Ireland's neutrality?

YoungSoldier

I apologise about all these questions:/

But is Ireland neutral? Can we enter war if we want? And are we going to be joining into a war any time soon?

Thanks.

Geekness1234

YoungSoldier wrote: »

I apologise about all these questions:/

But is Ireland neutral? Can we enter war if we want? And are we going to be joining into a war any time soon?

Thanks.

Neutral=yes.
Can we enter war if we want?=yes but no democratic government would with our current DF.
joining into a war any time soon?=im sure you'd like to join the DF in war time and do your bit (who wouldn't!) but it just won't happen anytime soon.

Your welcome.

Geekness1234

Welcome to boards.ie by the way.

YoungSoldier

Thanks!!

Is there any units in the DF that goes into battle etc?

Geekness1234

YoungSoldier wrote: »

Thanks!!

Is there any units in the DF that goes into battle etc?

There are about 600 deployed oversees at any time.
200 in Lebanon.
400 in Chad.
They don't do much fighting, mostly patrols and PR.

Fratton Fred

Ireland isn't neutral. It is not aligned with anyone, but it isn't neutral.

Maybe_Memories

YoungSoldier wrote: »

Thanks!!

Is there any units in the DF that goes into battle etc?

A mate of mine put it like this:

"If you're looking for the "Call of Duty experience" then the ARW is perfect. Lots of crawling around in ghillie suits, jumping out of aircraft and assaulting high-jacked aircraft with the added bonus that you more than likely wont ever end up in a situation where you get shot at by bad guys. The drawback being that all the cool stuff are just drills."


Don't shoot the messanger here, guys.

amurph0

Geekness1234 wrote: »

There are about 600 deployed oversees at any time.
200 in Lebanon.
400 in Chad.
They don't do much fighting, mostly patrols and PR.

The mission in Chad ended over a year ago......

105Bn has recently just been deployed to the Leb.

There are about 450 in Lebanon. And various other small deployments (observers, specialists, etc) across the world, including a commitment of about 7 in Afghanistan.

amurph0

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

A mate of mine put it like this:

"If you're looking for the "Call of Duty experience" then the ARW is perfect. Lots of crawling around in ghillie suits, jumping out of aircraft and assaulting high-jacked aircraft with the added bonus that you more than likely wont ever end up in a situation where you get shot at by bad guys. The drawback being that all the cool stuff are just drills."


Don't shoot the messanger here, guys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niemba

http://www.military.ie/overseas/past-missions/unmil

Among many similar operations carried out during their deployment the ARW personnel received a high degree of media attention for their freeing of 37 civilians who were being held by armed elements in a 20ft container in Yekepa. This particular operation led to the arrest of 10 of the armed elements.

I'm not saying it happens often, but that doesn't mean it never happens...

xflyer

No we're not neutral, we're non aligned as Fratton Fred said. A lot of people, ignorant of the facts think we're neutral. But we're not despite this fantasy being maintained for years by politicians who are just as ignorant of the realities as a lot of other people.

We can enter a war, in fact we are in a war sort of. There are some Irish soldiers in Afghanistan, not actually in combat but they're there.

Realistically though Irish soldiers won't be involved in a shooting war unless they are attacked on UN service.

YoungSoldier

This might sound ridiculous, but I think the army should set up a unit like the ARW but a lot harder(such as SAS training) for actually entering war?

amurph0

YoungSoldier wrote: »

This might sound ridiculous, but I think the army should set up a unit like the ARW but a lot harder(such as SAS training) for actually entering war?

Poccington

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

A mate of mine put it like this:

"If you're looking for the "Call of Duty experience" then the ARW is perfect. Lots of crawling around in ghillie suits, jumping out of aircraft and assaulting high-jacked aircraft with the added bonus that you more than likely wont ever end up in a situation where you get shot at by bad guys. The drawback being that all the cool stuff are just drills."


Don't shoot the messanger here, guys.

Someone should have told the lads that before they went to Somalia or Timor.

YoungSoldier wrote: »

This might sound ridiculous, but I think the army should set up a unit like the ARW but a lot harder(such as SAS training) for actually entering war?

Here's what I think.

I think you have no idea about the ARW or it's capabilities.

Morpheus

"a mate of mine"

"like the SAS"

sweet dear divine loving jesus...

read all you can about the irish army AND the ARW and the training they do and deployments that they undertake, and tell your mate to stop talking through the wrong orifice.

by the way - forgive the size, but the ill informed masses on the military forum are REALLY starting to get to me... for all of you who think so...

WE AREN'T NEUTRAL - READ THE CONSTITUTION

dodgydes

Morphéus wrote: »

..

WE ARENT NEUTRAL - READ THE CONSTITUTION

*AREN'T

ex_infantry man

the roll of the irish defence forces is peace keeping i.e. lebanon,kosovo but there was the mission in liberia where the defence forces had to be peace enforcers because there was nine year olds goin around high on drugs carrying ak47,s shooting the place up

Gee Bag

Morphéus wrote: »

"WE AREN'T NEUTRAL - READ THE CONSTITUTION

There is no exact definition of neutrality in International Law. Constitutional neutrality is just one of the many forms neutrality. Every neutral country defines neutrality in their own pragmatic way influenced by their own history and current circumstances. Ireland defines neutrality as non-membership of defensive alliances. This is as valid in form as that of any other state.

Our neutrality is recognised by most citizens of the state and all nation with seats at the UN.

Irish Neutrality is not enshrined in the constitution. The reason for this is because our constitution was drafted in 1937 when the threat of invasion was a real possibility.

Our constitution is not the sole source of state policy and law. The constitution is not meant to be read in completley literal fashion. Thats why we have referenda and supreme court cases based on principles of constitutional law.

It was held in the Supreme Court in Horgan V Ireland [2003] (re US military using Shannon) that sole power to decide Ireland's involvement in military action is vested solely in the Oireachtas.

There was a big kerfuffle after we rejected the first Nice treaty referendum partly on the basis of fears that the treaty would compromise Irish neutraility. Therefore article 29.4.9 was inserted by referendum. It states;

"The state shall not adopt a decision taken by the European Council to establish a common defence pursuant to Article 1.2 of the Treaty referred to in subsection 7˙of this section where that common defence would include the state.”

Basically this means that we constitutionally opted out of any common EU defensive pact.

Morpheus

And ill stick to my argument, that definition can be read two ways, IMO we still aren't a neutral state. we have a unique situation though, one enshrined by successive governments and a blind people (for the most part) who think we are the very epitome of international neutrality.

We are probably lucky not to be neutral truly, as to do so would require the capability to protect our borders and all vested interests which lie within them... something that i doubt we will ever possess.

amurph0

ex_infantry man wrote: »

the roll of the irish defence forces is peace keeping i.e. lebanon,kosovo but there was the mission in liberia where the defence forces had to be peace enforcers because there was nine year olds goin around high on drugs carrying ak47,s shooting the place up

The published roles of the Defence Forces does not distinguish between "Peace Keeping" OR "Peace Enforcement". It says "Peace Support", which can be both.

Also peace support is not the only role of the Defence Forces.

Roles of the Defence Forces

• To participate in multinational peace support, crisis management and humanitarian relief operations in support of the United Nations and under UN mandate, including regional security missions authorised by the UN.

Gee Bag

Morphéus wrote: »

And ill stick to my argument, that definition can be read two ways, IMO we still aren't a neutral state. we have a unique situation though, one enshrined by successive governments and a blind people (for the most part) who think we are the very epitome of international neutrality.

We are probably lucky not to be neutral truly, as to do so would require the capability to protect our borders and all vested interests which lie within them... something that i doubt we will ever possess.

I agree with you that we definitley aren't black and white on the neutrality issue. At best we like to keep it a light shade of grey. In all honesty despite the bleeting about neutrality every time we have an EU referendum we all know who our loyalties lie with.

Simtech

ex_infantry man wrote: »

the roll of the irish defence forces is peace keeping i.e. lebanon,kosovo but there was the mission in liberia where the defence forces had to be peace enforcers because there was nine year olds goin around high on drugs carrying ak47,s shooting the place up

Kosovo was peace enforcement aswell, have a NATO medal out of that one. Neutrality is definitely a grey area.

dodgydes

TChad was an EU mission for the first year or so (commanded by an Irish BrigGen) before changing to a full UN mission