Methods to prevent Vegetable oil Freezing

Theanswers

Ok,
I drive a 1996 P38 2.5 RR. I'm running it on 80 veg/ 20 Diesel. I'm also adding a small amount of antifreeze type stuff for vegie to prevent it freezing.

However I'm also install a fuel preheater. Has two glow plugs in it and when the engine is up to temp the coolant from the engine will heat the fuel.

I still however am not happy that this will be sufficient in the really cold weather.

I'm looking at other methods such as a block heater which runs off mains or diesel. This would heat the coolant before I start the car and hopefully make starting easy if it gets really cold. and or a heated fuel filter.

What you guys think?
Thanks

Pigeon Reaper

Any of the duel fuel systems that I know of use diesel to start and heat up and only then to they switch to the veg oil. It'll be interesting to know how you fix this.

Theanswers

Well I do know you can use a single tank system in the RR. I just want to keep the ratio of veg/ diesel high example 90/10 diesel... during the winter.

I think my method should work as we are avoiding the cold start issues and hopefully it does not freeze in the tank.

If my anti freezing stuff works maybe the fuel heater would be sufficient and I reckon a means of heating the coolant would solve the problem.

_Conrad_

Theanswers wrote: »

Well I do know you can use a single tank system in the RR. I just want to keep the ratio of veg/ diesel high example 90/10 diesel... during the winter.

I think my method should work as we are avoiding the cold start issues and hopefully it does not freeze in the tank.

If my anti freezing stuff works maybe the fuel heater would be sufficient and I reckon a means of heating the coolant would solve the problem.

is this the engine coolant you want to heat? as in all of it? Not exactly a fantastic idea, probably better just to warm the fuel as much as you can. Running 90% veg and 10 diesel in that engine, in my view anyway, is asking for trouble if we get real cold weather. If that rangerover is still running the BMW 6 cylinder engine then i can't see that wanting to start from cold easily on that much veg

Theanswers

_Conrad_ wrote: »

is this the engine coolant you want to heat? as in all of it? Not exactly a fantastic idea, probably better just to warm the fuel as much as you can. Running 90% veg and 10 diesel in that engine, in my view anyway, is asking for trouble if we get real cold weather. If that rangerover is still running the BMW 6 cylinder engine then i can't see that wanting to start from cold easily on that much veg

Exactly, that is why I do not want to starting from cold with that much veg in the tank.

I'm trying to heat everything as much as I can.
By heating the coolant will that not heat the engine/ engine bay? Also I have a fuel preheater which will heat the veg.

I also might install a fuel filter heater again more heat.

I wonder will that be enough?

YouTookMyName

Petrol in a 75/20/5 Mix.

doctorchopper

We use these on the oil tanks and transmissions of helicopters back in canada in the winters, always had good results with them, you may be able to find a 220 volt one somewhere.
http://oilpanheaterpad.bestautomotivetools.info/cheap-oil-pan-heater-pad-proheat-heavy-duty-fluid-reservoir-heater-model-512csa-250-watts-2-1-amp-120-volts-ideal-for-oil-pans-from-1-to-3-gallon-of-lube-4-5-to-12-litres-and-up-to-10-to-30-ga

Deadly Dave

10% petrol 90% veg oil works well.

Mikko Mallikas

Are you aware of any of these companies
http://www.calix.se/consumer/index.asp?lang=UK
or
http://www.parkingheater.co.uk/products/parking-heater.html
or
http://www.defa.com/en/html/fp/

air

Honestly you'd be better off to run small 5 litre diesel tank and shut down on diesel. Together with the necessary valve (Pollak or similar) it should cost a lot less than the other measures and is guaranteed to work.
A flat plate heat exchanger would also be worth going for as well as some electrical injection line heaters.

argosy2006

Your going to so much trouble, Why not just but a couple of valves and a heat exchanger, Would cost 200 euro tops ,.

sheesh

I would ask your self how much money you are saving by using veg oil over the winter then see how much one of those heater doo-hickeys cost to get put in then make a decision.

Would it be just as cost effective to use regular diesel for a period during the winter rather than buying extra hardware?

€200 buys a not unsubstantial amount of diesel would it see you through the cost of lets say 2-3 winters?

Theanswers

sheesh wrote: »

I would ask your self how much money you are saving by using veg oil over the winter then see how much one of those heater doo-hickeys cost to get put in then make a decision.

Would it be just as cost effective to use regular diesel for a period during the winter rather than buying extra hardware?

€200 buys a not unsubstantial amount of diesel would it see you through the cost of lets say 2-3 winters?

I've bought a device that heats the oil on eBay for 50 euro. I've also spent 80 euro on the preheater, which is good all year around if using veg.

I'm sorry but 200 euro is NOT a large amount of diesel. It would last me 1.5 weeks at the most. It's a Range Rover. Loves the stuff!!

Fill her on veg for next to nothing.

Solnskaya

Theanswers wrote: »

Ok,
I drive a 1996 P38 2.5 RR. I'm running it on 80 veg/ 20 Diesel. I'm also adding a small amount of antifreeze type stuff for vegie to prevent it freezing.

However I'm also install a fuel preheater. Has two glow plugs in it and when the engine is up to temp the coolant from the engine will heat the fuel.

I still however am not happy that this will be sufficient in the really cold weather.

I'm looking at other methods such as a block heater which runs off mains or diesel. This would heat the coolant before I start the car and hopefully make starting easy if it gets really cold. and or a heated fuel filter.

What you guys think?
Thanks

I think, you know more about preventing vegetable oil from freezing when used as a fuel than pretty much anyone else and should probably be giving out advice rather than looking for it:D

sweeney1987

dilute with petrol rather than diesel, in really cold countries its recommendedto dilute the diesel with petrol to stop it freezing;)

Pharaoh1

Theanswers wrote: »

Ok,
I drive a 1996 P38 2.5 RR. I'm running it on 80 veg/ 20 Diesel. I'm also adding a small amount of antifreeze type stuff for vegie to prevent it freezing.

However I'm also install a fuel preheater. Has two glow plugs in it and when the engine is up to temp the coolant from the engine will heat the fuel.

I still however am not happy that this will be sufficient in the really cold weather.

I'm looking at other methods such as a block heater which runs off mains or diesel. This would heat the coolant before I start the car and hopefully make starting easy if it gets really cold. and or a heated fuel filter.

What you guys think?
Thanks

I ran my car on pure veg oil for the last two winters with no problems.
After the really cold nights it was a little sluggish starting so I used to mix in some diesel. It was a proper conversion though with preheater, heated fuel filter and modified heater plugs which took maybe 10 seconds to heat.
System was as you say with the engine coolant kicking in to do the preheating once up to temperature.

Theanswers

Pharaoh1 wrote: »

I ran my car on pure veg oil for the last two winters with no problems.
After the really cold nights it was a little sluggish starting so I used to mix in some diesel. It was a proper conversion though with preheater, heated fuel filter and modified heater plugs which took maybe 10 seconds to heat.
System was as you say with the engine coolant kicking in to do the preheating once up to temperature.

Once the oil is dewatered and mix with some petrol as mentioned by a previous poster do you think It will harm the car?

Some say yes, some say no.

The problem seems to be with Cold oil not fully combusting or something,

I've a flat plate heater to install which will heat the engine oil in the winter.

There's just so many conflicting opionions on the matter.

101sean

Fair play for trying, hope you get it running fine, most guys I've read of burning veg oil it usually do it to older 200/300tdi Land Rovers.

How much is all the extra bits costing you, how does it relate to the cost of buying the plant to make proper bio from WVO (around €1000-1500?)?

Theanswers

101sean wrote: »

Fair play for trying, hope you get it running fine, most guys I've read of burning veg oil it usually do it to older 200/300tdi Land Rovers.

How much is all the extra bits costing you, how does it relate to the cost of buying the plant to make proper bio from WVO (around €1000-1500?)?

Much Less;
I wouldnt put pure veg oil into a newer car though, It just wouldnt last long.

The heat exchanger was 70 Euro, I installed that myself.
The plate heater was 50 Euro, have yet to install that.

Might get myself a heated fuel filter. There around 50 Euro, Will also install that.

That's everything so far. I now add petrol to the mix, much better than diesel as it allows the oil to stay liquid to much lower temps.

I'm thinking of increasing my percentage of petrol to oil ratio to 20/80.
I think this will help with the rough starting.
e.g. It usually starts now no problem, but; Is sluggish so to speak until up to temp.
I think more petrol will help solve this problem.

I usually rev to about 2,000rpm for about 5 seconds to get her started.

Will keep you guys informed. You never know, I may be needing a new engine soon!! ha

However, I do replacing the oil every 3,000 miles just incase thick oil when starting is being forced trough the rings.

So far all works well.

I might however make a second tank and plum it in. It will solve all known problems.

Deadly Dave

You might find that you need to change your fuel filter soon after starting to use veg oil as the oil seems to lift any dirt up from the tank.