Tough question - try answer honestly

abouttobebanned

After reading the thread about the sudden incident I'm prompted to ask the question...are dogs that spend so much time indoors more likely to become territorial and possibly bite than say a dog who has a kennel outside and lives by boundaries?

I know this is a sensitive question and there are a lot of owners here who care deeply about the dogs that share their houses with them.

andreac

No they arent.

Just because a dog lives inside are you saying it doesnt have boundries??

abouttobebanned

It obviously depends on the situation. I have been in some houses where the dog has full run of the place. Upstairs, downstairs, in the bed, on the couch etc.

I'm actually expecting aggressive answers and responses..even though all I've done is ask a question. Some people on this thread are so certain that their darling pet would never harm a fly and the way they treat people on this forum who dare to have a contradictory opinion is very frustrating.

Andrew33

My dog lives in the house, pretty much has the run of the place (but stays off the furniture) and does go nuts at the postman or anyone else who rings the doorbell so yes, he is extremely territorial.
He has a very sweet temperament but I still wouldn't trust him not to bite ( I wouldn't trust any dog not to bite tbh).
There is a yard dog who lives nearby and spends all day everyday in the yard, barking and pushing his metal bowl around a concrete yard and I reckon the poor fella is going slowly mad, I also reckon he's much more likely to bite someone!

I know which style of rearing I prefer, and I'm sure my dog prefers it too.

are you serious

Each and every household has different boundaries for each and every dog...

I've got 2 rotties and I let them both have the run of the house just as you say... downstairs anyway

But biting.. not on your nelly would either of them even attempt it.

TooManyDogs

It depends entirely on how the owner has trained the dog and nothing to do with being inside or outside. Dogs do need bounderies and if the owner has taught bounderies then no problem, problems arise where there aren't bounderies taught. I have 8 dogs in my tiny sitting room at the moment, have done so for years and haven't had a single problem.

Hellrazer

My dog lives in the house--She only leaves for her walks and to do her stuff.

She has never shown one tiny amount of aggression.

Aggression has nothing to do with whether theyre a house dog or not.

kildare.17hmr

iv 4, 2 have the run of the house a cocker and Shih Tzu and 2 live out the back a german shepard and my pointer. The shepard is a guard dog and would not be left alone with the kids, lives in a big run with a house and is walked daily and would be very prtective of the family.

The pointer is big and is allowd in the kitchen when im there, he lives out the back because he is a smelly fecker of a dog and a hunting dog so is hardy and prefers being in his kennel in the garage and having the run of the garden. mad to hunt but not aggressive at all, my 4 yer old plays rough with him sometimes no problems.

The other 2 are pets, the Shih Tzu goes on the school runs for walks and the cocker rarley leaves the house because she is 15 yrs old and usually asleep in the sitting room unless eating or going to the jacks!

all are territorial and bark if someone comes into the garden that they dont know or someone they dont now rings the doorbell

Andrew33

^^^

Do you mean a Shih Tzu?:D

kildare.17hmr

Andrew33 wrote: »

^^^

Do you mean a Shih Tzu?:D

HAHA i did:p

Cherry Blossom

My dog goes wherever suits her in my house other than the two places that are off limits - on top of the tables and in kids bedroom I did the giving and taking away food routine till I was blue in the face, it was repeated with all the kids under supervision until they were blue in the face till it got to the point where she couldn't be bothered with all this nonsense any more and won't approach her food now unless there is no one in the room.

There are different boundaries with everyone in the house as to how she interacts with them, anyone can take toys from her, one of the kids doesn't like her to 'chase' them so she has learned it's unacceptable while she will happily play chase and hide and seek with the others. I did have one issue in the puppy days when she decided one day my mum was no longer allowed in the sitting room and ran back and forward at the door to keep her out (my mum has a bad leg and is not the most agile person in the world and didn't want to be tripped up), however it transpired that the kids were playing cinema and you weren't allowed in without a ticket so it was more than the dog that was refusing her entry, they were all blocking the door :rolleyes:

Spunk84

If a dog bites or acts aggressive then it's the owners fault pure and simple, unless its protecting you or your family members which it sees as a threat. You are the pack leader, you tell the dog how to behave by your body language and this should always be the case. You bring a dog up with rules and consequences then you should never have a problem.

Cherry Blossom

Spunk84 wrote: »

If a dog bites or acts aggressive then it's the owners fault pure and simple, unless its protecting you or your family members which it sees as a threat. You are the pack leader, you tell the dog how to behave by your body language and this should always be the case. You bring a dog up with rules and consequences then you should never have a problem.

I have a different method of communicating to my dog since she's figured out that neither me nor her are wolves and we don't live in a pack in a nordic forest where we have to survive by hunting down our own prey. I use motivation based training, desensitization and a privilege system - you give and take away, much like i'd do with a rabbit, horse, child or anything else. Sometimes I also communicate with her in baby talk, this seems to work well too.

Spunk84

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Spunk84 wrote: »

If a dog bites or acts aggressive then it's the owners fault pure and simple, unless its protecting you or your family members which it sees as a threat. You are the pack leader, you tell the dog how to behave by your body language and this should always be the case. You bring a dog up with rules and consequences then you should never have a problem.

I have a different method of communicating to my dog since she's figured out that neither me nor her are wolves and we don't live in a pack in a nordic forest where we have to survive by hunting down our own prey. I use motivation based training, desensitization and a privilege system - you give and take away, much like i'd do with a rabbit, horse, child or anything else. Sometimes I also communicate with her in baby talk, this seems to work well too.

So what your saying is that if a rabbit bites, you tell it no or take away it carrot and it doesn't do it again ???? Yep love to see you saying "come here poochy poo dont bite the posty wosty man, no you cant O no you cant" LMAO

In reference to you remark about wolves, the same goes with wolves. All packs or animals that instinctively resign to a pack if left alone will always have a "Pack Leader" or Alpha. So you making it clear to your dog that "You" are the Alpha or Pack leader then he will respect and trust you to keep him safe. Alpha dogs will give praise or punishment to other dogs and this is how a dog knows it place. Still LOL at the privilege system

Latatian

It's interesting that you say your experience is that outdoor dogs tend to be less aggressive, because I'd never heard someone saying that- I've heard a few people say it the other way around though (though mostly in regards to chained dogs).

I've noticed that dogs who spend more time with their owners tend to be less likely to be aggressive than dogs who are left alone, particularly if there's lots of interactive time.

I've known two very very aggressive dogs who were outdoor only dogs, and two less aggressive dogs who were indoor dogs. The first two- one couldn't be trusted with strangers at all, if you wanted to cross the gate the dog had to be put into a shed, the other would bite people it disliked without warning (no growling etc) and would not allow them to leave the house. There was a 3rd dog I knew by reputation only (I just saw the scars from its bites, it had been put down before I had a chance to meet it), again an outdoor-only dog. All collie mixes who were kept in kennels outside, though I've known a dog kept like that who was a total pet.


The fourth was 'ordinary' growling and barking at people who came to the house, but the dog would calm down and make friends after the first five minutes, and was anyone's dog once it saw the owners let them in. That one was an indoor dog allowed the run of the beds etc. Same goes for the other indoor dog. Of course this is just totally anectdotal, and I'd put it down to interaction time rather than indoor-outdoor. An indoor dog wouldn't necessarily get more training and interaction than an outdoor dog.

I'd disagree with you when you say that a dog who's kept indoors and is allowed on couches doesn't have boundaries- some of the best-behaved dogs I know are allowed the run of the house. The owner still sets rules and the dog still has to live by them.

They say the biggest correlation with aggression is being owned by a first-time dog owner. Keeping the dog as a guard, spending little or no time with it, not walking it, spaying female dogs or not neutering male dogs etc have all been implicated as well in various studies, though it's not definite.

Cherry Blossom

Spunk84 wrote: »

So what your saying is that if a rabbit bites, you tell it no or take away it carrot and it doesn't do it again ????

Tell me why this theoretical rabbit has bitten me and I'll tell you what I would do although I might have to ponder on it because in 25 years of keeping rabbits I've never been bitten by one, why is that?

Spunk84 wrote: »

Yep love to see you saying "come here poochy poo dont bite the posty wosty man, no you cant O no you cant" LMAO

My dog wouldn't be under any confusion at all if she was told that for biting the postman - it would mean she had done a great job, does it not sound like praise to you?

No matter anyway because my dog has no issues with the postman, she's been desensitised to the principle of people appearing, pushing stuff through the letterbox and then leaving.

Spunk84 wrote: »

In reference to you remark about wolves, the same goes with wolves. All packs or animals that instinctively resign to a pack if left alone will always have a "Pack Leader" or Alpha. So you making it clear to your dog that "You" are the Alpha or Pack leader then he will respect and trust you to keep him safe. Alpha dogs will give praise or punishment to other dogs and this is how a dog knows it place.

LOL
Should I have the very impressionable 7 and 5 year old's that like to copy everything I do so they 'know what they should do with animals when they are bigger' also employ this? Who is my dog going to trust and respect when I am not there?

Spunk84 wrote: »

Still LOL at the privilege system

Right so if she starts digging a hole in the sofa, I shouldn't take away her privilege of being allowed to be on it then? What should I do in that case? She hasn't tried that since she was 4 months old by the way.

kildare.17hmr

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Right so if she starts digging a hole in the sofa, I shouldn't take away her privilege of being allowed to be on it then? What should I do in that case? She hasn't tried that since she was 4 months old by the way.

That doesnt work wth dogs, you need to punish them as soon as they do something wrong, you find the dog ripping the sofa you punish the dog straight away but continue not to let the dog on the sofa? the dog cant put that together it just knows it not allowed on the sofa but doesnt know why

Cherry Blossom

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

That doesnt work wth dogs, you need to punish them as soon as they do something wrong, you find the dog ripping the sofa you punish the dog straight away but continue not to let the dog on the sofa? the dog cant put that together it just knows it not allowed on the sofa but doesnt know why

No you don't continue to not let the dog on the sofa, you remove it for 10 seconds then let it back up, if the ripping up starts again, they get off it again, and repeat for as long as is necessary. Since the dog wants to be on the sofa they very quickly learn that the condition attached to this is to sit on it without ripping it up - hence the 'sofa boundries' have then been established.

kildare.17hmr

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

No you don't continue to not let the dog on the sofa, you remove it for 10 seconds then let it back up, if the ripping up starts again, they get off it again, and repeat for as long as is necessary. Since the dog wants to be on the sofa they very quickly learn that the condition attached to this is to sit on it without ripping it up - hence the 'sofa boundries' have then been established.

Ah rite, The way you discribbed it first i thought you took away the privilage like taking a toy from a kid as punishment

abouttobebanned

Latatian wrote: »

It's interesting that you say your experience is that outdoor dogs tend to be less aggressive, because I'd never heard someone saying that- I've heard a few people say it the other way around though (though mostly in regards to chained dogs).

I've noticed that dogs who spend more time with their owners tend to be less likely to be aggressive than dogs who are left alone, particularly if there's lots of interactive time.

I've known two very very aggressive dogs who were outdoor only dogs, and two less aggressive dogs who were indoor dogs. The first two- one couldn't be trusted with strangers at all, if you wanted to cross the gate the dog had to be put into a shed, the other would bite people it disliked without warning (no growling etc) and would not allow them to leave the house. There was a 3rd dog I knew by reputation only (I just saw the scars from its bites, it had been put down before I had a chance to meet it), again an outdoor-only dog. All collie mixes who were kept in kennels outside, though I've known a dog kept like that who was a total pet.


The fourth was 'ordinary' growling and barking at people who came to the house, but the dog would calm down and make friends after the first five minutes, and was anyone's dog once it saw the owners let them in. That one was an indoor dog allowed the run of the beds etc. Same goes for the other indoor dog. Of course this is just totally anectdotal, and I'd put it down to interaction time rather than indoor-outdoor. An indoor dog wouldn't necessarily get more training and interaction than an outdoor dog.

I'd disagree with you when you say that a dog who's kept indoors and is allowed on couches doesn't have boundaries- some of the best-behaved dogs I know are allowed the run of the house. The owner still sets rules and the dog still has to live by them.

They say the biggest correlation with aggression is being owned by a first-time dog owner. Keeping the dog as a guard, spending little or no time with it, not walking it, spaying female dogs or not neutering male dogs etc have all been implicated as well in various studies, though it's not definite.

Eh...where did I say that outdoor dogs, in my experience are less aggressive. That was a grand post you wrote there but you know you're not allowed to just make up quotes to suit your argument?

Cherry Blossom

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Eh...where did I say that outdoor dogs, in my experience are less aggressive. That was a grand post you wrote there but you know you're not allowed to just make up quotes to suit your argument?

Well you haven't said that but it's reasonable to see how that assumption was made, as the reason you started the thread was to ask are indoor dogs are more aggressive than outdoor dogs, which does seem like a strange question to come away from the other thread with (to me anyway).

are you serious

Could have possibly started a thread "what dogs are most likely to bite?" :eek:

abouttobebanned

Nonsense. I asked the question to spark the debate. There's no bias in the question.

DBB

Spunk84 wrote: »

In reference to you remark about wolves, the same goes with wolves. All packs or animals that instinctively resign to a pack if left alone will always have a "Pack Leader" or Alpha.

Spunk84,
Could you explain please, how do wolves go about asserting their dominion over other pack members?
Do you know what your version of this information is based upon? Is there some sort of observational evidence of how wolves "praise and punish" each other to maintain this hierarchy you're describing?

Latatian

abouttobebanned wrote: »

you know you're not allowed to just make up quotes to suit your argument?

My apologies, I misinterpreted your first post to mean you'd seen a pattern before and was wondering whether others had too:

abouttobebanned wrote: »

are dogs that spend so much time indoors more likely to become territorial and possibly bite than say a dog who has a kennel outside and lives by boundaries?

No big argument intended here (or indeed any making up of quotes), I think it's an interesting idea, and I was just putting forward my experience. I assumed you were looking to see whether there was a connection between the two (aggression and where the dog's kept) so I responded in the same vein.

SingItOut

I believe it can go both ways. Everybody's dog has the capability to bite someone whether they are an indoor dog or not. My black Labrador is a sweetheart around kids, adults, strangers & other animals, his tail never stops wagging! He is mainly an outdoor dog. Never in his almost 5 years with us (been with us since he was a two month old puppy) has he growled or snapped at anything, but that's not to say he could lose the plot some day & snap. It could easily happen to anybodies dog no matter how well trained they are or whatever boundaries they have.

At the moment i'm living with a roomate who has a collie x, and a german shepherd x Rottweiler. Both are kept inside all day long (unfair in my honest opinion) but do get walked, they are both very territorial and the collie barks very aggressively towards anyone who comes into the house. The german shepherd x rottweiler is less aggressive to strangers and stops immediately when told, he just goes with the flow. I do agree somewhat with the post on being the pack leader. Dogs needs to understand they are not in charge, that's not to say use scare tactics obviously :rolleyes:

Morale of my post is I do believe it can go either way and can happen to anybodies dog.

OKeeffer

Dogs belong outside.

To cage them inside a house or apartment is barbaric and cruel. No dog would ever choose to live in this way. It is only in the interests of the owner, not the dog.

Mo60

OKeeffer wrote: »

Dogs belong outside.

To cage them inside a house or apartment is barbaric and cruel. No dog would ever choose to live in this way. It is only in the interests of the owner, not the dog.

I'll have to tell my dogs this next time they start scratching at the door to come inside. At the moment I have 6 dogs curled up asleep beside me, and I don't think they feel its cruel that they are inside.

When they are outside there is no territorial behaviour, and they have never attempted to bite anyone who has called to the house.

JustAThought

Interesting question ! ( and answers!)
I heard that a dog being given unrestricted freedom of the place ( wherever that is) too frequently can lead to territorial-ism. I don't know; but my dog minding lady ( huge garden, big long runs 50 foot+) was having work done the other day & had two guys in. Apparently mine went NUTS at them and this lasted all day; she eventually had to put her on the couch in the house and she calmed down totally and ignored them. Totally unusual for my dog to be in her house: or for her to have two strange men in all day. QED? I don't know; but she said that perhaps the dog now considered the run/space hers and was defending it.
BTW there are always bits and pieces of different people dropping in & out all day there and my dog has never before reacted like this. ( no machinery used!)

...?

Latatian

Possibly defending the person?

I've a dog who could care less about if someone comes into the house or garden, but if someone appears out of nowhere at night, or if someone's acting strangely at night (someone blocked our path back for example) she'll bark at them regardless of whether it's at home or on a walk.

Discostuy

OKeeffer wrote: »

Dogs belong outside.

To cage them inside a house or apartment is barbaric and cruel. No dog would ever choose to live in this way. It is only in the interests of the owner, not the dog.

I'd have to disagree with this. The dog certainly doesnt care if you live in a 20 bedroom mansion or a caravan. They just want to be in your company.

A dog left on its own, only getting a few minutes interaction with humans will tend to adopt some bad problems.

My two have run of the garden all day, but come into the house whenever I am home. They sleep in cosy crates in the kitchen at night.

I could leave the backdoor open all night and give them the choice to go outside whenever they wanted, but I guarentee you they wouldn't venture outside. Why would they?

No dog would choose to stay out in the cold and wet over living indoors. There is also the stress of cats, other dogs barking, house alarms and strange noises. This leads to them being up all night barking, stressed...the same dogs you curse all night for keeping you awake.

Current dogs are not wolves. They are domesicated creatures who require socialisation and some comforts if they are to become healthy, mentally balanced dogs.