chicken stock. freeze it so it lasts longer. can also use banana/natural yoghurt etc.

loads of feeding tools on zooplus aswell so you can stimulate the dog rather than just feeding from a bowl.

planetX

such an obvious answer!!! WALKS - doesn't matter how big the garden is, it's not the same.
my dog is the same age, and is half collie (probably;)) and behaves exactly as you describe if he's only had 1 walk in the day. I can't imagine how he'd be with no walks. Usually mine gets 2, plus I play in the garden with him, plus an hour in the garden in the dark before bed..... and he's still full of energy.
sounds like the wrong dog for them.

And the shock collar is cruel..... on a dog that isn't walked, even more so.

ShaShaBear

The same breed as my lad, who just turned 7 years old, and he isn't any less hyper. He was behaving just like you describe at my family home since I moved out and my mother isn't fit to walk him, so I took him here to live with me. Two jogs a day and a Kong with frozen liver paste results in him sleeping pretty much from 9-5. When I get in the door, he's always conked out on his armchair. Breed like that needs exercise. Sounds like he's even trying to provoke the poor cat into a good auld chase :P
As for the shock collar - disaster. Regardless of the fact that it is cruel, when this bad boy is a bit older, he might discover that once he gets over the electrical boundary that he won't get shocked and he's free. It's how my thoughtless cousin lost both his Siberian Husky boys in a motorway accident. Once one of them figured it out, the other risked it as well.

He needs a lot of walks and mental stimulation. And sounds like quite a delightful character :P

Bebo stunnah

Another point I found out today (after his first proper long walk) He's a brute on the lead, have the evidence of it on my fingers and also, he goes mental when he sees a car going by.. not sure if ill be able to trust him to come back off the lead, which is what he really needs, as walking along with me is hardly enough?

mymo

I would suggest that you get a halti or something similar, will help with the walking, it stops them pulling, great for larger dogs.

He's a brute walking as he has no training and isn't used to it, the more walking he gets the better, he will get better.

Get a whistle or something, as you see a car approaching blow to get his attention(I'm assuming at the moment calling him isn't having any effect), and when he turns to you show him a treat and make him wait for it until the car passes. Hopefully, you will be able to say his name to get his attention and reward him, so he learns car passing means treat if good.

Bookworm85

Hi OP,

I'll echowhat everybody else here has said.

1. Dog needs to be walked EVERY SINGLE DAY - NO EXCUSES
2. Bin the shock collar, not only is it cruel but they are totally useless once the dog is brave enough to run through the boundary.
3. Mental stimulation - try reinforcing any commands the dog already knows with something like clicker training and then progressing to more advanced commands Any collie/collie mix should be very quick to respond to it. Or what about agility training?

Link for clicker training

JustAThought

Good for you OP; sounds like you're doing a great job trying to help out this dog.
The breed mix is a bit of an energy disaster but fair dues to you!

The walks outside in another area are a must however you organise it they really have to happen! I was laughing my head off at the dog provoking the cat to play with it; must be really bored & playful poor thing!!! It will probably run mad with the excitement and freedom the first few (!) walks so see if you can bring it someWhere really big and relatively safe for that!!!

I do combination command walks to keep mine occupied ; I started it when the dog was younger & did it inside the house. Makes the dogfocus and think & tires her out;she really enjoys it too : )
So I make her heel, change directions still heeling, ask her to sit, resume heeling, lie, walk again at a heel, change sides toheel,Run while heeling, wait while standing then resume heel walking etc. It sounds dullbut the dog loves it and they have to think so it tires their destructive brain out!!! And it practices rhe different commands while not being out inthe rain and dark!!!!

At the risk of being screamed at online by the usual suspects who nag people to death if they don't agree with them and turn people off in droves, the collar is a practical solution that allows your big dog to roam free in a large area; lots of people have and use them including my neighbour whose dogs trot around inside its boundaries all day happily in freedom without getting mashed by traffic thanks to it.

Keep upthe good work you!

barbiegirl

I always thought the shock collars for bounderies were good until I realised that if the dog is strong willed enough, they don't work. I've had so many dogs run up to me still wearing their collars, that it's a joke. So sorry I would go down the run route.

I had much trouble with walking my jack russell as he was quite lead aggressive with other dogs. My local pet shop suggested pet corrector spray. It's condensed air that you spray for a short sharp burst when he does something I don't like. Not at him but near him. The dog doesn't like the sound. It stops the bad behaviour, brings his attention back to me and then I reward him. Now he happily greets other dogs and gets lots of rewards on walks out

As for the pulling a halti and training as recommended above.

Well done you for taking on the responsibility, may the puppy have a long and healthy life and may you grow to appreciate the joy that a dog brings to your life.

Bebo stunnah

cheers for all the advice, went into connacht gold yesterday and picked up some stuff, a halti, kong etc, will be trying them out today so will let ye know how that goes!

portgirl123

fair play to ya. only thing is, as far as i know. correct me if im wrong you cant just put the halti on and expect him to walk perfect you need to train the dog to get used to wearing the halti around his head/ face. as far as i know most dogs take a while to get used of the halti, im sure there is posters on here that will tell you how to do it

Zapperzy

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

cheers for all the advice, went into connacht gold yesterday and picked up some stuff, a halti, kong etc, will be trying them out today so will let ye know how that goes!

Fair play to you. You'l have to get him used to wearing the halti before you walk him on it, most dogs don't like wearing them.

To start off just hold the noseband open and hold a treat the other side so he has to stick his nose through it to get the treat. Do this until he's comfortable with it and then start by putting it on him, giving him a treat and immediately taking it off, build up the time he has it on but always give him treats or even give him his food while wearing it. Trick is to get him to associate it with good things and always distract him if he goes to pull at it. Eventually you can get him to wear it for a walk with out attaching the lead to it, then when you think he's comfortable wearing it attach the lead when he's already quiet (either around the house/garden or at the end of a walk when he's already too knackered to pull like a steam engine). This could take up to a week or two but it's better he gets used to it like this rather than just whacking it on him and him resenting it and sticking the brakes on during a walk.

Bebo stunnah

Ha! I came back to ask about the Halti thing! and see that people have already mentioned about him getting used to it! Ya i put it on him and yould swear i had jammed a fork in his nose! tried to bring him for a walk with it but only got about 100m away from the gate.. he struggled at it so much he got his nose out out of it and nearly took his normal collar off too! had to carry him back incase he took a run at a car!

The Kong on the other hand! Great shout! never seen him so settled! spent the guts of 2 hours sittin in the one spot tryin to get the peanut butter/food i jammed into it! one of thes ones http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/kongs/kong/139263
Its otugh gettin the peanut butter in though!

Zapperzy

Bebo stunnah wrote: »

Ha! I came back to ask about the Halti thing! and see that people have already mentioned about him getting used to it! Ya i put it on him and yould swear i had jammed a fork in his nose! tried to bring him for a walk with it but only got about 100m away from the gate.. he struggled at it so much he got his nose out out of it and nearly took his normal collar off too! had to carry him back incase he took a run at a car!

The Kong on the other hand! Great shout! never seen him so settled! spent the guts of 2 hours sittin in the one spot tryin to get the peanut butter/food i jammed into it! one of thes ones http://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/kongs/kong/139263
Its otugh gettin the peanut butter in though!

Has it a link that connects between the halti and the normal collar? As well as using the halti you can use more conventional lead training methods like turning and walking a few steps in the opposite direction everytime he puts pressure on the lead, relying on the halti alone will mean that the day you forget it or it breaks your back to square one.
And just to note that the halti must never be used with an extendable lead, only a short lead, as the jerk of getting to the end of an extendable will do some serious damage to the neck.