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shyirishlad

I am a 32 year old guy who is well-educated and has what is perceived to be a good profession. I would say that I am quite well liked by others and some people even express admiration for some of my qualities and skills.

The problem I have is a seeming inability to click romantically with girls. The truth is that I have never had a girlfriend with the exception of a couple of very short relationships in my mid-teens. I have kissed girls occasionally but it has been when I've tended to be sure they wanted me to kiss them, and even then I seem to have an inability to develop that any further. I am actually pretty embarrassed and ashamed about this.

A few points about me - I am not ugly but did start losing my hair quite young and I am also pretty skinny. I think that on a quite primal level that I am not what girls are looking for physically. I acknowledge that I have some self-esteem issues that are probably rooted in childhood, but even more damaging to my self-esteem is my continued failure at relationships.

With the exception of a couple of very close friends, no-one would have any idea that I have a problem with confidence. I am outgoing enough and am involved in several voluntary organisations through which I have met a fair few people - I don't mean potential dates as such, but I know that people will say to join clubs or get involved in things. I love the work that I do for these groups and being able to give a little back is probably one of the biggest positives in my life. Generally people seem to like me well enough, think I'm good craic and a kind, caring person. I know that not everyone always likes us and that is grand. My humour would not be the most obvious sort with the ready lines but maybe a wee bit dryer and understated. In pubs and clubs I just can't even think of how to initiate a conversation with a girl and particularly in a club where I cannot hear well enough to have a decent conversation. When I look at my closest friendships that are really meaningful and life-affirming they are ones that developed organically and I guess I would love if something similar developed with a girl but in the romantic sense.

I used to think that there was no need to panic - that it would happen some day but I am doubting this more and more. I don't think I come across as desperate or anything like that but the thought that I could be in the same position in 5 years time is too horrible to contemplate. I do feel lonely as more friends settle down and sometimes there is nothing I think would be nicer than a hug at the end of the day. When I see couples together hand in hand I am hit with the sheer beauty of it but also the wish that I had that too.

I went speed dating once a few years ago but got very little interest. I also joined a well-known dating site a few months ago and have had practically no response from anyone I contacted. Neither would I be prepared to simply "settle" for the sake of it as I don't feel that would be particularly respectful, either to myself or to the other party.

I'm not sure what I expect you to say really.

ongarboy

Hi OP,

I'm not sure what advice I can give you really only to suggest you try and view a relationship as something that complements your existing life/lifestyle and enhances the happiness you already have within yourself and not something that fills a void. If you have self esteem, confidence or other issues, being in a relationship will not necessarily resolve those issues. Also, I'm not sure if needing to be in a relationship is conducive to being in a relationship. People who are happy with themselves and are not needy for a partner will invariably be the ones that are most appealing to others and most likely be successful when it comes to meeting potential partners.

You said you have some very close friends. Have you sought honest feedback from them as to what may be holding you back (it may be subtle things that you do not realise but may be obvious to others - perhaps a female friend's input would help).

Hope it works out for you!

Fentdog84

This kind of thing comes up quite often here and i would be able to give you some advice on how to improve your skills to approaching, converse or attract women but that would probably be considered PUA-ish on here which is kind of unfortunate because alot of that stuff does really help guys like in your situation.

All i will say is that you got to know first what kind of person you want to meet as regards looks/personality/income etc and then go after them. Much like any other goal. Also you got to analyze and be willing to change/be flexible with certain aspects of your personality and not be afraid to put yourself forward in social situations and stand out(in a positive way). A just a final food for thought is ask yourself this question. Being the nice, quiet, shy guy in the background. Where has that got you? You got to put yourself out there.And If its not working, you got to change it. Good luck.

karaokeman

I'm in the same boat well barr the part about short-term relationships in teen years, I never had that:(.

All I can say is fare play on having a stable group of friends. I believe this will save you a lot in the long run.

I'm 20, 1st year in college now and I never really fit in in secondary school. Things have changed now and I've thankfully been able to fit in with a stable group of about 7 or 8 of us in my college.

I wasn't going to walk into college with the intention of getting a girlfriend, I've learned the hard way from thinking of it that way. Having a group of friends who understand you and know you well gives you somewhere to go if you're ever feeling down about all this (not having a gf), which happened to me a lot in school.

Also nightclubs aren't the best places for meeting people. A lot of people don't like them believe it or not.

What I would say is this, if you meet a really nice girl at a party sometime and if you think something clicks just go for it. What I mean is if you get talking to a randomer and she likes what you like/ is interested in learning more about you/ is not in a hurry and spends time to get to know you, take it from there. If you have mutual friends even better. In that situation you could maybe ask her if she wants to come with your friends to town, to the pub or whatever and if she doesn't know someone maybe she can tag one of her friends along.

Good luck:)

santana75

Like somebody already said, its difficult to give advice because it may come across like PUA stuff, but I'll give it a go.
If you want to have a romantic relationship with a woman then you have to set that tone from the word go, you have to flirt straight off the bat. A big mistake most blokes make is they start interviewing girls like they were applying for a job. A series of questions does not generate attraction, it generates boredom. You have to talk to her like you want her to be your girlfriend, not like you want to be her friendzone buddy. If you communicate sexual interest it establishes the direction of where you want things to go, and that works likes magic trust me.
The problem as I see it is a lot of men just dont know how to flirt(unless they're drunk and by that stage they come across as eejits). So it feels unnatural or awkward to act in a way thats different to what you're used to. It might feel uncomfortable at first but once you start flirting you'll get the hang of it very quickly and all sorts of changes occur thereafter.
But you have to talk to women you fancy in a fun way, thats the bottom line.

shyirishlad

Hi Guys, thank you all for taking the time to respond and for your advice.

Ongar, I quite agree that there must be other aspects to one's life that are enriching and bring happiness and I think that generally I have many positive aspects for which I am grateful. I would like a relationship but I wouldn't say I NEED one. It is more the consistent failure in this area that is disheartening.

Fentdog and Santana, I don't want to be a PUA - certainly not what I imagine constitutes a PUA. I do agree however, that there is a certain "skill" required that I seem to lack. I wouldn't say I am always the nice shy boy in the background - in many social situations I would not be. But perhaps I do not convey or girls don't look at me in that respect. I probably miss cues at times as well. I do probably make the mistake of talking to them in the wrong manner - though some people would say that you should chat and be interested in what a girl has to say without just seeing her as a conquest.

Karaokeman , well done on your achievements. College seems to have really opened a new social world to you and you can see how good friends can bring so much to your life and you so much to theirs. You are very young and with that attitude will have no problem meeting girls I am sure.

I would be interested to hear a female perspective and feel free to be brutally honest!

LegacyUser

Hey OP,

Well i'm a girl and from my perspective you sound like you have some great qualities-getting involved in volunteering, you have good friends, suggests you're likeable and from the tone of your post it sounds like you are intelligent with a good personality.

So...where does all that leave us?! I just wanted to say, and not just to you op, but to all guys out there, like it or not you can afford to be the more upfront/flirty/call it what you want with women...because its practically expected!! Old-fashioned as it may be, traditionally men make the move. And believe me if i were a man i would be taking full advantage of this simple fact!!

Dont worry so much about looks-we all see the not so hot guys with the cute girls-flirt with women, ask them out. Seriously we love it! And yes men suffer from rejection issues too i know but any women who would rudely turn you down is just that-rude. Bullet dodged in my opinion.

Ps. I'm fairly attractive (modest too ) and I would always find it lovely to be asked out even if i wasnt overly into the guy....so go for it...all of you Irish men out there!!

shellyboo

Have to say what strikes me is how eloquent you are... to me, that's a massive bonus, but I can see how it may come across as a bit uppity or even stand-offish? Personally, a guy that can use his words is a big plus in my book; but some women may be a bit intimidated by it.

I'm not suggesting that you change yourself in any way, but is it possible that your online profile has the same sort of language, and that that language makes you seem a bit inaccessible? Just something to think about. Online dating is absolutely a numbers game, you have to put a lot into it to get a result, but in my experience it's worth it.

Your respect for women comes across in your language and responses here, and while OF COURSE that's brilliant, women aren't going to respond romantically to you being polite and respectful -- they'll feel you're just chatting with them, humouring them, or that you're not interested. This is a very sad state of affairs, I know.

I'm not suggesting you start being a prick (and definitely not suggesting PUA, yuck), but you really need to put across that you're interested. Make it crystal clear that you fancy the girl! There are ways of doing it without being a lech or intruding on her personal space. Something as simple as asking a girl if you can buy her a drink can get the message across.

Lastly, ask your friends to set you up. Yeah, it's embarrassing, but I'm sure they'd love to see you happy with a loving partner; and they're almost certain to know women in the same situation as you who'd love a date. The more practice you get, the more confident you'll be too!

Adamantium

OP, If its confidence issues, Theres a dvd/mp3 seminar called "The Blueprint Decoded", its PUA in a way but its also about how to be your better self.

I know, I know it sounds like a load of crap, it ain't, in fact its amazing, alot of common sense concepts in one sitting. It'll defintley open your eyes

The guy who does will put you off of first but stick with and you'll love it

I'm sure you can get it somewhere

sharper

shellyboo wrote: »

Your respect for women comes across in your language and responses here, and while OF COURSE that's brilliant, women aren't going to respond romantically to you being polite and respectful -- they'll feel you're just chatting with them, humouring them, or that you're not interested. This is a very sad state of affairs, I know.

[...]

There are ways of doing it without being a lech or intruding on her personal space. Something as simple as asking a girl if you can buy her a drink can get the message across.

The problem for someone like the OP is that if you're trying to treat women politely and with respect (because you think that's how people should be treated, not because you're being "nice" to get something) then you have to get to them as individuals to find out what they consider romantic and what they consider sleazy. They all have completely different standards for this and you have no idea what they are upfront.

That act of getting to know them though will invalidate any future romantic approach. So by the time you know someone well enough to know how to approach them they won't accept it.

It's also the case that women will define "romantic" and "sleazy" relative to the amount of attraction they're feeling at the time so Strange Guy#1 will be branded sleazy for offering to buy a drink, Strange Guy#2 will be "sound" and the only difference is how attractive they are.

It's not a problem I've solved and I guess nobody has really has going by the advice offered to the OP so far. Usually a post like this would have advice like "Join some clubs" or "Do some volunteer work and meet people" but he's already doing these things. Now he (and others) are stuck in the situation of having to compromise principles everyone agrees are good and important in order to even have a chance of getting a romantic relationship going.

Yumee

Very true sharper, as a girl finding a lad sleazy or sound is very much relative to how attractive they are. Im sure it works the other way for men too.. An attractive girl making the first move is great, a less attractive girl is desperate! Ive often been asked out in many different ways and the truth is it doesnt matter how/what u suggest (within reason!).. Its basically code for saying im attracted to you and want to get to know you better.. And there is nothing sleazy about that! Anyway best of luck, the dating game isnt easy, it can be full of paranoia and awkwardness but can also be a lot of fun and worth it when you meet the right person, which you will!

shellyboo

sharper wrote: »

[...]



The problem for someone like the OP is that if you're trying to treat women politely and with respect (because you think that's how people should be treated, not because you're being "nice" to get something) then you have to get to them as individuals to find out what they consider romantic and what they consider sleazy. They all have completely different standards for this and you have no idea what they are upfront.

That act of getting to know them though will invalidate any future romantic approach. So by the time you know someone well enough to know how to approach them they won't accept it.

It's also the case that women will define "romantic" and "sleazy" relative to the amount of attraction they're feeling at the time so Strange Guy#1 will be branded sleazy for offering to buy a drink, Strange Guy#2 will be "sound" and the only difference is how attractive they are.

It's not a problem I've solved and I guess nobody has really has going by the advice offered to the OP so far. Usually a post like this would have advice like "Join some clubs" or "Do some volunteer work and meet people" but he's already doing these things. Now he (and others) are stuck in the situation of having to compromise principles everyone agrees are good and important in order to even have a chance of getting a romantic relationship going.

Oh sure, I get that. What I mean is, as a woman, if a nice, polite man comes to talk to me in a bar and we chat about my job, interests blah de blah and he doesn't make some sort of overt move, then I presume he's not interested.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem making a move on a guy I liked, and if a guy I didn't fancy expressed interest in me NICELY (ie, not feeling me up basically) I would very politely decline. That's me, not all women are like that I know. But you have to take that risk. If you don't make it known that you're interested, you have zero chance.

If you DO, you have a chance to meet a nice girl and get a date, meet a nice girl and get nicely rebuffed (which is all practice, and practice makes perfect) or a chance to figure out that the girl you like isn't very nice. Win win. There is no losing in this situation.

I can tell from the OP's post that he has his head screwed on. Once he gets past the initial stages with a woman, he's not going to have trouble maintaining a relationship. He specifically says that he doesn't know how to approach women, and I'm just offering a hint! He doesn't have to 180 his personality... just edge outside his comfort zone a tad and see what happens.

shyirishlad

Thanks again guys for the words of wisdom.

There are very valid points in all of your responses. Shellyboo, I absolutely take your point that I maybe am a little off-putting in my topic or language. I would say that I give out the wrong vibes and probably people probably think that I'm a bit sensible and dare I say it, boring! I think that is because my humour doesn't respond to pressure situations. I've had quite a number of people remark that when they have gotten to know me that I am nothing like they imagined!

The attraction issue is of course a factor. It is true that we can be very forgiving to those who we find attractive - research even suggests that attractive people do better in job interviews and promotion opportunities (ok I promise not to start talking about research to girls in bars ). I do concede that I will have to try harder to have light flirty conversations and I don't think that I need to change who I am as such - there is no point getting someone to like what is not the real you after all!

Another thing that I've had are the girls who I know that get on saying what a fantastic boyfriend I will make for SOMEONE!!! To me that is an example of the dichotomy between what girls say and what they want! Still you give me hope JenKxxx.

Thanks.

ANSI

It's also the case that women will define "romantic" and "sleazy" relative to the amount of attraction they're feeling at the time so Strange Guy#1 will be branded sleazy for offering to buy a drink, Strange Guy#2 will be "sound" and the only difference is how attractive they are.

very true. worked with a girl who would say some guy was "coming on" to her if she did not like him and "chatting her up" if she did

LegacyUser

Hey op, glad u wrote back.

I dont usually respond on boards, I'm obviously not registered either. But there have been a lot of posts lately similar to yours and I think you came across as a really genuine, nice guy so couldn't resist giving the 2cents-for whatever their worth!

You mentioned in your first post about self-esteem. To be honest from what I've seen/experienced people shouldn't underestimate the impact this can have in your life- it effects people in different ways.

I wonder if maybe you could try and improve your view on yourself? You know really try and understand and believe that your good enough for a relationship and that you have a lot to offer. (Apologies if you already think this ) But honestly I think majority of us out there need a bit of help in this area and I do believe our lack of esteem can hold us back, sometimes, in some areas.

Could this be something you could work on?

dellas1979

Am a "lady" so heres my pennys worth:;)

I am really interested to know what your profession is now!

Look, the thing is is that if you are quiet and reserved with ladies, you will get back what you put out there, which is nothing at the moment. Now, there is always the chance that the woman of your dreams will walk over to you/approach you and make all the moves, but chance is slim to none.

So, take every opportunity/chance that you can - even if you are not sure (unless it feels very wrong). The more opportunities you create, the better the odds of meeting someone. So, if you are out tonight, for example, go and talk to a girl, or catch her eye and smile....practice practice practice - something to get you out of your current rut and get your confidence back.

shyirishlad

Sorry for the the delay in getting back - I've been pretty busy lately. You're absolutely right JenKxxx, I do have pretty bad self-esteem which was pointed out to me by a friend. Most people wouldn't know this and would assume that I am accomplished, confident and sociable I think it has held me back a lot in the relationship stakes. It is really only in recent months that I have identified the source of this and am thinking about how I can address it.

You are right Dellas - I need to get over being reserved. I have been out twice in recent weeks and there wasn't really opportunities. Will be out this weekend so who knows!

prickleberry

One thing i've noticed recently amongst all my friends anyway was that the people who were perfectly happy being single and didn't really want a relationships found themselves in relationship before anyone else. I don't quite know what this is about but I suppose if you're more in love with the idea of a relationship than the other person then things aren't going to work too well. I'm 20 and only really getting to love myself. I have had flings like yourself OP but I've more or less been in them for the idea of having someone. What I would say is try and find areas in your daily life where you can get maximum exposure to as many people as possible. For example join a sports club (kayaking, surfing, soccer, whatever), join a society, it can be anything as long as you're meeting new people. It will happen.

dellas1979

shyirishlad wrote: »

I have been out twice in recent weeks and there wasn't really opportunities. Will be out this weekend so who knows!

There are always opportunities. So I dont get you there. You seem quite picky or something on the back of this. There is nothing wrong with getting out there and practicing until miss right comes along!

niallith

im on the same boat really, tho i have a kid from prev relationship(thank god, at this rate i wont b having any more lol) wudnt say im ugly but have v little self confidence, and not the greatest chatter in the world,unless im ina super good mood which isnt often ha.have huge fear of askin women out and almost feel like im doing them all a favour by not even trying? sum people say oh if u just show uve a bit of confidence in yourself itl radiate and theyl pick up on that and itl increase your chances, but me thinks maybe im right to have no self confidence?maybe i am ugly and shud accept that im sumwat doomed? which is pretty much wat ive done now,(and sorry to women who say looks dont matter, but they obviously do.. while i wud same im a bit quiet, i do talk a fair bit,jus maybe sumtimes a bit uncomfortably? i think im a really nice guy and women always complanin bout the mount of assholes in the world yet they all just overlook me...