Two dead at the Philly marathon

Bruncvik

2 men died of heart attacks after running the Philadelphia marathon. One was 21, the other 40 - neither at an age where you'd assume such problems. Too early to speculate, but I'd say they must've done something wrong.

Philadelphia police Officer Jillian Russell, a spokeswoman, says a 21-year-old man collapsed at the finish line. She says a 40-year-old man collapsed about a quarter-mile before the finish line. Russell says both were taken to a hospital, where they were pronounced dead.

(source)

ThisRegard

Bruncvik wrote: »

Too early to speculate, but I'd say they must've done something wrong.

That in itself is speculation Not necessarily though, young adults can drop dead at any time due to SAD, edit, thats Sudden Adult Death syndrome, not Seasonal Affective Disorder.

MrThrifty

Bruncvik wrote: »

2 men died of heart attacks after running the Philadelphia marathon. One was 21, the other 40 - neither at an age where you'd assume such problems. Too early to speculate, but I'd say they must've done something wrong. (source)

21 years of age would be within the age range for people affected by sudden cardiac death in young athletes (~16-23), while at the age of 40 it's not uncommon for some underlying unknown heart condition to come to the fore during a marathon etc. Tragic as it it, these sorts of things will always occur unless medical pre-screening of all entrants in marathons is carried out. In terms of speculation, I would not think it likely these runners did anything "wrong" (i.e. that the deaths necessarily caused by inadequate training or drugs etc.). **** happens, that's all.

Bruncvik

I stand corrected. Wasn't aware of those conditions (at least didn't think they'd run a marathon without a previous medical screening), but I'd assume they'd at least feel some warning signs during the race (again, please correct me if I'm wrong in this).

And yes, I was speculating, but didn't go all the way, such as blaming drugs or dehydration

nerraw1111

There's no warning sign, hence the "Sudden" in SAD. It's happened to World class footballers, young GAA players etc.

Do people actually go to their doctors to ask if they can run a marathon? Seems like a waste of €50 to me.

Zuppy

Blaming dehydration would be a laugh (highly unlikely). You would want some serious dehydration to do two runners in one marathon in normal conditions. If dehydration even played a part then only to exaparate an underlying condition. You would need to lose about 7-10% with issues starting for some people at about 5% (if I remember my numbers right).

belcarra

I ran this race yesterday and have to say conditions were perfect really.
When it's your time, it's your time.

robinph

Out of a random population of 30,000 people there will be one or two die each day. The fact that it is still news when those 30,000 people happen to all be running a marathon and one of them dies proves that keeping fit and running marathons is good for you.

Bruncvik

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Do people actually go to their doctors to ask if they can run a marathon? Seems like a waste of €50 to me.

Some of us are old enough to have our full annual checkups. Before my first marathon I mentioned the run to my doctor, and he included certain checks for that as well. No additional cost there.

RoyMcC

robinph wrote: »

Out of a random population of 30,000 people there will be one or two die each day. The fact that it is still news when those 30,000 people happen to all be running a marathon and one of them dies proves that keeping fit and running marathons is good for you.

0.69 per day actually (in the US, source the CIA Handbook) so 0.115 in every four hours, average time to complete a marathon. So your two deaths is 17 times the expected death rate .

But add in all the races that no one dies in....

Sorry, no consolation to the bereaved families.

robinph

RoyMcC wrote: »

0.69 per day actually (in the US, source the CIA Handbook) so 0.115 in every four hours, average time to complete a marathon. So your two deaths is 17 times the expected death rate .

But add in all the races that no one dies in....

You'd need to keep it at the per day stats as if anyone were to unfortunately die within the following 24 hours after completing, it would still be "blamed" on the marathon in the media.

RoyMcC wrote: »

Sorry, no consolation to the bereaved families.

Agreed.

baza1976

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Do people actually go to their doctors to ask if they can run a marathon? Seems like a waste of €50 to me.

Well I spent the money to ask for an ECG. glad I did,as it should up something not right. After further tests with a cardiologist I was found to have what is know as WPWS which can be a cause of SAD.
So I wouldn't say it was a waste of money.

robinph

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Do people actually go to their doctors to ask if they can run a marathon? Seems like a waste of €50 to me.

I tell them I'm running a marathon...they then have to give me the medication and gadgets that I need to do so.

gerard65

When you think of some people who run marathons and really should'nt until they've alot more miles in their legs (and lost a few more pounds), I'm surprised there's not more sudden deaths in marathons. Goes to show just how much the body can take and its not dangerous to your health, well, no more than running for a bus or walking up stairs.

shels4ever

Going on the cdc site the death rate in the us is 803.6 deaths per 100,000 population, going on this if you just sat all the runners that did the marathon in a room for the day you would expect more of the to die. Death rates doing marathons is a lot lower . Maybe we should run one a day just to be safe.

anymore

nerraw1111 wrote: »

There's no warning sign, hence the "Sudden" in SAD. It's happened to World class footballers, young GAA players etc.

Do people actually go to their doctors to ask if they can run a marathon? Seems like a waste of €50 to me.

If you want to run a marathon in france, you have to provide medical certification and the Rome marathon also requires a medical cert unless you are a memebr of a registered running club and you have to provide documentary proof of membership or else it a Medical cert is required.

nerraw1111

Was aware you needed a doctor's cert in France.

Interesting to hear of your experiences. I just presumed (wrongly) a doctor would just give you a very brief once over and off you go. Next time I have a reason to see a doctor, I'll mention it.

anymore

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Was aware you needed a doctor's cert in France.

Interesting to hear of your experiences. I just presumed (wrongly) a doctor would just give you a very brief once over and off you go. Next time I have a reason to see a doctor, I'll mention it.

In the end I decided it was better value to spend the € 50 to join the running club than to spend € 50 to have a doctor sign a letter to say iwas healtty enough to run a marathon - ! problem is if you ask him when you are sick, he might not be able to say you are well enough !

Seres

I have heard loads of people decide to pick up running and aim for the marathon as their first goal race , maybe smaller races would be an option first , baby steps ..... . Less lightly to need a med cert if you have a good few small -med size races under your belt !

911sc

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Was aware you needed a doctor's cert in France.

and a doctor will not give you a cert without ecg if you are 40+.

gerard65

911sc wrote: »

and a doctor will not give you a cert without ecg if you are 40+.

Yet there are many 40+yo's who are alot fitter than 20+yo's.

couerdelion

Bruncvik wrote: »

2 men died of heart attacks after running the Philadelphia marathon. One was 21, the other 40 - neither at an age where you'd assume such problems. Too early to speculate, but I'd say they must've done something wrong. (source)

The 40 yr old was a poster on slowtwitch (US Tri Forum) who had done several Iron distance races with a PB of just over 10 hours and was on for a sub 3 hour marathon. I don't think he'd done much wrong or there were any suspicions over his health.

A0

MrThrifty wrote: »

21 years of age would be within the age range for people affected by sudden cardiac death in young athletes (~16-23), while at the age of 40 it's not uncommon for some underlying unknown heart condition to come to the fore during a marathon etc. Tragic as it it, these sorts of things will always occur unless medical pre-screening of all entrants in marathons is carried out. In terms of speculation, I would not think it likely these runners did anything "wrong" (i.e. that the deaths necessarily caused by inadequate training or drugs etc.). **** happens, that's all.

Wrong. Medical pre-screening will never always prevent these things to happen. ECG traces, medical pre-screening can't always detect abnormal responses.
Medical pre-screening is recommended and can prevent in some cases cardiac arrest or other cardio problems, but ****e can always happen. In some countries, medical pre-screening also "covers" the race organiser back (insurance, etc.).

scholar007

Bruncvik wrote: »

2 men died of heart attacks after running the Philadelphia marathon. One was 21, the other 40 - neither at an age where you'd assume such problems. Too early to speculate, but I'd say they must've done something wrong. (source)

What do you mean by "I'd say they must've done something wrong"?

BobMac104

thats very sad. i just read the tribute thread on that slowtwitch forum. madness and there are people who eat sh1t,smoke lights out and live to 90. you can never tell